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Originally Posted by tismeagain
Thanks brainy, I did hear both of them! I just thought Dr. Harley may have expanded more about the Asperger's, since he had been cut short about this on the first show where it was addressed.

You are so great with the links, I am not sure why I was thinking something was missing.
No problem.

I will keep my ears peeled in case I have missed something. smile


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Thanks for updating me that the Harley's responded. I did not see
an email from Joyce. The response was spot on, his impulsiveness and
selfishishness. Dr Harley was right in that he needs to put deposits
Into my love bank.


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Originally Posted by NOMO
Thanks for updating me that the Harley's responded. I did not see
an email from Joyce. The response was spot on, his impulsiveness and
selfishishness. Dr Harley was right in that he needs to put deposits
Into my love bank.
Will you have your husband listen to the clips?


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Not sure as he does not yet know that he may have this syndrome.
Things have gotten a lot better, he is enacting Plan A right now. It is nice
to see him change his behavior but not sure how long this will last


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Originally Posted by NOMO
Not sure as he does not yet know that he may have this syndrome.
Things have gotten a lot better, he is enacting Plan A right now. It is nice
to see him change his behavior but not sure how long this will last
Will he write Dr. Harley?


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Glad to see you NOMO smile So happy that you got to hear the clips since you missed the show.

I hope that you will consider having your H write to Dr. Harley. Maybe he could even be caller if he was to include a phone number. I don't think you would need to tell him that he might have a syndrome in order for him to hear from Dr. Harley.

I am not sure if Dr. Harley would even recommend that. I think that could fall into the DJ category. At this point it is just a theory that your therapist has after talking with him a few times and not an actual dx.

Dr. Harley would give him the clear steps that he needs to take to make the love bank deposits needed, and a path to follow to restore your marriage.

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Originally Posted by NOMO
Hold Her Hand,
Thank you for your reply. My therapist tried to talk to my husband about meeting my emotional needs, he tried for 2 weeks, then gave up. He constantly wants to talk about our relationship and will harp on me for what he perceives as my lack of interest in sex. If I approach him, he complains I do it out of duty. If I do not approach him he complains that he always has to approach me. This was prior to my daughter's death.

I have really tried to meet his ens, which is sex, an attractive wife and financial. I have a good job, I work out every day, I try to dress trendy, I used to be loving and attentive, holding his hand, hugging him. Now that my daughter has died, it is as if I have gone with her.

I tried for so long to hold this marriage together. I just want him to give me some time to try to come to terms with my daughters death, to grieve without him pressuring me for anything right now. He could not do it, so here we are.

NOMO

The problem is that your ENs are not being met, and therefore you do not feel like having sex with him. He tried for 2 weeks but didn't deposit enough into your Love Bank to get you in to the black where you felt in love with him. Your account is so low that you are in the Withdrawal state and do not feel like meeting his needs either.

If he is familiar with the concept of ENs and the Love Bank, tell him that your account is like at -500 right now and each EN he meets adds 5 but each DJ takes away 15.


Dr. Harley says that the higher need spouse should be the one approaching the lower need spouse and the frequency should be what the lower need spouse needs. Like the POJA, the resentful ness of you having to have sex is greater than his resentfulness in not having sex.

So I say that if you want to repair the marriage, contact the Harleys and make an appt. If anyone can convince your DH to meet your ENs, it will be them.

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NOMO-
Regarding Aspergers (now labeled as a form of Autism Spectrum Disorders, instead of differentiated as it was in the past)-

I think it would be very helpful for you to listen to the radio show from Thursday. If you see this post early enough it might still be playing otherwise you will have to wait a couple of weeks.

Toward the end of the show Dr. H goes into great detail about why he does not like to label people with personality disorders. He would much prefer dealing with the symptoms as a combination of instincts and habits which can one by one be changed with practice over time.

I have found this to be true. Your husband CAN learn how to accept and respect your perspective. Focus on the POJA process, paying special attention to the part about understanding perspectives. Read more about it in LoveBusters.

Keep in mind that Dr. Harley & Joyce discuss perspective taking, emotional needs,
and change, repeatedly on the radio show.

Listening to the show is a non-threatening way to gain understanding of these concepts which for some are not naturally assimilated.








Last edited by DidntQuit; 08/02/13 02:51 AM. Reason: typos
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Originally Posted by DidntQuit
Toward the end of the show Dr. H goes into great detail about why he does not like to label people with personality disorders. He would much prefer dealing with the symptoms as a combination of instincts and habits which can one by one be changed with practice over time.

DSM 5 no longer uses a multiaxial system.

Autism Spectrum Disorder (including the former diagnostic category, Asperger's Disorder) is not (and was not, in DSM-IV-TR) a personality disorder.

DSM-IV-TR categorized Asperger's Disorder as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

DSM 5 categorizes Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Neurodevelopmental Disorder.

The vast majority of individuals with Asperger's Disorder (now, ASD), need help and support to navigate the social aspects of daily life. Individuals such as Dr. Vernon Smith and others in the media are exceptions.

That said, an accurate and ethical diagnosis of an individual with ASD can only be undertaken by a qualified clinician and with the individual's prior, informed consent.

"Armchair diagnosis," such as the one eluded to earlier in this post (I seem to remember the H was not even aware the therapist was "diagnosing" him), and the announcement of that diagnosis to others is unethical.

Was the therapist in anyway qualified to make this diagnosis?

Did the H give informed consent to participate in the diagnostic process?

If yes...carry on.

If no....

I would drop the issue of "Asperger's" until such time.

BV





Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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There has been so much happening lately with my dh. He hit rock bottom, and now is finally realizing what the affair has done to our marriage. He never took responsibility for the affair, blamed everything and everyone for his behaviour. He behaved towards me as if I had the affair, not him, constantly blaming me for all that he perceived was wrong with our relationship.

He reached out to the therapist, booked weekly sessions with her. He reached out to a pastor at one of the local chuches, and has found God again. He has done a total 180, asking me to forgive him for what he did 13 years ago, is trying for the first time to meet my ENs, not because he can get something out of it, but just because he wants to.

We are still separated, I want to take my time to and address all of the issues in our marriage before I let him back home again. In the meantime, we talk, he is taking me out on a date tonight. For the first time in 13 years, I feel a little bit of hope that I can finally have a spouse who is as invested in the marriage as I am.


I am definitely a case study that you can convince your spouse to come home after an affair, but if you do not address the underlying issues in the marriage, the marriage cannot recover. My dh resisted all attempts of therapy, considered it a waste of time, because, he could not face the fact that he had an affair. I don't know if I am explaining this clearly.

So, we stayed together, to the best of my knowledge, he has not engaged in any other affairs.

I remember how desperate I was to save the marriage, implemented Plan A and Plan B. It worked, but I could not move forward. I addressed all of my issues, tried to meed his ENs. He did not believe in ENs, did not want to ready MB, did not want therapy. He just wanted all of this swept under the rug, to forget.

My daughter's death is the catalyst that unearthed all of this again. I thought the pain of an affair was the greatest truama that one can experience, it is nothing when compared to the loss of a beloved child.

Thanks to all of you for reaching out to me in my time of need. I really appreciate all the support.

NOMO


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Broken Vase,

I think you are correct, we need to drop the "aspergers" diagnosis until he has been told or officially diagnosed.

NOMO



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Now would be a good time to ask him to either do the online course or MB coaching with you.


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Here's a good show on a personality disorder.

Radio Clip on Personality Disorders
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4


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Originally Posted by brokenvase
DSM 5 no longer uses a multiaxial system.

Autism Spectrum Disorder (including the former diagnostic category, Asperger's Disorder) is not (and was not, in DSM-IV-TR) a personality disorder.

DSM-IV-TR categorized Asperger's Disorder as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

DSM 5 categorizes Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Neurodevelopmental Disorder.


Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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NOMO,

I am happy to hear that your H is working now to try to restore the marriage. I hope the date went well. That is a step in he right direction, you guys need dates, several times a week is what it will take to restore your love for him.

I agree an affair devastates a marriage, and as Dr. H says the path foe recovery is VERY narrow. Most marriages do not recover properly because the correct steps are never taken. It leaves the marriage limping along in an even worse state then the pre A marriage.

That was what my situation as well. I attempted to start using the MB program with my H, but he thought I could just use MB to fix me...nothing for him to do, this left me frustrated, resentful, and in DEEP withdrawal.

This was where we were in our marriage when we lost our son. I also agree that for me, no pain, suffering, or loss compares to the loss of my child, but even that still did not change the facts about my marriage. If we were going to stay together we HAD to heal and recover our marriage.

Have you considered using the MB coaching center? Is he willing to follow the MB program now?

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Brainhurts, like your handle too. I think he will give our therapist his best. She is helping him deal with his grief also, so he needs to focus in on addressing his issues as well as the marriage. I think when he is in a better place, I can ask him to consider MB counseling.

Tsismeagain, I am so sorry for the loss of your son. I understand the trauma of the death of a child, it is really not something you can put into words.

My dh is really trying hard, swearing he has changed, understands the harm he has done, and is going out of his way to be loving, helpful, thoughtful. All of the attributes I longed for. I never thought he would be the kind of husband I need, I just hope he can maintain these changes. In the meantime, we are still separated which is right for both of us. He does take me to lunch, calls me every evening, will come over to the house if I need anything fixed.

However, there is a single woman who is his neighbor who has been hitting on him. He did not realize at first, when she asked him about play dates with our dog and hers. She showed up at his door earlier this week when I was on the phone with him asking him to borrow some sugar. I told him that is just a ploy, it was after 9 at night, what is she doing coming into a strange man's apartment alone and so late? I said I only heard of a neighbor asking to borrow sugar on TV, not in real life. So, I warned him that if he were to engage in an affair with her, we were through. He assured me he is not interested, he loves only me.

I really do not know what to think about this potential threat to the marriage. If he is going to cheat again, here is the prime opportunity. I am trying not to stress about it, but how can I not? He has been very open and up front on his encounters with her. I asked him to tell her the next time that he sees her that he is a married man and that he cannot be friends with her. We shall see......


I know all the warning signs, distance, evasions, calls going unanswered, so I am pretty sure I could tell if he engages in an inappropriate relationship again.

Nomo


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Are you thinking about letting him move back in with you?


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Not right now. I do not think he is ready to come home yet. I have always given in when he shows me the slightest remorse and I think to do so know may undermine all that I am trying to achieve.


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Just wanted to provide an update. H is still seeing the therapist and going to Church. We have been on a few dates, and he has been very attentive and loving. He brings me flowers and cards, texts me during the day, calls me in the evenings.

I have finally opened up to him about my grief. He is also grieving and tried to suppress his grief. We are now grieving together. For the last 9 months of her death, I have shut him out, thinking I could not bear his grief as well as mine. I did us both an injustice by shutting him out.

I think this separation is a good thing for both of us. He has his space, I have mine. For the first time in my life, I am living alone. I think it is good for me, to provide me with the solitude I need to try to find a way to live without my daughter. For so long, my life centered around her and her needs. Now, I need to figure out what purpose I serve now that she is gone. I am still a mom, I have two other children a d 27 and a s 25. But, they are both grown and living on their own.

Thanks to all of you at MB. You were there for me 13 years ago, and you are here for me now. I hope I can someday repay the kindness by reaching out to others in their time of need. At this time it is all I can do to get through the day. I will update if anything significant happens.

NOMO


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NOMO, I am very sorry about your daughter but even more sorry to read that your marriage is in such a bad state. The situation is made much worse by your separation. You can't repair your marriage by being separated and it is very likely your husband will have an affair. Do you realize that being separated a) makes it much harder for you to repair your marriage, after all, how can you fix your marriage if you are not there? and b) makes him vulnerable to an affair?

A better solution would be to put aside the "grief" counseling, move back together and work on creating a romantic, passionate marriage. The longer you stay separated the harder it will be to overcome the desrtuctive independent lifestyles you are creating.

Quote
I think it is good for me, to provide me with the solitude I need to try to find a way to live without my daughter.

It is not good for you becuase you will end up divorced if you continue to neglect your marriage.

Do really want to deal with an affair on top of everything else? Your choices here will lead to more heartbreak. If you make different choices, you can end up with a happy, passionate marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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