Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#2727239 05/14/13 11:13 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
I first want to say thank you to all the members on this site. I have been reading on this forum for a few months, and you have all helped me immensely!

Here's some history of my situation. My WW & I have been friends for ~20 years. We started dating 12 years ago, and have been married for 7 1/2 years. We have 2 daughters (3 & 1 1/2). Our marriage has been jaded for a couple years now, but I associated it with having children. Four months ago I found out that my WW was having an EA with a coworker. That was going on for 6 months when I found out. The day I found out I felt anger, fear, betrayal, and I panicked. I left work, got the girls, and brought then to my mother's house. She swears it was just a "connection", and that they kissed a few times. Since then, we have been separated. We each took time to figure out what we wanted. During that time, I seriously changed as a person...for the better. I'm an optimist now, not a pessimist. I can honestly say I love myself now. I focus my passion on gratitude, appreciation, love, etc, rather than annoyance, aggravation, and anger. I had a "strong" personality, and she became suppressed and felt suffocated. Those were her main issues with me. She has told me that she sees my changes, and she's happy for me. However, she wrote me a letter a month later saying she didn't want to work on our marriage. I think I just made too many withdrawals from her love bank. She told me the spark was gone, and she didn't think she could get it back.

At the time, she said it was over with OM, and he was not the reason why she didn't want to try. But I have also learned that, since that letter, they have slept together. My family and friends know about their relationship, but I'm not so sure her family and friends know. She has also changed jobs, so they no longer work together. Not sure why she left her job.

I have gone through the emotional rollercoaster that most go through. One day/week/month I feel optimistic that I accept her decision and I will once again be happy in the future. I have felt strong for weeks at a time. But lately, every Sunday when we exchange the kids, my heart is torn apart again. When we exchange emails/texts (re: finances, kids, etc), I miss her, and it kills me inside. We remain very cordial, kind, and respectful to each other. Aside from the night of our talk when I tried to reason with her, I have been doing a decent job at a 180 (didn't pursue, beg, discuss my feelings, etc). I rekindled old friendships and hobbies. But we don't live together, so she doesn't see all my changes. It's been 4 months and nothing has changed. I told her on Mother's Day that I miss her and miss having a life with her. Those are my only feelings I've shared with her in 4 months. We have not discussed a single thing about D at this point. Oh, one more factor to note. We are currently doing a "nesting" agreement. The kids stay in the house, but me & her split time there 50/50.

So that leads me to where I am now. I am considering a Plan B letter, but I think it might be a waste as far as R is concerned, because she has expressed no desire to R. A part of me wants to do this as a last resort/hope to get her to change her mind. I also want to know in the end that I tried everything. But I also want this for my own sanity. I can't continue to have my heart torn apart every contact we have. I will NEVER get over her at this pace. I feel that cutting her off completely will allow me to get over her, and eventually move forward in my life. But of course, a part of me still loves and misses her and has hope. Whether that hope is real, or IF we can even R, even if she wanted, I don't know. Would a Plan B work if we split a house, even though we don't spend the same nights there? I would have family/friends exchange on Sundays.

Thoughts? Should I consider exposing to her family & friends first? I'm not sure whether or not they know. I know my chances of her changing her mind are slim to none. But is there even a glimmer of hope?

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
But is there even a glimmer of hope?
There is, but it's not in Plan B. Only go to Plan B if you have no desire whatsoever to recover your marriage. Plan B is to protect you, not to save your marriage. It is not a tool to bring your WW back.

If you want to bring her back, you will need to Plan A.

But first, you need to kill the affair. Yes, expose!
And stop leaving the house. Go home, and stay home.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
BTW, you will get more help on the Surviving An Affair forum. Click "notify" at the bottom of your post and ask the moderators to move your thread there.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Dear AgentS,

Welcome to Marriage Builders. I am very sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.

Please click the "notify" button and ask the moderators to move your thread to the "Surviving an Affair" section. Most of the people who can give you really good advice for your situation hang out there, so you will get more attention.

Originally Posted by AgentS
I am considering a Plan B letter, but I think it might be a waste as far as R is concerned, because she has expressed no desire to R. A part of me wants to do this as a last resort/hope to get her to change her mind.

Plan B is not a last resort and it does not cause wayward spouses to change their minds. Please slow down and take the time to get educated on Dr. Harley's methods. You wouldn't want to make a wrong move, if you want to keep your marriage.

Here is some important educational help for you:

Video (free): Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know by Dr. Harley
Articles (free): How to Survive Infidelity, 30 articles by Dr. Harley
Basic Concepts (free): Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
$9.99: Surviving an Affair Dr. Harley's classic book on infidelity, coauthored with his daughter Dr. Jennifer Chalmers (ebook edition; you can be reading it on your computer immediately)


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
Thank you all for the quick responses. I will notify a mod to move the thread. I also know this is a very important and pivotal point in my life. That's why I'm here...to get advice from other, more experienced people before I make any decisions.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
Others will help you shortly, but first I'm going to give you some bad news...

You are way behind the power curve at this point.

First, the affair was physical before you found out and separated. Adults that emphatuated with each other and have opportunity don't "just kiss". It is a standard method of denial by waywards and saying "we just kissed" means they had sex and lots of it. Pretty much 100% of the time.

Secondly, I know you didn't know any better, but the 4-month seperation just gave you wife time to get much further entrenched in her affair. Now intstead of stolen moments, they are openly spending all night and every available night in each others arms. And, when you expose your wife can counter with her excuse that it happened after you separated.

It won't necessarily be impossible, but now it will be much more difficult to break up this affair. There can be no progress towards reconciliation until the affair is busted.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
But is there even a glimmer of hope?
There is, but it's not in Plan B. Only go to Plan B if you have no desire whatsoever to recover your marriage. Plan B is to protect you, not to save your marriage. It is not a tool to bring your WW back.

If you want to bring her back, you will need to Plan A.

But first, you need to kill the affair. Yes, expose!
And stop leaving the house. Go home, and stay home.

Thank you and your husband for your responses. I'm confused about Plan B now. I've reviewed sample letters and all basically seem like they're saying they want their spouse back and want to save thier feelings for them by stopping communication. Is that, then, just the hope, not the intention? It didn't seem like the people who wrote PBL had no desire to save the marriage. It seemed like all they wanted was go save their marriage!

Also, I have no idea how to expose. Do I just call her mom, brother, and email her friends? And say what? That she's involved with another guy, and she was for 6 months prior to our separation? How detailed do I get? And how do I say it without sounding like the jealous or bitter husband? I accept my role in her unhappiness, so I wouldn't want to just finger point.

One last thing. I thought about returning home. A hesitation of mine is that she makes a lot more than I do, and she pays the entire mortgage. If I move in, I'm guessing she'll put that payment on me, and I can't afford it on my own. Maybe that's just the excuse I'm telling myself.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
A lot of people who go to Plan B DO want to save their marriage. But Dr. Harley rarely advises men to go to Plan B. As a man, your odds of winning your wife back by going to Plan B is extremely low.

I'll quote Sugarcane on this one, because I think she summarized Dr. Harley's thoughts on it very well:

Originally Posted by Sugarcane
I've heard Dr H say this many times. Plan B for a man is essentially a step towards divorce. Men who want to fight for their marriages in response to an affair need to outlast the affair and out-love the OM. A man needs to show himself to be there waiting to pick up the pieces when the affair falls apart. She needs to see that you did not give up on her if she is ever to go back to you.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Read this:

Exposure 101


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by schtoop
Others will help you shortly, but first I'm going to give you some bad news...

You are way behind the power curve at this point.

First, the affair was physical before you found out and separated. Adults that emphatuated with each other and have opportunity don't "just kiss". It is a standard method of denial by waywards and saying "we just kissed" means they had sex and lots of it. Pretty much 100% of the time.

Secondly, I know you didn't know any better, but the 4-month seperation just gave you wife time to get much further entrenched in her affair. Now intstead of stolen moments, they are openly spending all night and every available night in each others arms. And, when you expose your wife can counter with her excuse that it happened after you separated.

It won't necessarily be impossible, but now it will be much more difficult to break up this affair. There can be no progress towards reconciliation until the affair is busted.

I know I'm behind on the power curve. I have no idea how to get it back. I tried being "independent", showing her I'm strong, happy, not needy, etc.

As for them, I would be surprised if they were sleeping before we separated. I'm not naive where I think it was impossible for them to. Of course they could have. And I completely understand why people here automatically say that. I feel bad getting his detailed, but we were sleeping together fight until we separated. She wasn't, lets say groomed, for a while. Something she always used to do. Now that we're separated, I find wax strips in the garbage regularly. Plus, the OM has a huge mouth. He tells his ex everything. He told exactly when stuff happened between them. Again, they def could have, but the signs were just not there until we separated. Either way, regardless of when it started, it needs to end. So any detailed ideas how to stop it? I know I have to expose...just don't know how or what to say.

Does everyone here think I need to return home fulltime?

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
So any detailed ideas how to stop it? I know I have to expose...just don't know how or what to say.
The link I gave you above will give you the when and how to expose, plus common mistakes to avoid. There's a sample letter there, as well.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Please read the thread that has been linked regarding exposure and come back and talk to us about it. We will help you tweak your plan.

The affair has thrived all of this time because it was never properly exposed.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Sample letter:

Quote
Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
The affair has also thrived because you moved out of your house. Is there any type of court order or separation agreement regarding this? If not, I would make plans to move back. Do not ask her for her feedback regarding this...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by AgentS
I know I'm behind on the power curve. I have no idea how to get it back. I tried being "independent", showing her I'm strong, happy, not needy, etc.


You need a proper Plan A --- the carrot & the stick!

Quote
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by AgentS
[

Thank you and your husband for your responses. I'm confused about Plan B now. I've reviewed sample letters and all basically seem like they're saying they want their spouse back and want to save thier feelings for them by stopping communication. Is that, then, just the hope, not the intention? It didn't seem like the people who wrote PBL had no desire to save the marriage. It seemed like all they wanted was go save their marriage!

SOME people HOPE their marriage will reconcile after Plan B, but that is not the purpose. Plan B cannot cause reconcilation. Its only purpose is to protect the betrayed spouse from the effects of abuse. Most men can avoid Plan B and are better off staying in the game and competing with the affair partner.

Quote
Also, I have no idea how to expose. Do I just call her mom, brother, and email her friends? And say what? That she's involved with another guy, and she was for 6 months prior to our separation? How detailed do I get? And how do I say it without sounding like the jealous or bitter husband? I accept my role in her unhappiness, so I wouldn't want to just finger point.

Go read the thread in my signature. It will answer these questions.

Quote
One last thing. I thought about returning home. A hesitation of mine is that she makes a lot more than I do, and she pays the entire mortgage. If I move in, I'm guessing she'll put that payment on me, and I can't afford it on my own. Maybe that's just the excuse I'm telling myself.

She can't legally put the entire mortgage on you. A person can't just walk away from their bills.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by AgentS
Does everyone here think I need to return home fulltime?

We are telling you what Dr Harley would tell you to do. Moving out has only served to facilitate the affair and made it much harder to save your marriage. You can turn that around, though.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: May 2013
Posts: 31
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 31
Hello, I haven't told my story yet, but will very soon. So does this mean that for a woman that it may be easier to win back a husband with plan B. I'm in plan B now. What's the difference?

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
WOW. I read the first couple pages of Exposure 101, and I am impressed and, to be honest, scared. I know what I have to do. But as you all know, this isn't easy to swallow either. At this point, I just need to put together a plan, email, and figure out all the details of email addresses, exactly who, etc.

But I can't thank you all enough for your help. I knew I should have starting posting earlier!

Should I still expose in the workplace now that my WW left the job? If so, the sample letter doesn't fully apply anymore. She does still have friends there, and OM is still there. Do I still have the head of HR look into phone records, etc?

Also, in the exposure letter do I address some potential excuses she has told others why we are breaking up? I imagine she told them I'm this angry guy who treated her bad, etc. In fact, I heard from a friend that she told her friends I did some messed up stuff to our kids. He told me in confidence, and asked that I don't repeat that to her because she would know he is the only person I would hear that from. I just imagine she will deny everything to her friends and family after my letter, and certainly minimize their relationship.

If I'm going to expose in the near future (this week), does it matter whether I move back into the house full time before or after the exposure? That will definitely be a double-whammy for her, and I know she will not be happy! But I loved the analogy of "it's like taking a crack pipe away from a crack head". I just didn't know if people had a suggestion of which to do first since they will both be happening very soon.

Thank you all again!


Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
A
AgentS Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 21
Oh, one more twist. And I know I'm going to hear flack for this. But I didn't know what I was doing!

After I heard about them sleeping together, I asked her if they were still seeing each other. She minimized it and said they went out on a date or two. Yeah....right. Well I read somewhere else about setting up rules for the separation and seeing other people. So I asked her about a month ago if it was alright to see other people. She obviously said yes. I didn't say it because I had somebody in particular. I just felt like we were over and I was strapped down while she was out having fun.

I'm guessing she might use that as a rebuttal to my letter. Is that something I should be concerned about, or am I overthinking it?

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 131 guests, and 53 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,811
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5