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Hey Longhaul, so good to hear from you! I emailed your wife last week and she told me y'all had been on vacation. I was at the same place you were!

Anyway, I went back and pulled up this post of mine from January about the issue of your mother. What do you and your wife think about it? How does SM feel about the situation now? What are her ideas?

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
LH, I know you miss your mother. You are a good guy and I know you are really trying. I am going to suggest another approach that might make your wife more willing to bring your mother back into the fold in the future. Your goal is to get your mother back into your life in a way that complements your marriage and puts your wife FIRST. Your wife should always come first.

I strongly feel that your mother should apologize to your wife and daughters before she is integrated back into your lives. It is almost impossible to forgive her for something when she doesn't even admit it is wrong. And if she doesn't understand it was wrong, she is not a safe person to your marriage and is bound to just do it again.

That will be the first step in making amends to your wife. And she must guarantee that she never hurts her again by bullying her or trying to turn your daughters against her. Her attitude about infidelity is absolutely destructive to marriages and should be abandoned when around your family.

I would wait a few weeks until things calm down. Then send your mother a letter telling her how much she has hurt your wife and daughters. Tell her that this rift cannot be resolved until she apologizes to your wife and agrees to never hurt her again with this wayward line of thinking. [you need to be very forthright with her about how destructive her approach is - I hope you include my analogy about the rape victim so she GETS it] I would ask her to send your wife a letter of apology. Then you read her letter of apology and make sure it is sincere before you give it to your wife. If it is not sincere, or contains weasel words, then send it back to your mother and tell her this won't work.

This will demonstrate to your wife that you care and that you will stand up for her. She desperately needs that right now.

In the meantime, I would not speak to or see your mom until this is resolved. After that, make all of your communications with her with your wife present. That will make your wife feel much more safe and she will know your M is not backstabbing her. That puts your wife FIRST and effectively integrates your mother back into your lives.

And this is ALL contingent upon your wife's feelings. I would suggest this to your wife and see how she feels. As your mother's son, it falls to you to set her straight when she harms your family, Longhaul. You are the protector of your wife and children. If my son and DIL told me I was harming them, you bet your butt I would stop it. My DIL is the gatekeeper to my future grandchildren and I need to know if I am harming that relationship so I can knock it off.

I know your mother cares about you and she should be grateful for an opportunity to make this right.

I think this approach will help your wife heal and will bring your mother back into the fold.

What do you think?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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p.s. I would not be bringing up your relationship with HER parents or it is going to inflame the situation. It will sound like you are playing tit for tat. You don't even want to do that.

That angle completely ignores the fact that your mother caused alot of damage to your marriage and seems to have absolutely no remorse for that. THAT has to be addressed and corrected before you should consider allowing her back into your lives. You have enough damage to overcome without adding that.

So, don't be bringing up her parents, LH. Don't play tit for tat with her unless you want to make the situation WORSE. You might be able to bully her that way, but you will never get an enthusiastic agreement that way.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. I would not be bringing up your relationship with HER parents or it is going to inflame the situation. It will sound like you are playing tit for tat. You don't even want to do that.

That angle completely ignores the fact that your mother caused alot of damage to your marriage and seems to have absolutely no remorse for that. THAT has to be addressed and corrected before you should consider allowing her back into your lives. You have enough damage to overcome without adding that.

So, don't be bringing up her parents, LH. Don't play tit for tat with her unless you want to make the situation WORSE. You might be able to bully her that way, but you will never get an enthusiastic agreement that way.


Perfect advice!






Recovery began 10/07;

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Haven�t posted in a while because our hard drive crashed but we are up and running now.

We are staying the course with MB and spending the 15 UA hours each week. I have had one AO in 2 months but the goal is zero.

I received some good advice of keep quiet and stop debating your opinion. Sounds simple but is a bad habit to break and it makes it harder when StrongerMe keeps telling me you are not talking to me and I need you to talk to me. I feel I am doing better. We talked for about 3 hours yesterday and about 4 today. Talking has never been a problem for me. Saying the wrong things is where I need to improve.

I feel that through our UA time and education of MB since Novemeber that I understand more of the inner thoughts of StrongerMe. Something inside is saying, �don�t say that� or that I just feel really bad and sad for StrongerMe is going through. I just want her to feel better and stop hurting. Time can really be a slow thing sometimes.

We have also added listening to the radio show each night together while we lay together in the bed. I like this and it is soothing to me. StrongerMe wanted me to do it and I feel like we are bonding when we do it.

Both daughters and StrongerMe have really opened up and have been extremely warm towards me since our family vacation together.

Still no job since I resigned on Dec. 19th. You do not receive unemployment if you quit a job. I have never been unemployed nor do I know anything about government assistance. I have worked every day since 1986. I have appealed it but they have declined it. I pass employers test for jobs but in the interview when I tell them the off shifts do not support my marriage they look at me like I am from Mars.

I had an interview 2 weeks ago and it went well. They are supposed to make a decision this week but I haven�t heard anything. I feel this is very strong for me to get this job. It will be the day shift. It is about three miles away from StongerMe�s work and we can carpool together and eat lunch together. It is about 50 miles away from my previous job. It is also a state job so my retirement time will roll over. I was 15 years away from being able to retire when I resigned. StrongerMe supports it and says it will support our marriage.

One of the negatives to the job is that I will be driving into the sun in the morning and the afternoon. This is my daily reminder to never forget what I have put my family through but also that it is nothing compared to StrongerMe thinking about it 70 times and hour. Hopefully we will be making love bank deposits to and from work so that in years to come StrongerMe will think about it less and less.

I will keep you all posted on the job and hopefully I will hear something today.

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Longhaul,

I will be praying you get this job and things will work out for you.

Listening to the show is something my H and I frequently do. We also read Dr. Harley and Joyce's devotional book, "Draw Close", in the evenings before we went to sleep.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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What a wonderful update, Longhaul. I am so happy to hear you are keeping your AO's under control. That was causing so much damage. What a great idea to listen to the radio show in bed!

Praying that you get a great job! smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Longhaul,

StrongerMe posted that you have been hired for the job described above. Congratulations. I think it will be good to get working again. And being able to carpool and have lunch together is such a plus.

What EPs will you put in place at work so that StrongerMe will feel safe and protected? How will you interact with the women who work there?

StrongerMe also posted about a couple of your recent behaviors. I am amazed and discouraged about some of the things you have said and done. I won't write what I am thinking, other than to say that you still have a long way to go to be the kind of man a woman would want for a husband.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
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Originally Posted by armymama
StrongerMe also posted about a couple of your recent behaviors. I am amazed and discouraged about some of the things you have said and done. I won't write what I am thinking, other than to say that you still have a long way to go to be the kind of man a woman would want for a husband.

AM
Agree.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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As I mentioned to you there are some threads I recommend you read.

Here's one I think could shed some insight;

LINK to longwayfromhome's thread

I'll be back with more...





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Longhaul! Did you honestly play the tired old "I'm leaving" card again? crazy How many more times do you think you can play that card before she takes you up on the offer?

You have playing that card for YEARS when you weren't getting your way in order to throw her off balance. It is a manipulation tactic. Was your daughter right when said you were just faking it because you didn't have a job?

I have to tell you I am very disappointed you are still playing girly head games with SM. When will it be time to man up and start facing your marital problems like a grown up?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Long Haul is long gone. Sad. ML: You are a Godsend!

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ML: You are a Godsend!

So were the ancient plagues of boils, frogs and lice. Certain not-to-be-named waywards should pay heed!

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LH I don't understand not will I ever you have a wife that will take you back after you assaulted your family with infidelity. You know what you need to do yet you don't and play immature games! I think you should shape up or ship out your kids don't deserve to be treated like this. I hope they don't follow your lead when they get older. You can make this right and follow the program!

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Long Haul, I haven't read all your story, but I read enough.

I must say that I don't understand why adulterers get so angry that their betrayed spouses are so hurt and need to further protect themselves from abuse and betrayal. I think I would be more upset if my betrayed spouse didn't appear to care!

I can tell you what will happen if you don't lose the sense of entitlement and resentment of your wife for being devastated by your abusive behavior and adultery.

She will gradually grow to the point where she loses all love for you. She will gradually grow to the point that she would be delighted if you would leave. Your actions are already showing her that you don't love her as a man should love his wife, so why should she continue loving you?

It doesn't matter that you ended the affair on your own. You showed her, through your affair and the lies and abuse, that you don't love her above all else except God.

You need to show her some actual remorse for doing something so horrendous to her. You need to court her! You need to give her some darned good reasons to love you! Just the fact that you breathe is not enough!

Your behavior and attitude have made you into terrible husband material!

You are extremely lucky that your wife is willing to rebuild your marriage, but you need to do the work without resentment and the attitude that you have displayed. The world does not revolve around you!

You have a lot of work to do, but it will be a lot easier if you lose the attitude!

You should be GRATEFUL that your wife is still willing to give you a chance, but that won't last forever.



"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

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LongHaul, in case you are reading this thread,

...My H became a wonderful man after he became truly deeply sorry for the suffering he brought into our lives through his affair. Not only was he deeply sorry, he also made some radical changes in the way he conducts life, thanks to MB.

1.) He abides by the EPs I have set up. There was some tweaking and some backward steps, but mostly it's been a success. Now they've become a habit he no longer questions.

2.) He used to have angry outbursts, be disrespectful, dishonest, and make many decisions as though I didn't exist.

NOW, his new way of living is to never argue or have angry outbursts. He always considers me in his decisions and is honest with me.

3.) He rarely met any of my emotional needs.

NOW, his new way of living is make sure he actively meets my ENs. And it's more than just a couple of them. He says he wants to meet ALL of them, even though I haven't asked him to. And meeting my ENs has become a habit for him and has proved to be rewarding, so that it's pretty much effortless for him now.

He told me throughout the last couple of years that he deeply wanted to become the kind of man I could love and admire and then started practicing all the habits that would lead to that end.

And NOW? He is deeply satisfied with his life. He used to be on anti-depressants and he has not taken them in two years and doing WELL.

He has become someone that not only can I love but that HE can respect. He really likes the way his life is going and is so happy to live in a way that can be respected by his peers, his friends, and his family.

He has become a truly likeable person, not a Jekyll and Hyde, like he used to be.

In return for all his efforts, he has a wife who is very happy to meet his needs. I respect him and admire him and show him this in many ways.

If you do not make the necessary changes, you will lose the best thing that is in your life: your wife will lose her love for you; your daughters will lost their respect for you. You will have all the freedom you want but will have lost what is most important.

If you make the changes necessary to become a good husband, it will be worth all the effort it takes to get there.



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Three weeks ago I went to get my hair cut and with the conversations I had with the hairdresser my wife told me she was uncomfortable about me going there.

I said I would not go back. I did not argue. I did not resent it. It bothers her and I want to move forward. I did have personal conversation and I am trying to work on this. One is if I have it with a female I do not talk to them again. Two is not to do it again.

I met my new boss who is female and also a lady I will be working with maybe 5 times a year. I only talked about the job and that is all. I do not think I will have to interact with them a lot but my goal is to only keep it as business.

I told SM all about my day, who I talked to and what we talked about. I do not have a problem with this. I feel good that this makes SM feel better.

Where this went south is when SM told me I should not have any female service providers. I tried to do POJA with her and ask if she would go with me when I went to the doctor once a year for a checkup and go with me when I get my hair cut by another person. She said no. End of story. Her way or no way.

If I don�t do her way then I am not supporting our marriage and I am not protecting her. I would be happy to shave my head and never go to a doctor if it would help our marriage.

It doesn�t seem to end.

I was happy I have a job and we could carpool together and eat lunch together. I felt this was a better job than what I had. I get to spend more time with my wife and I am working about 3 miles away from her. Then I have a sit down on my personal conversations and I can�t go to my doctor anymore.

I told SM that I agreed with everything that MelodyLane had written. I do not disagree with anything. She told me I makes her angry when I say I don�t disagree.

I can not talk fast when we are talking because makes her feel unsafe. I slow it down and breathe slower.

I can not move my wrist when I talk because makes her feel unsafe. I try to hold my hands by my side when I talk.

Now I can�t say � I don�t disagree with that� It makes her mad.

I told her last night if it makes her feel safe and protect then I will not go to my doctor anymore. I didn�t go to her last time it was a nurse practitioner at a CVS but she is female so I don�t know what I can do now.

I was on a flight from Dallas and a lady had two children. I would say 4 and maybe 9 mths. The 9 mth had a dirty diaper and was crying on the plane. I was in the aisle beside them and I told her I would watch her son while she went to change the diaper. I would hope someone would help my wife if she was in need. I didn�t want to have sex with her. I didn�t want to know anything about her. I just helped a person in need.

I have done this my whole life and have never wanted to have sex with any women if I helped them.

I saw two women that were in need of help last week. I asked SM � Do you want me to stop and help them?� She said no and I kept driving.

I have a problem of being friendly with people but it is my goal to never have personal conversation with a woman again. When I talked to the ladies this week, I only talked about work.

If I do have personal conversation with a female I will tell SM and we can work from there.

I have repeatedly told SM that she may think we have the tools to have a productive conversation; we don�t use them correctly and have bad habits also.

I had an affair 5 years ago. It stopped. I kissed her 2 years ago. It is over and has been over.

I quit my job because it had triggers for SM. Not to end the affair because it was over.

I am 60 miles away from there so there will not be a chance of it ever surfacing again.


I do not drive in that county for anything.

I have not had alcohol since Nov.

Have not taken any job that didn�t support our marriage.

Try to always say �How would you feel about ?�

Spend 15 hrs. of UA with SM every week.

Talk slow and hold my hand down.

Post even though I HATE IT , HATE IT , AND HATE IT.

I have agreed to the EP�s because I have not shown I have good boundaries with women. I want SM to feel safe and secure.

I went to pick up SM yesterday for lunch and drove her to see exactly where I was going to be working. I know she is nervous because I am getting a new job. I also went to go see her because she was in a car wreck yesterday and her neck and back was hurting. I feel we were having a great lunch.

You can read her details because I always get them wrong and she is more correct than me.

In summary, SM locked her heels in on the female doctor and so did I.

I am trying to recover but I am not Dr. Harley or Her Papa Bear. I have a long way to go and I don�t know if I have what it takes to make it.

I have about 8 or 9 bad behaviors I am trying to change at once.


I have been told by wise counsel not to talk because I debate and to keep quiet.

I have been told by the coach do not say these things. Do not talk!! Talk about positive things.

SM tells me �I need you to talk to me.� I try to talk but keep it on positive and then I start debating.

I try to stop the conversation and tell SM we have been talking for 50 minutes and haven�t made any progress. I just makes her mad. We will talk again for 2 hour and not make any progress. I tell her we are not using the tools of MB. It makes her mad.

I took the kids to school today and took their books back to the library. Stopped to get a biscuit. There was a guy I use to work with that really taught me a lot and I haven�t seen him in years. I waved at him and he stopped and we started talking. I didn�t call SM because I was letting her sleep. When I got home I asked her how her back was and she started cursing for about 2 hrs.

That's should have you all up to speed from my end.

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Longhaul, my friend, the problem is that here we are months into this and you don't have extraordinary precautions in place. The big gap is that you are STILL having personal convsations with females. The hairdresser, your former coworker to just name two. And I am astonished that you would ask about the OW. EPs are NOT issues for the POJA, they are very basic steps that should be taken. These are steps that are practiced in healthy marriages.

When your wife pointed out the problem to you, you played the "divorce" card again, which is nothing but abuse and manipulation. It has to stop. You see, you have much more to overcome than most cheaters. Your abuse of her was much worse than what we typically see because you not only had an affair that spanned several years, it you lied about it for years. S this is WORSE than what we typically see.

Punishing her for pointing out triggers is abusive and manipulative and only makes it much harder for your marriage to ever recover. Sorry doesn't cut it anymore, LH. I you continue to play such head games with her you might find yourself out of a marriage, yo can't afford more of this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"I am trying to recover but I am not Dr. Harley or Her Papa Bear. I have a long way to go and I don�t know if I have what it takes to make it. "

All it takes is willingness and if you don't have that then she seriously needs to reconsider her future because she is not safe unless you implement EPs. She is asking you to take precautions that should have been there ALL ALONG.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Point taken.

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