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Originally Posted by BitsandPieces
I lost twenty pounds. He has not even noticed. I simply am not of a physical quality to catch his interest anymore. and that hurts.

Listen, you are worth more than your body.
If you lost a breast to cancer, would WH's legitimate response be to go out to seek two beautiful breasts on another woman's body?



How much does your WH fear losing you?

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Of course he is bored with me...He came home to a teacher who reads and sews and bakes.

Absolutely nonsensical. Firstly, in general terms, you just described Mrs. NG, and in my eyes the sun rises and sets with her.

Secondly, as recently as a few (4?) years ago, he fell in love with the same woman who wrote those words, to the extent that he married her.

Any problems he has (hookers, porn, loose Captains) is not to be laid at your feet. His evident "boredom" is actually withdrawal from his affair (of whatever intensity), reducing him from the fantasy-land of TWO women satisfying his ENs, to the real-world (adult) situation of living a faithful life with ONE.

You have every opportunity to turn this around, B&P, by learning the principles, and implementing the practices, here.

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Pepperband, again thanks. Yes, I know I am worth more than my body--I just can't seem to get past the fact that he doesn't. As far as whether or not he fears losing me. I don't know. He has not indicated. he has said he wants to stay married and has outwardly cooperated with my requests. It just feels like his heart isn't in it.

NG, maybe that pertains to what you were saying. I don't know if the captain was an EA, PA, or my paranoia--I do know that nothing has been the same since then. He vehemently denied there was anything, but he was actually giddy when he talked about her when he was there. I am not sure what he is "withdrawing" from: the captain, the porn, meaningless encounters with prostitutes.

I don't know how to combat any of this. He seems to be on board, he says he is very sorry, he has cooperated with my requests. But really, my stomach hurts, my head hurts. I don't feel like it's true. And if it isn't it will destroy me.

I am going to get the VAR and get it in his car at the earliest possibility. Without external confirmation I don't think I'll be able to get past any of this.

How can he be withdrawing from the captain if they never had an affair? How can he be withdrawing from porn--it isn't even real! How can he be withdrawing from a prostitute he didn't actually keep the assignation with.

I know I am both rambling and whining. I am sorry. I know I can't think straight now. I haven't in months.


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Perchance, does your WH take any medication to assist with erectile dysfunction?

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Pepperband, are you psychic? Yes. When we were first together it took a lot of time and patience for us to consummate the relationship. He has been on viagra since before we married. For awhile even with viagra he couldn't maintain. He even tried to tell me he just wasn't a very sexual person. It was one of the reasons why it took me a while to suspect the colleague in Afghanistan. It was one of the things that made the infidelities feel so much worse. He couldn't get sexually attracted to me, yet for some random whore...

It has been better recently. A few times we have even managed without meds first thing in the morning.


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Originally Posted by BitsandPieces
Pepperband, are you psychic? Yes. When we were first together it took a lot of time and patience for us to consummate the relationship. He has been on viagra since before we married. For awhile even with viagra he couldn't maintain.

I'm not psychic. Just a good guesser. (I worked in primary care for 30 years)
Actually, porn is "easy" for a man with ED. Making love to a real flesh & bone woman is a challenge.

It's not your body that is causing the problem ... it is his body.

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Originally Posted by BitsandPieces
It has been better recently. A few times we have even managed without meds first thing in the morning.

I see a love bank opportunity !!! LOL rotflmao

Do you know what men find the most alluring in the bedroom? The biggest turn-on?

An enthusiastic woman whom he knows can pleasure.


Listen, wink toots, I am 63 years old. Trust me, the body changes over time and over surgeries can be daunting ... but nothing beats that secret ingredient.

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Well now you've made me laugh! That hasn't happened in a while. Actually what you point out is part of the reason I am so concerned. I was always very enthusiastic in the bedroom. He didn't seem to want me. Now I am starting to obsess about whether or not he was with that colleague. wonder if he did meet-up with other prostitutes before I intercepted that email. And I know that he willingly turned away from me and to the image of random women on the internet. I need to get myself together.

Thanks for everyone's responses. if anybody has any other ideas for snooping, getting at the truth, or making me and life with me attractive to my husband again--I am all ears. I seriously thought I was at the end of my ability to keep going on with this until I posted. You all have been pretty much my only support.


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B&P,

As others have said, he is unfairly comparing you to his fantasy. Don't let him. Be the best wife you can be (Carrot) while assuring him that you will not stay in a marriage while being disrespected (stick). I wouldn't recommend too much stick right now...you'll need to get evidence. The VAR is a good way to go, as well as a keylogger on the home computer that he uses regularly.

A couple military concerns: What branch is he in? If this Captain came to his room in the evening hours, it is a violation of General Order 1B. If it was during the day, and he's in any service other than the Army, then it was also a violation. A Captain yelling at a Colonel is an absolute no-go. It is highly likely that there was at least an EA here. Even if there wasn't, this relationship was absolutely unprofessional. You are right to be concerned.

His rank actually works in your favor. There is a huge campaign going on DoD wide to rid the services of sexual assault/harrassment. Any sort of innapropriate behavior is seriously frowned upon, and punished accordingly ESPECIALLY when leaders (officers) are involved. This only works in your favor IF you gather the evidence and expose to his entire chain, as well as the IG.

Now, you already know that he solicited a prostitute...he admitted to it. Soliciting a prostitute is grounds for a court martial under the UCMJ. Get the VAR, and see if you can get a recording of him saying this. Even if that's all you get, it will be enough to expose with. If you can get him to talk about his relationship with the Captain at all, that would be even better (as far as the military is concerned.)

Get the VAR, get a keylogger, collect all the evidence and put it on an encrypted thumb drive (I can help you with this if needed), then go full nuclear exposure. After that, you can really start hitting him with the stick, and demand he take a polygraph. That will give you the truth, and you'll be in a much better place to consider recovery. Through all of this, make sure you take care of yourself, and don't let him know that you are snooping.


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JoseJake,

Thank you for the information! He is in the Army, but it was during the evening. It just did not feel right. Once he even asked me to send him a care package including the ingredients for brownies because Capt. Loosey-goosey liked to make brownies "for the boys." Yeah.

I think the VAR is the best bet. Once I found that email, his computer is so consistently clean that I think he is not just cleaning it after use, but actually not using it. He could easily have a laptop, tablet, or phone I don't know about. Setting up different emails is easy enough.

How do I get him to talk about these things without arousing his suspicions regarding snooping? Thank you so much for your offer of help with the technology. I'm really technologically challenged. He knows I don't trust him. Do you know if the radio or other car sounds will interfere with the VAR?

Also, Jose Jake (or any of you other guys out there), can anyone give me some insight as to how a normal woman can possibly compete with the fantasy of prostitutes or porn? What exactly does this provide a man that he isn't getting with a real girl? During this plan A I have tried to be a very good wife. I have also striven to lose weight (20 pounds), gotten a new haircut and color, bought some new sexier clothes, I have resolved to never change into "comfy" clothes at the end of the day. He hasn't noticed at all. I've tried talking to him about the things he likes to do and his job, which is very important to him. He just seems bored when he is with me. It's almost palpable.


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You cannot compete with utter garbage, and you wouldn't want to. A fabulous wife is so far above a homewrecker or porn star that there is just no comparison at all.

If he is bored, the fault all lies with him. Most likely he is just withdrawn because of the various infidelities.

You say he knows you are suspicious of him. The more you snoop, the more you need to seem relaxed, and like you have let your guard down. Even the most tech savvy wayward will eventually make a mistake if they don't feel they're being closely watched.

Since this may take a while, I suggest toning your Plan A down from being kinda frantic, to a level you can sustain more easily. For example, instead of not changing into comfort clothes at the end of the day, get some that are good for lounging, yet still sexy. Flattering PJ's, exercise clothes, whatever looks good and you can relax in.

Believe me, I have been on the Plan-A-too-hard Team. While putting forth an enthusiastic effort to attract him back, you also want to save enough energy to care for yourself. It's best to care for yourself first, and Plan A with the energy that's left over.

You asked how you could talk to him about the computer and stuff without arousing his suspicions. Well, you can't. Don't talk about anything of the sort while you're snooping. You want him to relax. No relationship talk, no future plans, nothing serious. Happy, light, and fluffy. Once you find something, bring it on here and plan what to do with it.

You don't have to make a big, ugly deal out of it, but avoid those sorry excuses for friends that are blaming you for something that is 100% HIS FAULT!!! Maybe someday they'll understand and be sorry, but you won't be able to educate them or change their minds just by talking, and you need people around who will support you and not tear you down.

You can do this. hug


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Neak,

Thanks. I guess I have been kind of "frantic." I really haven't known what to do. It is draining and demoralizing to be working so hard on myself and have him not even notice. Especially since one brand of his infidelity is very much linked to unemotional physical arousal.

It is also very difficult to fight the impulse to talk about the relationship etc, while I go about the snooping. We have a weekly therapy appt. that I set up before I found MB. If I am supposed to avoid relationship talk, should we stop the therapy? How long should I keep this light fluff stuff up? I need to catch him for sure, but I am afraid he is going to be so careful now that I won't be able to keep doing this long enough for him to slip up.


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B&P,

I know that feeling of working so hard and not getting noticed. It's exhausting. Know that until he comes out of his wayward fog, he'll continue to be like this.

I would avoid the therapy entirely, especially if it's with a Military Family Life Counselor. I saw two seperate ones with my STBXW, and all they did was make exuses for her wayward behavior and ask how she was dealing with forgiveness after I exposed. Best case, it's a waste of time. More likely, it will be damaging to your marriage.

Don't worry about competing with porn stars...like Neak and others have said, there is NO comparison. It's pure fantasy land. Do your best, FOR YOU, and you will be better for it.


Me: BH
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Yes, cancel the therapy. At its best, therapy is useless while a wayward is still wayward. At it's worst, the therapist may actually undermine the position of the BS in any of a zillion ways. It's best to avoid it altogether.

It's not easy to stay light and fluffy. It's your best path at this point. It will relax his suspicions so you have a better chance to find out what's going on, and is one of the few things he will remember later, when you go into Plan B.

If you planted corn yesterday, would you be upset if you went out today and couldn't pick a full-grown ear? Well, that's what you're doing right now. You're planting seeds that WILL SPROUT later, and WILL BEAR FRUIT eventually. Nothing you're doing good with now is wasted, even if he doesn't notice at this point.



A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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B&P,
I have been experiencing the type of indifference to me and sense of ambivalence to our marriage as you are experiencing for over 3 years. Its been awful. I know I have made mistakes and the vets here have sometimes been unhappy.

The enigmatic nature my husband carefully presented made it nearly impossible to respond to as recommended through technology. But know if your husband is now distant and previous he was not so distant---this says a lot.

The defuse nature of the so-called OW is an odd one to flesh out when its a enigma or fantasy your dealing with.

If your husband has contact in his working day w/Capt this is a problem for your recovery. And as I found out even the renter notion of being open to others in case things don't work out with marriage keeps the fantasy rolling making recovery flat.

He is not allowing you to make love bank deposits. He is projecting onto you HIS pain. Its brutal and he does not get it now. He's too self centered right now.

Just recently after all this time and really more then ready to end our 33 year marriage as I could not stand the ambivalence any longer, I created flash cards with individual questions for my H.

I explained why I needed the questions answered. I said I'd appreciate his honest answers. I assured him he'd be safe to answer the questions when he was ready. ie no disrespectful judgements, selfish demands or angry outbursts. And he could choose to answer what he was ready to answer and continue on at another time if need be.

He decided to answer my questions with radical honesty and all at once. I asked a few more questions to clarify along the way. The atmosphere was almost business like but also caring. When he was done I thanked him.

And there were surprises which did hurt. But the remarkable thing about the encounter now is the relief and transformation that has turned our relationship around just recently.

We can now place the history we are both now aware of into a context where their is meaning for our relationship long term. We have been attempting the online lesson program for 3 years and not getting too far due to husbands 'renter' style.

I know my husbands soul was split in two. He could not connect with anyone including himself. The most amazing things have been happening over the past few weeks in my relationship w/my husband. I know my own approach was not a formula talked about specifically here on MB. But I did follow the principles.

I'm hoping this information will help you B&P. Don't let this situation destroy you.
Your husband is teaching you to hate him. You might have to protect your marriage from foolishness to sustain it long term while he is withdrawn.

And I understand you are in a different phase then I was recently--- but like Neat says this transformation no doubt has come from the fruit that has been nurtured over time.


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Quote
he confessed to soliciting, but claimed he would not have gone through with it. He said he had used porn heavily in Afghanistan and had been unable to quit when he returned. He admitted that he had begun to fantasize about acting out the porn.


I would suggest contacting the Company Chaplain and sharing what you know/think/fear/feel.

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Graceful,

I am interested in what you did with your husband. This approach seems to go directly counter to the advice to me to keep things light and not talk about the relationship. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. What sort of questions did you ask? I am curious because I have already asked every question I could think of. He steadfastly maintains all of his current statements from Dday on. What did you ask your husband that caused him to suddenly reverse himself?

I have stopped asking why...but I need him to come clean about the Captain and the extent of his porn/prostitution. Everything I read says that there is almost always more than they first disclose. He hasn't admitted any additional stuff--largely because I do not have proof. Now maybe he really is the exception to the rule, but I no longer think so.

Committed, My husband has already gone to our priest and one other confessor and disclosed. Is there some specific reason I should contact the chaplain? Do you mean his current chaplain on base or the chaplain he saw in Afghanistan?

All in all, I am so confused about how to proceed.


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Committed, My husband has already gone to our priest and one other confessor and disclosed. Is there some specific reason I should contact the chaplain? Do you mean his current chaplain on base or the chaplain he saw in Afghanistan?


YOU are the one that needs to go to the Base Chaplain. You need to share all the information you have about the inappropriate relationship he had with a person ranking beneath him...and his self proclaimed addiction to porn, along with his solicitation of a prostitute.

I can imagine that you will say you want to avoid that because it risks his job and retirement....and there is a risk. He will eventually solicit sex from a hooker (if not already). Then you won't have to worry about his job and retirement...you will be looking for bail money.


I don't think that you can actually believe him when he tells you what he confessed to his confessor. The confessor isn't going to tell you want he confessed about...so how can you know what he did confess about...just sayin'.

Sidenote: can someone tell me how they can be over there fighting a war and still find the time and resource to surf for porn????

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Sidenote: can someone tell me how they can be over there fighting a war and still find the time and resource to surf for porn????

I got this smile

War isn't what it used to be. Most people deployed to Afghanistan are at work 12-18 hours, but aren't actually working for all those hours. I could go on about this...but I'll just leave it at that.

There isn't anything we can do about people surfing on their own time, using commercial networks. It is what it is.


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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Sidenote: can someone tell me how they can be over there fighting a war and still find the time and resource to surf for porn????

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My nephew was in Iraq for 2 tours. He saw a lot of fighting and when he had time to get online and chat with family he was allowed to do that. He even skype'd with us from one of Saddham's castles and gave us a short tour with the web-cam. If he choose to do a little porn surfing after we talked to him, how would we, or anyone else know and/or police that? Nephew took drugs to wake up/stay awake on missions and took drugs to come down and sleep afterwards. It was like a pharmacy over there. Porn surfing is probably encouraged to get some "release" from all the fighting. Oh yeah, and affairs... you know, what happens in the war zone, stays in the war zone and all that crap.


Me - BH 49 years old
Her - WW 43 years old
Married 20 years
D Day Jan 7, 2013
3 kids - DS19, DS17, DS12
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