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Jedi_Knight #2708525 02/26/13 12:15 AM
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I think it is more a freeloader relationship than a renter one.

If they do make it.......it is because the other person has something to give them that makes the freeloading worth while.

They stay as long as they can freeload ideas, money and or emotional needs being met.







reading #2708532 02/26/13 01:41 AM
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All the above are true. I also believe the WS stay out of pride and stubbornness. Plus, they would look foolish if the affariage ends so they stick with the AP out of fear of being judged and pretend everything is all good when its not. Mehr I know I'm not the best person to say this because I haven't been in your shoes but I would ignore and keep it moving. Your better then her and him put together. Focus on the good in your life and let them loath and hate each other behind close doors. I have a friend who has four kids outside of his marriage and lives with his affair partner. He's miserable and recently told me be loves his kids but if he could turn the clock back he wouldn't of left his wife for his AP. I told him I don't feel sorry for you because I tried to warn you and be understood.

Darkguy #2708560 02/26/13 09:33 AM
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Have you heard these clips on affairages?
Affairage Radio Clips


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2708561 02/26/13 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you heard these clips on affairages?
Affairage Radio Clips
Also this.
Affairages- A Must Read:Dr. Harley Himself Posted


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



mehr #2708608 02/26/13 12:11 PM
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These are the defects for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally proud of their new marriage.

LINK to "Gift to unfaithful lurkers" thread


mehr #2708609 02/26/13 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mehr
Irony of ironies, in the exact spot where our family picture used to hang the OW has put up some of those word decals. It reads "Family ... a journey to forever."

rotflmao

When an adulterous woman moves into the same home the betrayed X-wife used to reside in .... the adulteress must pretend the X-W never lived there. That takes a lot of wand-waving. crazy

Next time you see anything like this, force yourself to burst out laughing. I promise you will feel better.


Pepperband #2708637 02/26/13 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by mehr
Irony of ironies, in the exact spot where our family picture used to hang the OW has put up some of those word decals. It reads "Family ... a journey to forever."

rotflmao

When an adulterous woman moves into the same home the betrayed X-wife used to reside in .... the adulteress must pretend the X-W never lived there. That takes a lot of wand-waving. crazy

Next time you see anything like this, force yourself to burst out laughing. I promise you will feel better.


Seriously, I was just speechless.

Now its like.... I can't decide if they are trying to compensate for just how *untrue* that is, or if she really still believes she wasn't the cause of the end of his marriage, that it really was because I was a bad wife and he was about to leave me anyway.


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

BrainHurts #2708641 02/26/13 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you heard these clips on affairages?
Affairage Radio Clips

Listening now.

I'd like to find one where there's a slew of young kids involved. We've got quite the tangled web here, skanky has 3 young kids and they've accepted my ex as their dad basically. That entangles the situation.

Meanwhile my kids don't see him much and though they love him (I guess) there seems to be some resistance as well. When my oldest two make things at school, I never see art for their dad except when its been obvious they told them to make one for mom and one for dad. I probably get 20 pictures and crafts that say "I love you mom" and "I love my mom because she is always there with me" before I see dad even mentioned.

Last edited by mehr; 02/26/13 02:12 PM.

Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

mehr #2708690 02/26/13 07:02 PM
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Quote
We've got quite the tangled web here, skanky has 3 young kids and they've accepted my ex as their dad basically. That entangles the situation.

Meanwhile my kids don't see him much and though they love him (I guess) there seems to be some resistance as well.

That my friend is what we call cruel beyond the bone ... it is our job as parents to teach our children that this siuation is not normal, they NEVER EVER have to accept it, and these horrid cruel people have no place in the hearts of those who have kind hearts and innocent spirits.

My4Loves #2708747 02/27/13 04:54 AM
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mehr

relationships that start with lies... deceit and selfishness .. well yes they can last..... but rarely are they happy and fulfilling....at least for "normal" people. At the least I have never seen one but I suppose its statistically possible.

perhaps people in such arrangements no longer have or expect fulfilling and loving (as most people want and desire ) relationships?

Perhaps they have no idea of what one is?

Perhaps they just settle for what they have because being alone together is less fearful than just alone?

Frankly I'd put money on a breakup within the next 5 to 7 years

I would recommend you distance yourself from the ho hum drama for your sanity and peace of mind. You dont deserve the pain this crap gives you.

take care

AW


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

aussieswife #2709170 02/28/13 01:41 PM
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So I can't listen to other radio archives without being a member?


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

mehr #2709172 02/28/13 01:45 PM
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Aw that's too bad, I just wanted to see if he said anything else on this subject. I shouldn't spend money right now I am a poor single mom. wink


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

Pepperband #2709496 03/01/13 01:40 PM
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I can really speak to this from my own personal experience with my XWH marrying the OW PP.


Originally Posted by Pepperband
These are the defects for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
My EWH affairaged with PP on 10-10-10 (oh how cute) in Vegas of course. He rushed into this to prove to the world that this was the right thing to do. he even invited a few coworkers to attend (they didn't) which was awkward for everyone since we all work for the same company ...still

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.
The blush is off the rose. XH does not see his adult DDs, or any of our family or speak to anyone. it is because he knows he is guilty that he avoids the world
3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

XH went bankrupt (my fault of course), takes at least 2 to 3 trips to Vegas every year to keep the affairage partner happy and show the world they are happy, he lost his house, finances, property lot (which I have have) Life is good if you are a wayward but I think they just try and prove it to themselves because no one thinks otherwise. It is all a sham.
4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

[color:#FF0000} After 2 years of affairage this is what they are feeling now. They are not special, she is an ordinary 3x M cheater and you threw away your life for. He aged at least 10 years and is bloated and sickly (from the drinking). If this is your exciting life you are the only one who sees it. [/color]


5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

[color:#FF0000] if they cheated with you they will cheat on you. She is very jealous and insecure � how is that going for ya? [/color]


6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

They are on the same level as pond scum. Since we all still work here out of maybe 100 people scattered through a military installation it is interesting when new people start and ask why there are 3 �same names� so I say I was the marriage and PP was the affairage. I have nothing to hide.


7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

XH gave up everyone. He blames me for his DD not wanting to see him. Maybe he should have tried but because of his own guilt he avoids. Very typical. In the last 4 years he has seen DD19 maybe 6 times..He missed her sweet 16 party, at graduation from high school he sat in the nosebleed seat my himself, every major event in her life. PP only wants him involved in her family. I can see the cracks happening. He has drunk dialed/text our DD a few times about seeing him and slurred messages telling her he loves her. I think he is starting to realize that everything will not be �fine��you know the mind of a wayward to convince himself everyone will be just �fine�


8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.
They are both bringing their damaged concepts to this �romantic disaster� based on fantasy.


9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.
PP never wanted to remarry but did because she was in �love� and it just happened. Of course she never broke up the M and had nothing to do with it. Wink wink


10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

It is unfortunate that they affairaged because I think they feel they are stuck and will stay together. PP is older and can�t find another sugar daddy. They look like 2 miserable people..


11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

XH rescued PP and she thought he was her hero. (he was her boss and she was just a lousy employee. It was a high for her to do what she wanted because she was sleeping with her boss. Well he was demoted and they work together and then go home together. That has got to be exciting and romantic. NOT.



12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally proud of their new marriage.
We have 25 years of dating and M. Not something you could easily wipe out. How will they tell their story to her grandkids? It will be a lie like this whole A. They can�t even get away from it at work because everyone knows what happened and they can�t sugar coat it because I will be happy to correct anybody on some story they spin. I am just waiting for the day to pull up my chair, get a bag of popcorn and watch the show when they implode. I can�t see them being one of the 3%

LINK to "Gift to unfaithful lurkers" thread

Last edited by hope3343; 03/01/13 01:42 PM.

Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
hope3343 #2709667 03/02/13 03:02 AM
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Hope I am saddened and happy to read your post on this. Saddened because this happens to you and has the potential to happen to my WW. Happy because it seems you moved on and followed the program as it was written. Stories like this make me want to apologize on the behalf of my gender. I wish my WW could read your post with a non foggy mind and realizes soulmates don't exist and happiness cannot come from immoral decisions, disjointed values, and dishonesty! Fine example of a good wife, mother, and woman. Good luck to you in life!

Darkguy #2709738 03/02/13 02:47 PM
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Thanks for sharing your story Hope. I hope I have a story sometime but I don't know. If I go back far enough in my thread it baffles me all the ways he had compared me favorably to start. But I don't really see or hear much if what happens anymore. I hope they split sometime but they're about to buy a house together and that's the only hint I have that things must be well.


Married 1/2000.
D-Day 3/7/11. WH moved in with OW and they married in 2013.
Single mom of 4.

mehr #2709761 03/02/13 06:15 PM
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Think I was listening to a clip of Dr. Harley's posted somewhere where he says he knows of one man, who is happy in his affairage, in the history of his practice. But he says that even that man confided to him saying that if he could do it over again, he wouldn't have an affairage. And as Dr. Harley said, for that guy who was having a good affairage to state his regret inspite of that, says a lot.

ETA: Probably the clips BH posted above. Thanks Brainy!

Last edited by BetrayedP; 03/02/13 06:16 PM.

Me BW: 30
WH: 33
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