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Originally Posted by downnout
That is where I draw the line, telling my kids. One just turned 7 the other 5 a few months ago. They would have zero comprehension of whats happening. Doing that to them is NOT right. Someone has to agree with my discretion on this� if the kids are ever told, it will be in the company of a trusted professional or spiritual leader, with their father present.
You are underestimating your children's ability to comprehend the truth. Children their age have a unique ability to sense tension in their home. If they are not told the truth about what is happening in their family they will likely assume that they have done something to cause the tension. You must disabuse them of this notion, post-haste.

When children are your kids' ages, they realize that they are entirely dependent upon their parents for their very lives. They may well sense a threat to themselves because of the tension in your home. You need to tell them the truth and reassure them that you will never leave them and will always be there for them. Their WW is not showing such a commitment to them at this point.

Telling them the truth is a kindness.


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Shotgun out some answers�

As for custody, I had a marriage separation agreement drafted when she left.

We both signed, notarized the following agreement; 5,2,2,5 parenting plan. No child support. No alimony. I keep 401K she keeps her business. I keep the home. Kids go to school a block away. Kids are to remain in same school for no less than on year. I pay half of all child care. I continue kids health/dental insurance, like that would ever be optional to a father. I maintain her health/dental 30 days after divorce. No other debts/property issues.

Affairs have no legal grounds for custody disputes or divorce cases in my state. If he�s dangerous then yes, I have options. As far as I can tell, OM has never met the children. To be quite honest I don�t think WW wants them to meet the OM. That would dampen their mojo.

She has already filed for divorce, the marriage separation agreement stands.

Many people tell me to be happy with this outcome and move along, and I guess when I�m able to see it in big picture format, I will be able to agree. For now, as some say, in the fog of it all.

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MelodyLane,
the thing is, I dont know what shes telling them. I could assume things, or ask the children, which I have. Response from oldest; mommy and daddy are not getting along, momma is never going back to our house.
I left it at that. I could not continue the conversation...

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Originally Posted by downnout
MelodyLane,
the thing is, I dont know what shes telling them. I could assume things, or ask the children, which I have. Response from oldest; mommy and daddy are not getting along, momma is never going back to our house.
I left it at that. I could not continue the conversation...

The thing is, she has been allowed to lie to them, which is a disgrace. Your children deserve much better. Lies and illusions do not make children happy or secure. It makes them confused and insecure. It teaches them to doubt their instincts about right and wrong.

Lying to them about the source of your breakup helps no one. It hurts your wife, you, and your children.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by downnout
mommy and daddy are not getting along,

Just think of what this teaches your children. That marriage is so disposable that you just throw it away when you don't get along. You are teaching your kids that marriage is cheap and disposable when you tell them you will destroy their lives because you "don't get along."

Will you or your wife leave them too if they don't get along with you? Is that how life really works? When you "dont' get along" with someone, you cut them out of your life? What if they don't get along with their teacher or a classmate?

They should be taught if someone doesn't get along, they should work to overcome that. That marriages and families break up over serious, grave issues like adultery and not just because they "don't get along."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Please don�t think I am debating your input, but in the matter of my children, �slow to speak� is my stance. They are all I have now. This decision needs to have time, thought and mostly prayer.

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You love your children.

You don't want to hurt them or cause them pain.

We understand that.

If you realize it really IS best to tell them what is going on.....do it simply and factually and do not resort to referring to mom in a derogatory or self righteous way. They love her.

If you tell them, they will cry. They will be upset. They will wonder why their mom didn't care enough about the family to protect it from harm.

That is tough stuff for children of all ages.

But, it is what it is............a horrible mess made by the woman you love. Horrible.

You are going to wind up having to do some things that seem counterintuitive as a husband and a father to give the family the best positioning for a future of openness and honesty and respect.

(we know it sucks.)







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Your last post is on point, I had the EXACT same conversation with WW. Her giving up is teaching our children that it�s ok to walk away when things don�t go your way�

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Originally Posted by downnout
Your last post is on point, I had the EXACT same conversation with WW. Her giving up is teaching our children that it�s ok to walk away when things don�t go your way�

Down, I am the child of a serial cheater. My mother lied to me about the cause of the breakup of my family. I remember her sitting on the edge of her bed sobbing. I will never forget that. [I was age 4] And I do resent her for not telling us the truth and giving us moral guidance. We were left on our own to figure it out. THAT is a parents job to teach kids, btw. They aren't supposed to have to figure it out on their own.

What she didn't understand is that my father was teaching me that wrong is right. Unbeknownst to my silent mother, he had introduced me to his OW. He told me derogatory things about my mother. I sensed there was something very wrong with the presence of this "friend" but since no adult validated my instincts, I learned that I must be a very stupid girl. Obviously what seemed wrong to me was not wrong to adults. I grew up profoundly confused because nothing made any sense. I learned I could not rely on my instincts of right and wrong so I couldn't figure out what was right and what was wrong.

I was also taught that when you are not happy in a marriage, you find something better and move along. I had that attitude well into my 40's. Most of the kids in my family have been married multiple times and most have had affairs.

This is the kind of thing your kids are being taught right now.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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However it comes about, telling my children, I firmly agree it needs to be in the presence of a professional. Conversations with children have a funny way of going in directions at this age. I don�t feel adequately prepared for some of the things I may have to answer, or be able to navigate in a way that keeps my personal feelings in check. I know what my capabilities are/are not, I�m probably like every other father; to the point, give the facts, fix what�s broken, next subject.

Not to mention the fallout from WW when the kids ask why she left dad for OM. I can hear it now �I can�t believe you told them, you�re not thinking clearly, I�m going to file a (whatever) and stop this nonsense. Your frame of mind is not capable of taking care of our children.�

If it�s done in a professional format, WW can say nothing about it. I do have family counseling (me/kids) scheduled in the near future. I will bring it up with counselor and go from there.

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Originally Posted by downnout
However it comes about, telling my children, I firmly agree it needs to be in the presence of a professional.

That is your job as a parent. Putting this off on someone else is conflict avoidance. And is disgraceful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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How is a counselor more qualified to speak to your own children more than YOU? You are the one who loves them, NOT a counselor. There is no counselor who cares for your children like you do. They need to hear the truth from YOU, their father. That is your job.

You are perfectly qualified and capable to tell your children the truth about their lives. That duty should not be abrogated to someone who does not care about your children. That is your responsibility.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by downnout
Not to mention the fallout from WW when the kids ask why she left dad for OM. I can hear it now �I can�t believe you told them, you�re not thinking clearly, I�m going to file a (whatever) and stop this nonsense. Your frame of mind is not capable of taking care of our children.�

How will you explain this excuse to your children when they eventually find out the truth? Sorry kids, but I was scared of angering your wayward mother?

Sorry, but that is a pisspoor excuse to lie to your kids.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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You are letting fear of retaliation by your wife guide you.

A counselor may, for all you know, be a wayward themself and color the situation in a way you would not like.

Just know that telling the children factually and privately (without mother present to justify her actions) is best and least painful for the little ones.

Prepare to be their rock to lean on. Whether you like it or not, you are going to be in this situation for the foreseeable future.







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Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, explains in this radio clip how to tell children about the affair: click here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by downnout
However it comes about, telling my children, I firmly agree it needs to be in the presence of a professional.

That is your job as a parent. Putting this off on someone else is conflict avoidance. And is disgraceful.

They NEED to hear it from you...not some stranger, albeit a professional.

It's pretty simple when you think about it.
You put it in age appropriate terms.

You aren't going to say "Mommy is an adulterer".

You are going to say..

"Mommy is married to Daddy, and she has a boyfriend. It isn't right to have a boyfriend when you are married".

It is much like when you teach them to NOT steal...or to NOT shove someone down...or to NOT call people names.. because it isn't RIGHT.

You can tell a child almost anything as long as it is age appropriate verbiage.

I had to tell a 3 year old that her Daddy had been killed in an accident. I didn't have the pediatrican to do it..or a counselor/therapist.

I told her..."Daddy fell and hurt his body...and his body is now broken and doesn't work."

Did she ask me other questions...yes. I dealt with each one as it was asked.

You CAN do it. You have to MAN UP and just do it.

committed

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During ball practice my son noted that mom had a new friend over� I asked oh yea, when did you meet him? He said, oh he was there yesterday morning when you dropped us off at moms. And he came over last night too, he has a silver mustang and I got to take a ride in it. I called WW right then and asked her to please use some discretion in introducing our children to other men. She said it was my fault for dropping them off so early the previous morning. Ridiculous� apparently shes got more than one on the hook. I pulled both boys off the field right then and there, sat them down and told them �your mom is still married to me and shouldn�t be involved with other men. Your mom should not allow you boys or your baby sister to be around them.� I am so disgusted with WW right now.

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sent to MIL:

Dear MIL,

Thank you for your email. I am sorry I have offended you with my actions. I need to be very clear here, this was not done out of malice, or to hurt anyone, but to expose her and OM's relationship for what it is, an affair. Period. I don�t wish to get into some long drawn out e-mail but I will speak my peace on this matter.

I won�t reply to your notes of my shortcomings as a husband, they are just that, shortcomings. I also won�t comment on your notes about me basically being a worthless father. Nothing could be further from the truth and you know it. Sorry you feel that way about me.

I guess we are both saddened. I am saddened that WW and I did not get more support from the number one person in her life. I tried to tell you what was going on in our marriage many times. On a number of occasions I texted you about what WW was doing, who she was seeing, as a matter of fact I even texted you the night I found them in a wallgreens parking lot. What a sight to see. No reply from you.

I also called you the day I bumped into her and OM having dinner, just glad my kid�s weren�t tall enough to see through the window. When I called you about it, you said; accept that this marriage is over, it is what it is� Well if that�s the advice you have offered WW during this time of craziness, then thanks for your support. If you feel that I have crossed the line by exposing WW and OM, well I am truly sorry. Some lines need to be crossed, in order to save another.

You are correct that:

According to I Corinthians 13:4: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always perseveres."

I tried my best to practice these attributes, but your giving me scripture to follow that is virtually impossible for anyone that is being betrayed by an affair. As you can also attest, pretty darn hard to do even 10 years after an affair. I know you and WW would like to think this marriage is over, as she said, married on paper. Well I can assure you God doesn�t see it that way. Her relationship with this former lover is sinful, plain and simple.

I preserved her in the first affair, and to be quite honest you never recognized me in doing that. I guess I should just sit back and let it go right? The first affair was tuff and it took its toll on me MIL, to the point of destruction. No counseling, no one to talk to about it, nothing� just tried to do the best I could do. And failed miserably I might add, turned to the wrong things and allowed bitterness to grow. Never changed the fact that I loved her in my heart, but I was always so afraid of completely giving her my all, as if I had to hold on to my heart, just in case� so yes I failed in loving her the way I should of.

Maybe WW should have been given this same kind of e-mail advice that you sent me, after I had became aware of my faults and decided to turn around. As you stated; Love is patient, always hopes, keeps no record of wrongs, and then added; love DOES NOT fall into the arms of another man. Love DOES NOT walk away because it�s tired�

Since we are talking scripture here, the Bible is also very clear that sin should be exposed, especially when a person thinks they are doing no wrong: Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

I know the apostle Paul did not mean to go around throwing people under the bus, but what I think he�s saying here is that we are to avoid any pleasure or activity�s that result in sin, and to go even a step further. He is instructing us to expose those deeds because our silence may be interpreted as approval. Such as WW relationship with OM. We need to speak out for what is true and right. The email I sent out was not malicious in nature, or a �plea� for WW to come back, that�s not what this is about.

It�s about getting her to realize that leaving a marriage for another person, or any other reason other than out lined in the Bible is sinful. I have not cheated on her, nor have I ever. I am not an unbelieving spouse that abandoned her. I will admit, wasn�t always close to the Lord as I should of been, but I am certainly not an unbeliever. So where is your justification in speaking for her, and God, that this marriage is over and ALL chances are lost in reconciling this marriage and family? Where is your justification in that claim?

I guess you would rather see her live in sin, with another man. That must be easier than taking a stand for your daughter and ask her to work on her broken marriage. The only marriage that God will recognize by the way. That�s something to remember, I did not seek a divorce from her, nor did I give her any biblical reason for a divorce. If she ultimately remarries, that is not a marriage union in Gods eyes. I can�t speak for God obviously, just noting what�s in His word. Why do you think I have held hope after every discovery? Why do you think I have offered her forgiveness and understanding repeatedly? Why do you think I got upset when she couldn�t admit to what she was doing, even after I confronted them? Because I believe I have to, to keep her from going down a road of spiritual destruction. I believe her soul is worth it, I believe she is worth it.

And yes, you are absolutely right that I have made many mistakes in this marriage. I am doing my best to turn that around and have worked very hard to be a better husband and father. I love my wife and I am hoping that by bringing her affair out into the open that someone who actually cares about her is able to get through to her. I am trying to save WW and this family, we all need your help.

I hope you will support our marriage for the sake of WW and our children, if not for me. I know you love your grandchildren and they will be devastated if their mother leaves to pursue this affair.

All of my love, BS



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Originally Posted by downnout
During ball practice my son noted that mom had a new friend over� I asked oh yea, when did you meet him? He said, oh he was there yesterday morning when you dropped us off at moms. And he came over last night too, he has a silver mustang and I got to take a ride in it. I called WW right then and asked her to please use some discretion in introducing our children to other men. She said it was my fault for dropping them off so early the previous morning. Ridiculous� apparently shes got more than one on the hook. I pulled both boys off the field right then and there, sat them down and told them �your mom is still married to me and shouldn�t be involved with other men. Your mom should not allow you boys or your baby sister to be around them.� I am so disgusted with WW right now.
Good job.

Now you see the importance of telling the children?

Do you have anything in your separation agreement about not introducing your children to Other men?

Did your sons understand that it isn't right for mommy a married woman not to have other boyfriends other than daddy?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I think they did, I got emotional, not crying but had a hard time gettin the words out.

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