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Originally Posted by markos
Do you do anything affectionate for her each day?

Do the two of you have any conversation during the day?
Markos asked some pretty good questions here, and I don't see a response from you.

These, in addition to UA, may be crucial in putting her lovebank balance over the top.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by markos
Do you do anything affectionate for her each day?

Do the two of you have any conversation during the day?
Markos asked some pretty good questions here, and I don't see a response from you.

These, in addition to UA, may be crucial in putting her lovebank balance over the top.

We have conversation every day. i have the luxury of being able to come home for lunch since I only work 2 miles away from home, so that helps too. I get to come home for lunch every day.

As for affection, I'm always trying to think of ways to be thoughtful. I'll admit I've stopped making her coffee in the morning. I could do that more often.

I've been passing these little girls selling cookies on the side of the street every day coming home from work. I think I'll stop by tomorrow and bring a surprise home with me.

I've tried the more traditional things like opening the car door. She is not into that.


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Re the shopping thing...

I don't "love" shopping... (and I might be one of the few women on earth that don't lol) when I do want to shop... I prefer to do it alone. It has NOTHING to do with who I'm shopping with. I could be my siblings.. could be my daughters.. could be my husband...I just don't like shopping with others..."If" I'm looking for something for myself. I need that time to weigh the pros and cons with no one else inserting their ideas or whatever into what I'm looking at..be it a top or a night shirt.

This might sound weird but...I don't always know what I want when I'm shopping. And if others are with me, I'm more concerned with "them" finding what they most want, and helping them.

Personally, I don't need help, and I don't want it. I cringe when I'm shopping for myself (a very private thing in my world) and others are with me...so much so that I haven't shopped with others (for myself) in decades. Literally I was sending my mother off to look on her own when I was a teen because I couldn't THINK with other people there.

And then there's the fluorescents in the stores. I don't know about you folks but I can NOT walk into a Wal-Mart without a list...the fluorescents are just mind numbing.. I get in there and I can not THINK. Trying to shop for myself with my husband glued to my side is just...unthinkable. Window shopping.. no problem... but if I need clothing or other items. yeah I have to do it alone.


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The point is to find something SHE loves doing, not to go shopping. She may not like that idea at all. The goal is to find something she enjoys doing.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
As for affection, I'm always trying to think of ways to be thoughtful. I'll admit I've stopped making her coffee in the morning. I could do that more often.

Get back on the ball!


Originally Posted by FightTheFight
I've tried the more traditional things like opening the car door. She is not into that.

Here's the deal on things like this; unless she says that she DISLIKES it, or HATES it, I would continue to do it.

Where it might look like she's not "into" it, it's because this type of thing is a small LB deposit. It isn't going to, in the moment, effect her romantic feelings toward you. In fact, with a low balance, even large deposits are not going to do a lot.

So, you need to make deposits wherever you can, large deposits as often as possible (UA time), and small deposits in the interim.


Also; I would not suggest doing any UA activities that your wife loves, but you HATE. This is about creating habits that create and maintain romantic love bilaterally. If you start practicing sacrifice, when it's time to stop, you are going to shoot yourself in the foot, and end up right back to that Pre A marriage, or worse.

You have to do some digging, some research. Get her talking and brainstorm some mutual interests - some new, exciting activities that you will both enjoy.


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I'm struggling on figuring out where to get all of this UA time in.

So far I have this:

Sun 2 PM to 4 PM 2.0 (Will need to get grandma to agree)

Mon 8:30 PM - 10 PM 1.5 Home

Tues 7 PM to 10 PM 3.0 Out to dinner or something

Wed 8:30 PM - 10 PM 1.5 Home

Thurs 8:30 PM - 10 PM 1.5 Home

Fri 7 PM to 10 PM 3 Free babysitting by neighbor

Sat 7 PM - 11 PM 4 Out doing something

Total: 16.5

4.5 of that is belly lint picking time so the real quality stuff is more like 14


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Does your town have a little newspaper with fun and inexpensive events listed?

Here in a large city of Texas, we can go to a botanical garden at dusk and watch a movie outdoors on a blanket with a picnic for no cost (not withstanding the heat.) I've seen home tours, food and wine tastings, dance events, theatre performances listed, all for reasonable costs, if not free.

There's always biking, hiking, walking, sightseeing, window shopping.

You've listed 12 hours out of the house. You have three more to go.

Didn't you say somewhere in your thread that you and your belong to a gym with daycare? Working out together is a great idea. You and your wife can work out together and encourage each other, admire, laugh, catch up with bits and pieces of conversation (in between the counting and grunts.)

When you are home, can you find some fun things you can do together, something that you both enjoy but especially your wife? Do you two enjoy games? What about - oh, what's that thing called, where you each hold a device and dance or play it like it's an instrument and there's a computer and music and software involved? Lots of people do that, whatever it's called.


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You're right I miscounted. That's 12 hours out of the home.

It seems obvious to add some hours on the nights out, but after 10 is usually our bedtime. The W watches kids in the afternoon and they are rarely gone before 6 PM. Then there has to be some time to get ready.

Maybe we can go longer or get out earlier on Saturdays.

I forgot about the gym. We haven't been in awhile due to the summer when we had all of the kids here all day. We could go back to doing that. Those never seem to end up being very good times though because I have to do it at lunch.


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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
When you are home, can you find some fun things you can do together, something that you both enjoy but especially your wife? Do you two enjoy games? What about - oh, what's that thing called, where you each hold a device and dance or play it like it's an instrument and there's a computer and music and software involved? Lots of people do that, whatever it's called.

Home never ends up being very good time either. SF is kind of out as being something enjoyable at this point. Our evening routine is such a chore that by the time we get the kids in bed neither one of us are at our best or feel like doing much of anything. That's why I like date nights when we can get a babysitter. They are in bed by the time we get back and we don't have to deal with all of that.

It's also why I don't like the free child care options much because we still have to come back and get everyone settled which makes it a late night.


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Do you think you can find a way to hire a baby sitter several times a week who will put your children to bed? The kids can eat before you leave and get their teeth brushed. Then the sitter will play with them, read them their stories, and put them to bed. Then when you and your wife get home, the children are sleeping and the house is quiet.

I know that baby sitters can be pricey, but rewards to your marriage over the long term will be worth it. Did you hear the call from a couple of weeks ago in which Dr. Harley told a caller that raising a family is expensive and it's unlikely to be able to save much money while the children are growing up?

The Harleys spent a lot of money on child care but they don't regret it, because they were able to preserve the romantic love in their marriage. Joyce was tired from caring for the children and going out was a welcomed relief.


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I would love to do that. But my W's main concern is financing it. I'd be totally on board with doing Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday that way.

Babysitters are $10 / hr in our area, so that adds up to about $100 / week or $400 / month.

Of course that doesn't include doing anything that costs money.

That's a pretty big bill for us.


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We have one regular babysitter already. We get her pretty much every Saturday. She couldn't come last weekend because she was moving into a new house.

I did put out an ad on care.com and got a response today from a girl that can come after work and be there by 6. I thought I should have a couple of them in the mix so we can have some backup.


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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
I know that baby sitters can be pricey, but rewards to your marriage over the long term will be worth it. Did you hear the call from a couple of weeks ago in which Dr. Harley told a caller that raising a family is expensive and it's unlikely to be able to save much money while the children are growing up?

That was me, actually. smile


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
When you are home, can you find some fun things you can do together, something that you both enjoy but especially your wife? Do you two enjoy games? What about - oh, what's that thing called, where you each hold a device and dance or play it like it's an instrument and there's a computer and music and software involved? Lots of people do that, whatever it's called.

Home never ends up being very good time either. SF is kind of out as being something enjoyable at this point. Our evening routine is such a chore that by the time we get the kids in bed neither one of us are at our best or feel like doing much of anything. That's why I like date nights when we can get a babysitter. They are in bed by the time we get back and we don't have to deal with all of that.

It's also why I don't like the free child care options much because we still have to come back and get everyone settled which makes it a late night.

FtF, what does the evening routine look like? Is it difficult for you guys to get the kids in bed?


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Originally Posted by markos
FtF, what does the evening routine look like? Is it difficult for you guys to get the kids in bed?

Some nights it's difficult. We get started about 6:30 after everyone is gone. By the time we do homework, dinner, and get them in the bed it is usually close to 9PM. Sometimes they are in there closer to 8:30 and even rarer close to 8.

We literally pass out at 10 PM. Everyone is up by at least 6 AM. In fact this morning, DS came in at 5 AM.


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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
We have one regular babysitter already. We get her pretty much every Saturday. She couldn't come last weekend because she was moving into a new house.

I did put out an ad on care.com and got a response today from a girl that can come after work and be there by 6. I thought I should have a couple of them in the mix so we can have some backup.
Good idea.


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Well, our date lat night was a disaster. Basically I got told she doesn't believe love is created by need meeting and that there was more to it than that. Also told that if I was trying to make her happy, this wasn't the way to go about it.


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there was more to it than that

Did (could) she elaborate?

And your response, consistent with the tenets of no AOs, no DJs, full PORH, and Plan A execution, was.....?

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Why does her skepticism make the date a disaster? Did she say that she wouldn't go out again? She may not believe that meeting needs (and refraining from lovebusters) will work, but does she have to for you to treat her well and take her into consideration in every decision you make?

Can you increase your UA time outside of the house?





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She has expressed that she needs more to be happy. She needs us to go out with friends together more often and she wants to be able to go out with friends independently.

The problem is if we spend 15 - 20 hours a week together we don't have time for those other things.

Is it necessary to have 15 hours EVERY week? Would it work out to say get 3 weeks a month of 15 hours and then set aside time one week a month for friends?


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