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#2722426 04/27/13 02:52 PM
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Fourteen months ago I discovered my husband had a long-standing relationship with another woman. At first he denied it, but eventually said this: it was a friendship which several years ago turned into an emotional affair but never went as far as actual intercourse because she refused to go that far, though he did ask. He was very reluctant to agree to stop seeing her and couldn't decide what to do for about 3 months, then he did make a commitment not to see her again, and to keep our marriage. I got the surviving an affair book,but he didn't feel it "fit our situation". He refused to see a counselor, didn't want to follow the openness and honesty policy advice, write her an "it's over" letter, talk about his emotional needs, spend more time with me, etc. He doesn't see a need to actively rebuild, he just wants me to forgive him and trust him again, and it will all be OK.

But I tried to follow my side of the marriage builder advice. I secretly found out who she was in preparation for a public exposure (although I didn't do it because he finally agreed to have no further contact; I have not told anyone except one adult daughter because he asked me not to). I have been as patient as possible with the pain and ambivalence he felt, I have tried to initiate discussions about meeting his emotional needs, and I have been trying very hard to do things that I know he does appreciate even though he doesn't verbalize them as needs. After he made the commitments to me, I would ask if he had seen her but it was bothering him a lot that I asked (that supposedly showed a lack of trust that I should have)so I hadn't said or asked anything AT ALL about her since August. I tried so hard to do what he wanted, just drop it. Until a month or so ago, I thought he at least was feeling pretty good about our marriage.

But in the meantime I'm not "getting over this" well. The strain of hiding what is wrong from family and friends has been so hard. I struggle every day. My health is going downhill and it has been the most miserable year of my whole life, and I've had some tough ones before. I'm taking antidepressants. I have earnestly prayed for a forgiving heart and a way to express that to him. I have enough experience with betrayal in other circumstances to know that you have to decide to forgive over and over and over because we're human and we tend to take the offenses back. I'm sorry, I don't even know what forgiveness is supposed to look or feel like if I haven't been doing it!

Now to the more current things that are upsetting me. Twice in the last month I went to pick him up at his (male) friend's house where he spends every Sunday, and when I went to the door, he was watching internet porn. That may not be a big deal to some people, but it is deeply offensive to me, and not just because of the exploitation involved. So I confronted him about it, explained how it made me feel because of my breast cancer and mastectomy, that he was looking at women without disfigurements. I admit I totally lost my temper and that is pretty out of character for me. I did bring up the OW because of my pain at the thought of him touching her, and I know he understands why those things hurt me. Maybe that is why he hid this next...

Last week the OW's number was on his recently used text numbers but he had deleted the actual texts. I found it by accident but I do still generally check his phone often and it has been months since I saw anything. So I asked him. Calmly. He said he went to her house to get a saw he had left there when he was doing some repairs for her and I had nothing to worry about, it was just the once. His explanation for deleting it and for not telling me he went to her house was to avoid how it would upset me needlessly. I need to forgive him, trust him...

And maybe that's not what he was hiding at all. I just don't know. I have not pursued it any further. I've just been thinking it over and I don't think I can drop it this time. I feel like he has had it all his way at the expense of my needs. I feel kind of trapped. My religious beliefs prevent me from leaving him and compel me to forgive him. There is no reason I have kept his secrets except because he would be shamed for them to be public. I would love to be able to make him feel trustworthy, but he has lied and been secretive so often that I really do not feel confident he hasn't lied about everything.

It seems vicious to start telling people now about an affair that actually might have ended almost a year ago. I don't know if I should force him into counseling with an ultimatum...I'm not sure what kind of ultimatum I could actually carry out. I've felt that because I was the one who cared the most about rebuilding, that most of the responsibility to act maturely was on me, even if it hurt to give and give. But I'm at the point where he MUST begin to see that my needs are real and urgent, and I don't know where to begin to communicate that desperation.

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Fourteen months
...... And things are this crappy.

Time to follow a plan, don't you think?

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He said he went to her house to get a saw he had left there when he was doing some repairs for her and I had nothing to worry about, it was just the once. His explanation for deleting it and for not telling me he went to her house was to avoid how it would upset me needlessly. I need to forgive him, trust him...

TRANSLATION:

"I'm still seeing OW when I feel like it.
I don't care if it upsets you.
I am untrustworthy and will lie to you to cover my butt, therefore you should trust me to lie to you to cover my but
t."

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My religious beliefs prevent me from leaving him and compel me to forgive him.

What religion is this?

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It seems vicious to start telling people now about an affair that actually might have ended almost a year ago.

Telling the truth is vicious according to your religion?

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But I'm at the point where he MUST begin to see that my needs are real and urgent, and I don't know where to begin to communicate that desperation.
*knock-knock*

"Who's there?

Reality.

Reality who?

Reality check .........



You can communicate your desperation, your pain, your hurt, your innermost raw indignation until the very last cow comes home ..... Unless you do something other than TELL him AGAIN how much this hurts ..... nothing will change.

The reality check?
HE DOES NOT CARE IF IT HURTS YOU AS LONG AS HE IS DOING WHAT PLEASES HIM.

This is abusive.



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Are you willing to make big strong bold MB moves to try to make a difference?
Or, are you here to blog about how awful your marriage is?
Are you here to ask, "What can I say to my husband to convince him to change?" blah MrRollieEyes blah MrRollieEyes blah

It's time for action. It's past time in fact.

We can lay MB-based plans in front of you, but I'm not going to bother if you are inclined to be apathetic and choose to be victimized.

Your WH is not motivated by your words. If your words were enough to motivate him, you would not be having the same complaints after 14 months!!!

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Hi Josephine, welcome to Marriage Builders. Please take the time to go read the exposure thread in my signature. That is where you need to begin. By keeping the affair a secret, you have helped it thrive and grow. Everyone should know about the affair, everyone. Is the OW married? If so, I would start your exposure with her husband and her family.

When you are done, you should demand that your husband end all contact for life with this hoe. He will need to change his cell phone #, email address, etc and make his life completely transparent. He can also spend 100% of his leisure time with you and stay away from the friend who enables his porn addiction. Which is another problem. Porn is destructive to marriages, s he has stop it.

I would not push him into counseling since it is destructive to marriage. You will have much better results by holding him accountable and exposing his affair wide and far.

"Forgiveness" is absolutely inappropriate when there has been a affair, so I would put that aside.

Be assured the affair has never ended.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
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My religious beliefs prevent me from leaving him and compel me to forgive him.

What religion is this?

I know of NO "religion" that endorses FAKE forgiveness. You have about destroyed your marriage by sweeping his affair under the rug and enabling him. You have looked the other way while he gets deeper and deeper in his corruption. That is not an act of love, bit one of complacence and neglect.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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How long married? Any children? How old?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I feel for you. A lot.

Even many nonreligious spouses fight their very most best fights to save their marriages. Even in the most dreadful series of unfolding events over time.

Religion isn't what draws a person to try to save theirs, but being someone who stands by the commitment of marriage is strong. A very strong thing to deal with as you implement plans.

You have to know that though you can fight your best fight.......in the end.....you can not make your H cooperate with you to save the marriage.

Put your thoughts about how to deal with this to the side and prepare to battle for getting through this. Plan. Come get advice. Follow marriage builder concepts fully and in the end, whether your marriage makes it or not.....you will know you did the best with the situation and you will be proud.

(I actually suspect the affair never ended but went deeper underground to throw you off the secret second life)







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To answer questions: Married 37 years in two weeks, I was 17 and he was 20 when we married. 7 children ages 34-11. 3 still at home. I am Amish Mennonite, he says he is Baptist but has not been active for many years.

I don't reply often bc we do not have internet at home. I access at library.Thank you all for your patience.

It is not fake forgiveness to forgive those who mistreat you. It is just hard, hard, hard. It was even hard for Jesus; that's what the New Testament is all about. I believe God uses situations like "impossible" things to forgive to make us depend on Him. One reason that I have been reluctant to do what this site says is that I'm not sure the perspective fits mine...

But I checked personal property records. Apparently OW and spouse have moved and the address seems fake. When I drove by where it should be is an empty lot. So I will have to work on investigating some more. Can someone just please say (so I don't have to hunt thru all the advice, i have read it) whether it's better to meet or phone the other spouse?

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Josephine, it is fake forgiveness to forgive someone who has not repented. When I mention forgiveness, I mean Christian forgiveness, not this secular version where forgiveness is passed out to the unrepentant like cheap candy. Your husband has not repented.

I would also suggest that forgiveness is not warranted here. Rather, JUST COMPENSATION is. Dr Harley is a Christian and his views are based on those principles. Please check out Dr Harleys article about forgiveness http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

I think your eagerness to forgive has only served to enable bad behavior from your husband. I think if you raise your standards of what you will tolerate, you can help him be a better person.

Can you get Internet at home? It is difficult to help you when you only post once a week.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Josephine,

His explanation for deleting it and for not telling me he went to her house was to avoid how it would upset me needlessly. I need to forgive him, trust him

I suggest you get a polygraph for your WH, he is still hiding lots of details and these are not trivial details. If he were honest he would have had you or some third party go over to pick up his stuff, or go with you.

Your WH will not recover while he is still sharing intimacies with the OW he does not share with you.

Contact the OW spouse in person, compare note, they won't line up but we already know that, this is a tool to dig out honesty.

God Bless
Gamma

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OK, I have taken a few more steps to try to pull myself out of the isolation (HOW, HOW, HOW did I let him convince me to keep it a secret?). I am going to have to have lots of support before I can expose to people. Since I cry at the drop of a hat, it's going to be hard to be calm and actually say what I need to. I did tell my pastor and his wife. My husband meets with him alone tonight. Not sure what I expect to come of that...

I am also getting treatment for depression.

I found where OW and OS live now, not sure if the phone # I have for him is still active.

I can already envision the indignant replies to this question, but I just have to ask: Does the other spouse ever get so mad by the news that he hurts your WS or the OW? Yes, I know I'm looking for excuses not to have to do it, just give me some support here ok?.

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Originally Posted by josephine58
OK, I have taken a few more steps to try to pull myself out of the isolation (HOW, HOW, HOW did I let him convince me to keep it a secret?). I am going to have to have lots of support before I can expose to people. Since I cry at the drop of a hat, it's going to be hard to be calm and actually say what I need to. I did tell my pastor and his wife. My husband meets with him alone tonight. Not sure what I expect to come of that...

I am also getting treatment for depression.

I found where OW and OS live now, not sure if the phone # I have for him is still active.

I can already envision the indignant replies to this question, but I just have to ask: Does the other spouse ever get so mad by the news that he hurts your WS or the OW? Yes, I know I'm looking for excuses not to have to do it, just give me some support here ok?.
Glad you're still with us.

As far as the crying, if you follow the Plan it will help keep your emotions in check.

Read this and follow the templates Exposure 101


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by josephine58
OK, I have taken a few more steps to try to pull myself out of the isolation (HOW, HOW, HOW did I let him convince me to keep it a secret?). I am going to have to have lots of support before I can expose to people. Since I cry at the drop of a hat, it's going to be hard to be calm and actually say what I need to. I did tell my pastor and his wife. My husband meets with him alone tonight. Not sure what I expect to come of that...

I am also getting treatment for depression.

I found where OW and OS live now, not sure if the phone # I have for him is still active.

I can already envision the indignant replies to this question, but I just have to ask: Does the other spouse ever get so mad by the news that he hurts your WS or the OW? Yes, I know I'm looking for excuses not to have to do it, just give me some support here ok?.

When I asked a similar question, the response was basically, A WS will use that as an excuse to get you to not expose. Thats why you need to expose fast and hard. My exposure was not very good and I suffered a bit because of that.

Rest assured, exposure is the BEST way to put holes in the affair and get other people on board to hold WS accountable. After all, who wants to shag someone that has a crazy DS making their life a living hell. It's your best bet to chase the skank away.


Me - BH 49 years old
Her - WW 43 years old
Married 20 years
D Day Jan 7, 2013
3 kids - DS19, DS17, DS12
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I have not threatened WS with exposure. I'm positive he has no idea that I've been investigating and know where the other couple lives and other basic info. So he is not the one worrying over it, I am. IF I do it, it will be late but totally a shock. I'm just wondering if my fear of provoking some terrible violence by telling the other woman's husband is a reasonable possibility that I need to take into consideration. Surely if it happens even occasionally, you guys would know.

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Originally Posted by josephine58
I have not threatened WS with exposure. I'm positive he has no idea that I've been investigating and know where the other couple lives and other basic info. So he is not the one worrying over it, I am. IF I do it, it will be late but totally a shock. I'm just wondering if my fear of provoking some terrible violence by telling the other woman's husband is a reasonable possibility that I need to take into consideration. Surely if it happens even occasionally, you guys would know.
Do not warn or threaten your WH with exposure. Just do it. I can't seem to recall (off hand) at the moment a BS harming their WS after the other BS exposed to them. IF it has, it's been minimal.

That's the chances a WS takes when they break their marriage vows. You aren't responsible for what the BH May or may not do to his WW.

But please inform this BH ASAP. He has a right to know the damage his WW has done to him.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.




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