Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 21 1 2 3 4 5 20 21
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
I think I misread your post to say HE is married, but I see now you didn't say that at all. Is this POS married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think I misread your post to say HE is married, but I see now you didn't say that at all. Is this POS married?

No, he's not. Twice divorced. Based on the timing of his first divorce and the age of his son, it's obvious he's cheated before. It's odd that this mathematical detail slipped my wife in his "open and honest" intimate conversation with him.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by markos
Let me give you an equation we pass around here:

Unmet emotional needs + NO Extraordinary Precautions = AFFAIR
Unmet emotional needs + Extraordinary Precautions = NO affair
Met emotional needs + NO Extraordinary Precautions = AFFAIR
Met emotional needs + Extraordinary Precautions = NO affair

If extraordinary precautions are not established, all of your work to rebuild a romantic relationship will be for naught.

I didn't think of it that way. It's really easy to think we're on the right track since we both feel better and are really restoring our romantic love.

I need to talk with her about additional EPs I feel are necessary.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Originally Posted by MadMindMonkey
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think I misread your post to say HE is married, but I see now you didn't say that at all. Is this POS married?

No, he's not. Twice divorced. Based on the timing of his first divorce and the age of his son, it's obvious he's cheated before. It's odd that this mathematical detail slipped my wife in his "open and honest" intimate conversation with him.
She was in the fog. "Openness and Honesty" and "affairs" simply do not mix. APs are rarely open and honest with each other. Once they start with the lying, it is very difficult to discriminate in who they are lying to. They are almost always "look better than you are" liars with each other.


me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
When was her last contact? FRom reading your post above it sounded like you were condoning continued contact.

I did say that. That was the reason for my post. I've since seen the light, and have changed my mind. Like it was said above, would I give an alcoholic a little shot of liquor?

She is going through withdrawal and even demonstrating some depressive tendencies. In my moment of weakness, seeing her suffer, I wanted to help her out. She said she just wanted to know general friendly things, like how his father was doing. This guy is a joke and I couldn't imagine her falling for him again through email alone. Anyway, I contacted the OM and told him if he met with me in person I would consider her request. He declined of course, but the door is still open. They have still not contacted each other as far as I can tell, and I have done some digging. He is really a louse and doesn't want her...way too hard of a target with me hounding around and too far away. She's the one that wants contact.

Well, I'm not having any of that. I was not satisfied by the NC email she sent. I will give him one of my own and copy her. It's not for him anyway, I already know he doesn't want to contact. She needs to know how that her contacting him, no matter the innocence of the discussion, is another smack to my face.



Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MadMindMonkey
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think I misread your post to say HE is married, but I see now you didn't say that at all. Is this POS married?

No, he's not. Twice divorced. Based on the timing of his first divorce and the age of his son, it's obvious he's cheated before. It's odd that this mathematical detail slipped my wife in his "open and honest" intimate conversation with him.

ok, thanks. But I would certainly expose him at work so he can't do this to some other man's family. It should also be exposed to your children, family and friends.

Did you see my comments about that?

MMM, I know you are worried about upsetting her, but that is ok. The goal here is to save your marriage and affair proof it from another affair, *NOT* to avoid her anger at all costs. Exposing this affair will catapult you into a new realm. Keeping it secret keeps her fantasy alive and sends the wrong message to the OM. He believes, and rightly so, that you will do nothing to stop him. He has been given the green light to pursue your wife. You can't have that. He needs to be sent a message that hell is coming his way if he EVER contacts your wife again. You can do that by exposing him at work and by contacting him and letting him know he should never ever contact your wife again or you will be suing that hospital for sexual harrassment. And you can do that!

Your wife is on affair #2. If you don't take serious, decisive steps to wake her up, I predict you will be facing affair #3. She needs a serious wake up call.

And she will respect you much more for that. It surely makes her sick and disappointed that you weren't willing to fight for your marriage before. A complacent approach conveys a lack of caring. And I know you do care about your wife. You just need to show her that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 1
Your WIFE must send the contact letter, written so that you approve it. ML posted one to you for her to write. If you write it, it leaves the door open for her to contact him. Makes you the "bad guy." SHE needs to write the letter to the creep with your approval.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
This guy is a joke and I couldn't imagine her falling for him again through email alone
This guy is her drug and she will fall for him through any kind contact, even email.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MadMindMonkey
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
When was her last contact? FRom reading your post above it sounded like you were condoning continued contact.

I did say that. That was the reason for my post. I've since seen the light, and have changed my mind. Like it was said above, would I give an alcoholic a little shot of liquor?

Gotcha! smile

Quote
Well, I'm not having any of that. I was not satisfied by the NC email she sent. I will give him one of my own and copy her. It's not for him anyway, I already know he doesn't want to contact. She needs to know how that her contacting him, no matter the innocence of the discussion, is another smack to my face.

Absolutely! No contact is not negotiable. And there is no such thing as "innocent" discussion." An affair is an affair is an affair. They can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig! grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
This guy is a joke and I couldn't imagine her falling for him again through email alone
This guy is her drug and she will fall for him through any kind contact, even email.

Prisca is right. She already did fall for this guy. That train has left the station.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
MMM,

(He was an older, lonely fellow, who felt really crappy about what he did)

No OM is not some fellow, he is a cold calculated predator who has made a sideline of spotting and seducing vulnerable women. His fellings of regret are a script he has honed over the years to keep himself out of professional and marital trouble.

Since OM is in a position of authority as a doctor you can threaten a lawsuit against the hospital or the doctors partnership if he is a member of one. You need to send a message to every one of his facebook contacts, along with his adult children and ex wives. Expose OM widely completely and without warning.

This is how Dr OM4 was with my W, nothing could have happened physically as he was so old, but after a lifetime of seducing nurses and the entitlement he felt as a Dr he had no problem emotionally involving my W without remorse.

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 08/22/13 07:46 PM.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Thank You for all the advise and for getting me on the right track.

The NC letter was sent, mostly in line with the provided template. I was agreeable to the terms. Absolutely No Contact. Included specifics as to HIS role in the matter and how he should know he is a dirtbag.

EPs are in place:
1. Her job search will be directed to facilities that do not put her at risk. [in progress]
2. I have all account passwords and all her email gets cc'd to my accounts.
3. I monitor for the generation of other accounts.
4. I have put administrative locks on browser history so I can monitor activity.
5. Her phone remains unlocked, I can review at any time.
6. No additional apps on her phone with messaging capability. I know there were recommendations to get rid of the smartphone, but her healthy relationships with other women is very important to me. They keep her honest. It's good to have allies.
7. NO MALE FRIENDS. PERIOD.
8. She will not participate in GNOs with women I do not personally know. And this will not be allowed at all for at least six months.
9. No mixed gender parties/gatherings that I am not present at. (This is how she was first approached by the OM).
10. Post nuptial agreement to be written. [working details, any ideas what to include here for Just Compensation?]
11. I've considered FB controls but still working on them. I think it can be a tool for me to communicate my feelings publically which she adores. And it can foster healthy friendships. Right now, I'm monitoring activity with a keylogger. One breach and it's gone. All other social networking blocked.
12. If OM, or ANY OTHER MAN, attempts contact, she will immediately break contact and inform me.
13. She will dedicate at least 15 hours per week UA time
14. She will use the POJA for all decisions
15. She will not share anything, with anyone (male or female), that she has not already shared with me.

To be fair, I have the same EPs in place. If an affair can happen to anyone under the right conditions, it can certainly happen to me.

We've been at this for going on a month now and I have absolutely no evidence she has contacted him, FB him, googled his name, or anything. And she is getting much closer to being over him. My initial desire was for her to hate him which is why I considered contact. She would find out pretty quickly he had no desire for her now that I was guarding her. He really is a slimy predator. But I agree, Compete NC is the only way to go, thanks for helping me see that. I see know that even if she has a tiny place in her heart of fond memories years down the road, as long as there is NC, there is no threat. Kind of like my HS crush, I still have a fleeting thought every now and again, but I share it with my WS so it doesn't consume me (and I would be a complete idiot to try and contact her, even with a standard Christmas Card).


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by Gamma
No OM is not some fellow, he is a cold calculated predator who has made a sideline of spotting and seducing vulnerable women. His fellings of regret are a script he has honed over the years to keep himself out of professional and marital trouble.

Gamma,

I'm afraid you are more right than I ever considered until today. I checked the emails he sent me. They were beautifully scripted. He immediately threw himself groveling at my feet. All manner of "kissing up" to me. He said he thought I was a "great man", he's so sorry is not the same. What a load of baloney. He just doesn't want me to expose. Guess he thought wrong. I guess it's good that he's such a POS, I don't have to really worry about him contacting my WS again; he got what he wanted there, too much work to continue. I believe exposure will be to protect his next potential victim.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
These are good EPs.

I would have all contact information changed so OM can't contact her.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
10. Post nuptial agreement to be written. [working details, any ideas what to include here for Just Compensation?]
Dr. Harley does not recommend Post nuptial agreements.

Quote
11. I've considered FB controls but still working on them. I think it can be a tool for me to communicate my feelings publically which she adores. And it can foster healthy friendships. Right now, I'm monitoring activity with a keylogger. One breach and it's gone. All other social networking blocked.
Extraordinary risky. She has already shown she can not be trusted with Facebook and her smartphone, and they should go. Your focus right now should be on affair-proofing your marriage and creating a romantic relationship together, not on fostering friendships.

Since she is on affair number 2, don't take the risk. Friends can wait.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And she will respect you much more for that. It surely makes her sick and disappointed that you weren't willing to fight for your marriage before. A complacent approach conveys a lack of caring. And I know you do care about your wife. You just need to show her that.

Over the past few days, the following occurred:

1. NC letter was sent
2. EPs agreed to
3. Full exposure is done

I was afraid she'd shut down on me after it was all done, but just the opposite happened. Over the years, she felt I didn't value her, which I can agree I wasn't showing. By taking these aggressive steps to "win" her back, it just confirmed that she is more valuable than anything else in my life. Turned out to be a pretty powerful thing.

The fog of the affair is mostly over, she sees now what a ridiculous fantasy it was, and how the OM was taking advantage her and lying at almost every turn. As an example of her new found clarity, the other day she was changing the sheets on our bed and she remembered the night she slept with the OM, his bed was made. Up until that point, she thought "it just happened" or it was an "accident", now she knew he had planned all along to take her home to sleep with her. After all he is a single man that lives with his 13 year old son and the rest of the house was a disgusting mess, why would his bed be made? Maybe he just likes to make his bed, but most likely he had plans. She remembered he was the one buying her all the drinks and he was completely sober on the night her took her home. This might be TMI but I had a vasectomy years ago so she was not on BC. After the OM started his business, she remembered that she told him she was not on BC and it freaked him out. Let's just say he had a bunch of trouble...all that work for nothing. She says it was soooo bad. That's one reason it never got physical again, even though he tried. I call that poetic justice.

I'm not trying to be crass, I'm just surprised at how much she remembers after the fog lifted, and just as surprised at her complete honesty. She says being able to be completely honest about everything is a wonderful feeling. I returned fire with a few things in my past that I hadn't told her about before, specifically, the handful of times I went to strip clubs while overseas (now on my list of EPs). We've had so many open and honest exchanges over the past week that my head is spinning with delight...such a great feeling!

Once that fog cleared, she has really opened up. While she was in it, I couldn't get through AT ALL, and I tried everything. We are happily carrying out UA time every day, and it feels like we are really meeting each others EN completely. It's great to be married to this woman, I think now I'm just mad at myself for not meeting them before and for not having the EP in place after the first affair.

I am wondering if anyone has any pitfalls that we should watch out for. DD was four weeks ago. Is it too soon to feel this good? Where is my blind spot? I want to save this feeling between us.



Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Originally Posted by MadMindMonkey
I am wondering if anyone has any pitfalls that we should watch out for. DD was four weeks ago. Is it too soon to feel this good? Where is my blind spot? I want to save this feeling between us.
I don't want to rob you of any good feelings. Enjoy the progress you have made so far. But (and you knew there would be a "but"), recovery is a looong process, measured in months and years, not days and weeks. Don't be disillusioned with setbacks when they come. They will come. You have the tools available here to deal with them.


me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
M
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Just a quick question. I finished "Surviving and Affair" and am looking for a good followup. Was thinking "Love Busters" since I think those are harder for me to avoid than meeting emotional needs (not easy, but easier). WW is willing to read anything I read.

Any thoughts?


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
Page 3 of 21 1 2 3 4 5 20 21

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,352 guests, and 57 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5