WHAT IS WITH GUYS??? You know the scenario: wife decides to have an affair. Husband is totally blindsided.

Off they go to marriage counseling (she's doing counseling to appease him while she's getting her ducks in a row to kick his [censored] out of the house and move OM in, claiming neglect, abuse, blah blah blah) when the real problem is that she is having an affair. The marriage counselor counsels them to separate, of course. No one realizes that the counselor failed their exam in their "real" major and is reduced to their minor in psychology = counselor - the counselor has absolutely NO CLUE how to save a marriage, but they're really, really good at helping distressed couples figure out how to ... okay, I'm not really sure what they help distressed couples figure out.

So anyway: what is with guys, that they will actually MOVE OUT of the house they're paying the mortgage or rent on? And actually leave their kids? What are guys thinking???

And what in the world would cause a man to leave his home and allow another man to be around his children???

Gentlemen, I ask you: please explain to me how in the world this can possibly be. If I were a guy, I would be kicking [censored] all over the place.

Societal/cultural conditioning instituted and managed by the cabal of aggressive femi-nazis and latent homosexual males which jointly constitute the media intelligentsia.

You think I'm kidding?

Watch any show. If there is a family dynamic, the male figure is this feckless, clownish guy with the female figure in charge of all practical services and organization.

Watch any commercial. "Honey, which way is up?" asks the moronic male figure/voice. "Well, according to the Newtonian theory, up is defined by the direction radiating out from the prevailing gravitational body. And don't track mud onto my 18th century silk carpet, stupid!", replies his mate.

Follow the reports of the "so-called" justice decisions. After serving 22 years for brutally murdering three policeemn, Kathy Boudin was released to become a professor of LAW at NYU. Her male co-conspirators are still breaking big rocks into little pieces in some pit!

We're not even immune here! There was a thread about men discussing men's issues here a while back, and I noted that in a run of like 40 posts, only three were from MEN, the remainder being from women correcting them about what men's issues really were! When I pointed this out, I was HAMMERED for being so.....insensitive! I do not remember any "sensitive" female coming to my defense. Worse, the males were so COWED, THEY remained silent as well!!!

So, bit by bit, insidiously yet persistently, the male is displayed and convinced that he is unworthy, and likely to blame for all troubles and problems.

Now, aren't you glad you asked?

I agree with NG.

I agree with Jedi.

For the record, I never moved out. When the A was outed, I told WW that if anyone moved out it would be her.

While NG has the symptoms correct, I believe the real cause is the breakdown of the family. We've allowed women to become men. In fact, we've demanded it. How many families are absent a father. After a couple of generations, we think thats OK, normal even. Men dont know how to become men because there are no REAL men in their lives to show them.

We need to build marriages and families with truth and stop worrying about offending everyone. Jesus was a real man. We can start there

That all sounds about right to me. Goodness knows why but women are actively encouraged to believe they will have to be both father and mother, bacon bringer and bread maker because men are too stooopid to help.

The Christmas ads they ran this past season in the UK were along the lines of: "Mum makes/saves Christmas Day while Dad gibbers in the background in his own drool waiting to be fed turkey".


This attitude just means a lack of POJA, disrespect, abuse and an inevitable day when the woman is REALLY doing it all on her own because she pushed her husband out. A self fulfilling prophecy.

But just because women are sometimes urged to be 100 per cent taker doesn't mean a man ever has to play along and be 100 per cent giver.

MB,

I was this guy! However I moved out for a trial separation because she had me so convinced it was ME! I never knew of the affair.

I was told ILYBNILWY in September and not knowingly planned A my a$$ off until December when she requested a separation. Of course she was in the A the entire time and withdrawing from me daily. I just put my head down and trudged through everything she threw at me to try and prove to her how great I really was.

I plan A'd for a long time until I really started to snoop and then uncovered the A. THEN I was pissed!!! Not really knowing the true carrot and stick method I erupted and exposed to everyone.

I was a typical husband who trusted my wife blindly!!! She was always SO against affairs--even exposed a random guy one time to his wife through a phone call---ironic, I know!

We are taught early on to trust--and trust blindly I may add that I was so damn dumb to never suspect it and thought by me moving out that she would miss me--the old saying---absence makes the heart grow fonder! That is what I truly thought. I absolutely was blindsided--how could she--how could she do this to our kids!

I teach Health at my high school and now I incorporate this into my curriculum--EN's, boundaries, not trusting blindly, etc. Kids listen and hopefully they have absorbed some of the information.

PTH--out!

Yeah I stole that from SI off of Duck Dynasty!

That's a fact, Jack!!

Interestingly, if this (female, of course) scientist is correct, the entire discussion will become moot in five million years, give or take.

Professor NG puts the point at which "effective male extinction" reaches a critical mass much closer - say, August!

I just noticed something tonight. Maybe I am delusional...but maybe there is something here.

I play monster with my kids nightly. I chase them around my house, ROARING, running, carrying them funny, and genuinely laughing.

We have a safe zone they get to run to where the monster can't enter. I go and hide and they come out of the safe zone.

It just dawned on me my sons always stay in the safe zone while my girls get up and run around, tackle me, and get deeply engulfed in the monster play.

Tonight for the first time it made me think ... am I raising some sissy boys ... why are they scared to come out and destroy the monster...I forced them to come out of the safe zone and get their butts kicked by monster some...it only lasted a bit.

I decided I needed to look into this ... I bet this is something related to their father abandoning them. A man is not here teaching them to be tough ... to come out and protect the females in their lives (ie sisters). I must do a better job and teaching them it is their duty to stand up and protect their no matter what ... that is what men do...they fight and they protect.

Just my 2cents.

Wellll...I was sort of asking a rhetorical question to blow off a little steam, after reading a spate of posts wherein men were meekly exiting their homes and leaving their children to make room for a third party in the marriage.

But your insight is interesting and does have valid points, so sure, I'm glad I asked!

Mel----Love that show! I'll admit I have a lil redneck in me. Spent Easter at my buddy's by Durant OK-- whoa nelly--folks down there know what redneckin is all about.

Tough,

I have told you this before that I was raised by a single mother of 5 kids. As you have seen I am not afraid to walk the line between bravery and stupidity (steer wrestling). All of my brothers are this way. It was my mother who instilled toughness into us--she taught us to never quit no matter how bad off or how poor we were. We had to work for everything we got.

What I'm trying to say is that my father abandoned us and we are a pretty scrappy bunch. They can learn it from you. Not a bad idea to find a good male role model that they can learn it from either.

As a teacher I have seen boys that are/were raised by a single mother that are totally-pardon my French-sissy boys. I attribute this to there mothers being there friend rather than a stern parent. I don't know a single kid that knows what's best for them and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions based on how they are feeling at that particular time.

Example-my mother made my oldest brother play football--he didn't want to because he was timid at fist--now he is very thankful for my mother's prodding. Kids will always take the path of least resistance and I feel it's our responsibility as parents to make sure that doesn't happen.

my .02

Thanks PTH....I always love your insight...God Bless Tough

Ever since the feminazis, liberal media, lawyers, courts, politicians, liberal educators, had made it politically uncorrect to carry a club and drag your prospective mate back to the man cave by her hair when courting a woman.

Along with the BH knows his WW is mad at him. All a BH tends to do is think WW is mad. I don't want to lose WW. If I keep pissing off WW she will leave me so I have to do the opposite.

Of course we know the Neville Chamberlain approach never works. Though it is hard to figure out the correct response to a Bliztkrieg when the bombs are being rained upon your head.

Marital - pretty lame question. Think you're basing this on a very small sample of men who acutally do leave their home - those who have posted such on on here Think you're ignorng the vast majority of men who would take a helluva better approach to infideliy on part of their wives than some of the posters on here who seem to use this site to vent only. You're sort of implying that men today are not worth a tinker's damn. Most men I know as friends, I doubt, would be wallowing or hesitating in an attempt to save their mariage IF infidelity occurred! This is the real world, and their Faith is pretty stong.

Never Guessed - doubt there is a conspiracy agaisnt men on the part of women. That would be stupid and unnatural (against God's Laws - doubt He would let it get that far). Media does not rule your life unless you let it, NG. As far as the nitwit display of men (husbands) on commercials, I think tthat most men laugh at those coms as much as their wives.

Just my opinion,

Tom

Tom, my friend, your faith in the good and the right is touching.

I think I'll stay more reliant on reacting to the flawed impulses
of imperfect humanity, and fighting the more egregious violations
therefrom, than expecting "God's laws" to miraculously become the
guiding paradigm here on Earth. (And, as an immodest aside, could
it not be that a lone voice decrying the man-bashing abuses rampant
in society might BE a key piece in The Plan?)

I figure if such Paradise ever does manifest itself terrestrially, I'd
detect the shift with warning enough to adjust my own basis of action!

In the meantime, NG's Sword of Admonishment remains unsheathed!

Dunno, never moved out. XWW didn't even ask because she knew I wouldn't. My mistake was letting her take my child. Doubt I would have been successful in keeping her home as she would have been separated from both her mom and half sister.

But the good news is my daughter is getting wise to her mother's ways and is planning to move in with me. She is tired of the drama there, live in boyfriend, mom is always broke, being lied to.

Apparently XWW told her of her half brother she gave up for adoption. I believe she felt a little betrayed thatshe didn't know and that she found out from her half sister who is getting married.
Guys, don't leave and of possible don't let her take your child.

Good question. Something I have pondered quite a bit over the years (since my FWW�s A)

I can�t attest to those that move out of their house (I didn�t go that far) or leave their children (didn�t have any at the time), but I can associate with the feelings that would lead someone to do these things.

I was a total appeaser when my W had her A. I didn�t want to do anything to rock the boat or p*ss her off in any way shape or form. That me would have been someone that NG would tell to grow a set of balls, throw out a few rarely used words like fecklessness, discomfiture or possibly even bereft, then lose patience and stop posting to me for my lack of willingness to do something. Yeah�I would have been one of those.

I think it�s a generational thing myself. One general pattern I see repeated here is that younger (say 40ish or younger) men tend to buck the advice given more often than not. Particularly anything that they perceive making their WW angry (the stick), but tend to pick out and cling to the parts of the plan that they think might please the WW (the carrot). It takes some time to convince them that the two parts go together and don�t work well at all by themselves.

Older men seem more apt to act and in many cases have gotten a good start before even arriving here.

On the flip side of this, I see the opposite with women. Younger women seem (to me anyway) to have more of a tendency to expose right away and not shield their WH from the consequences of their actions.
Older women sometimes try to protect the WH and don�t want to stir the pot.

I really don�t know what the root of it is, but it does seem like a lot of men have handed over the ability to make decisions to their wives. They just go along and try not to make waves out of fear I guess. They take the side of inaction or appeasement thinking that if they can keep the situation from getting any worse, then that�s some kind of improvement.

IMHO, the men who capitulate to their WW do so because they are wrongfully thinking that acting "the nice guy" will win their WW back.
Then, when it does not work, they are lost and dazed and confused ... right before they venture off to find a new woman so they can feel "manly" with her.

My favorite resource book on this topic is Wild At Heart, by John Eldredge.

Another great resource on this topic is Save The Males, by Kathleen Porter.

Bride found this as part of her "What the HELL was I thinking?" self-directed recovery program.

From an online review:

"(Parker) argues that the feminist movement veered off
course from its original aim of helping women achieve
equality and ended up making enemies of men. The pendulum
has swung from the reasonable middle to a place where
men have been ridiculed in the public square and the
importance of fatherhood has been diminished�all to the
detriment of women and children, who ultimately suffer
most. Exploring our burgeoning culture of permissiveness
and the impact of anti-male attitudes on families and
relationships, Kathleen Parker tackles some of the more
taboo subjects in today�s sexual politics and culture wars..."