Another suggestion, RS: I think you should see your doctor (just your regular MD) about antidepressants for the short term. When you are feeling hopeless and can't see a solution to your problems, that is usually a symptom of depression, and antidepressants can actually have the effect of helping you to get out of that box and see solutions.

This is straight Dr. Harley advice gleaned from many many hours of listening to him on the radio.

Which, by the way, I suggest you (and everyone on this forum) do as well:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

You are getting good help from one of the best, here, rs!

When my wife and I started Marriage Builders, Steve Harley told us to "embark on a program of education" about the information here - and he was right! It took a long time to put everything together for our specific situation, but everything we needed was right there.

SusieQ - you are giving me such good advice and I sincerely thank you. I am going to read the links you gave me and learn and learn and learn everything I can.

I know there is no quick fix and I am willing to read and learn all I can and do all I can to try and salvage our marriage.

Even if we are divorced,I will not give up.

I am definately in it for the long haul. This I am sure of.

I am going to resend my email to Dr Harley

I can tell from your advice so far that markos is right that I am getting advice from the best! I am so grateful to you and all the kind posters on here.

I hope one day I may be able to offer someone advice and support too.

Markos you are absolutely right about the anti-depressants. I have already been prescribed them and have been taking them for three days now. They are helping me to sleep better but still find myself breaking down but I guess it is only early days yet.

I feel so blessed for everyone's kind support.

Who was your affair exposed to BTW? And how old are your kids?

I just wanted to reassure you RS, that your H may THINK he is following MB but he most assuredly isn�t. This relationship has started out as a live-in renter's relationship with no commitment, he has lied to her and after moving her in he made her the OW in a marriage deceptively. She was a) OK with dating a recently separated married man and b) being cheated on by her renter live in boyfriend.

Does this sound like a relationship to you where no one fights? I bet they fight like cat and dog. I'm not concerned about them. They have made you their common enemy. But if you disappear for a while, they will start to pick on each other.

I am a bit concerned about your Plan A. You were allowing him to cake eat between you both, which is not Plan A. Plan A is about standing tall and not taking any nonsense. I think he may have lost some respect for you during this period.

I'd stop running after him and being dramatic. I'd send one letter offering a reconciled marriage but making it clear YOU refuse to speak to him while he is with the woman he dated while married. I'd tell him it hurts too much and you respect your marriage too much to allow him to cake eat. Send her a copy too so she knows they have no 'common enemy' any more.

Then I would go NC on your terms, and ignore his laughable attempts at 'NC'. Just make sure you are not exposed to him because it will just increase your pain. Then you must build a really good, admirable life for yourself. A life that is attractive and will be welcoming like a lighthouse. This could be a draw for him at the right time.

I doubt his faux-Plan B will be dark enough to avoid hearing such news about you. It's only being done to appease his girlfriend. Plus his relationship will certainly hit the fan at some point. You building a better life and standing tall could draw him back. It may not - but you have to accept that possibility because you did have an affair.

His attempt to do MB is laughable and should be ignored. You should only concern yourself with a) drawing a clear line in the sand that you will not share him and b) ensuring NC so you can build a good life, and be the lighthouse.

Would it be appropriate for her to do her own exposure about the details and erroneous affair that she took part in, by talking with his parents directly, especially after she completely cuts off any ties with current/recent OM?

Would this and additional EP's begin to demonstrate her acceptance of her previous role in how things played out and displat by actions to her H, that he may find an inkling trust beginning to show itself?

I think it would make him think about her new behaviors spoken through actions, instead of just words.

LTL

When did you send your email to Dr. Harley? If it was longer than a week ago, I would hit Notify and let the MODS know and they will let the Harleys know.

Here's a good thread.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Hi Brainhurts

I have had a reply from Joyce. She has promised to reply to me on Monday the 21st. I feel very blessed.

I have also included what you said markos :-)

Susie do you mean my affair with the OM? My husband told everyone in his family, including the kids. Everybody knows. A while after it happenned I also confronted his parents though they already knew, and apologised for my actions and admitted what I had done.

I have told my parents and my friends. I have owned my actions.

I have a 7 year old son and a 17 year old daughter. My daughter is from a previous relationship. My son is with my husband.

Just a bit of information: My husband's girlfriend is also still married to her husband. She is only seperated as well and living with my husband.

Indiegirl thank you for your reassuring advice. It is very helpful for me. From what I know they did fight a lot and she is very jealous and insecure.

Right from the start she told him that he should have no relationship with me whatsoever, that our relationship should be a business relationship and she didn't even want him coming into my house and sitting on the couch as she said it was inappropriate as she deemed me as a 'single woman'.

Yes I am ready to dissapear on him and do NC. Be strong and be the better option and do not become emotional if I see him.

I am reading so much at the moment and trying to work out exactly everything I need to do. I have bought a journal to journal my thoughts and ideas and plans into.

I am looking forward to Joyce's reply on Monday. She said I won't be able to be on the radio as the time difference doesn't work but am so grateful she will be replying. I will post the link to what she says as soon as I hear.

I am so grateful to you all here the advice has been amazing more than I could have hoped for.

I am ready to plan and do what I can no matter how long it takes.

The pain I put my husband through with my affair was something I never want to put him through again. I was so selfish and cruel and heartless and I will spend my life trying to make up to him if only I get the chance.

Indiegirl

Do you think it is possible for my husband to turn from a renter into a buyer? Doing everything he can to make the relationship with girlfriend work?

He basically told me he was going to rebuild his relationship with her. I know he will try to use Dr Harley's concepts.

Will this work or just be destined for failure do you think?

I am very reassured by your post that this will not work.

So sorry for all the questions - if I do the NC letter to my husband and tell him I want to reconcile our marriage and will no longer see him while he is with the girlfriend as it hurts too much - he will definately know I am using MB concepts on him.

With him knowing this and knowing my every move - will it still work?

A very small number of affairs become marriages. Dr Harley refers to them as affairages.
In a recent Radio Show he spoke about affairages and said that he is unaware of even one that turned out to be a great marriage.
And he has actually tried to help them save their affairage!

Now your husbands case isnt a typical affair because you were separated for 2 yrs.
However he may desire to have a great marriage with this woman. But their behavior is a renter type behavior.
Its possible they could become Buyers. Harley makes it very clear that people can change behaviors.
However it is extremely unlikely.

It actually sounds crazy for him to say he is rebuilding hia relationship with her, as she is also married.

Neither of them are making rational decisions.

Your husband is a broken record, as I recall isn't your marriage to him an affairage?

I would think that it is showing that you have learned about MB. Which is a good thing for your BH to see this change made in you.

Though you will be getting to hear from the Harley's soon. So sit tight.

Hi Jediknight

I don't quite understand you saying my marriage to my husband is an affairage? When we first married there was no affairs on either of our parts. He was divorced from his first wife and I was single and had never been married.

In the goodbye email that my H sent me the other day he said he would honour his promise to me that he would never marry the girlfriend.

This is my only hope I have in getting him back. That's why I asked about the renter/buyer thing. I hope my husband doesn't become a buyer

Hi TheRoad

Yes I am hoping he will see a change in me. So hard when he is not allowed near me!

I feel so sad that he always used to come and pick up our son and have a chat or we would talk on the phone about our son, and come to all his events, and now my son is suffering and his daddy won't come because he's not allowed to see ME. My son is used to this and now he doesn't have it.

I wish so much I had never had the affair in the first place.

How do I even go into NC with my husband, if I need to communicate about our son, for example letting him know when he has something on, or organising when he is seeing him? Am I allowed to send brief texts or emails or does this defeat the purpose of NC? Just wondering if it's different when their are children involved?

Also about the divorce thing - I have been served with the papers. I do not want the divorce. I have spoken to my lawyer and because we have been separated over a year apparently he can get the divorce whether I sign the papers or not. Do I just give in? I don't want to take it lying down but feel I have no choice.

He's told you so himself.



This is not someone who is working towards being a buyer. This is someone who is rolling around in their cake eating and loving every minute. It will blow up spectacularly.

When you send him the NC letter I would say that his making promises to you like this is painful and you cannot be kept on the back burner any longer. I'd send her a copy of the NC letter too with a copy of this email so he can see how he is using her.

I have to say that his being a BS does not excuse this kind of behaviour. Even though my WH put me through hell, I would never have looked at someone else during my one-year separation pre divorce. It was not fair until the fat lady sang. I would never do what happened to me to my worst enemy.




I'd get a friend to mediate by email. Set up a non negotiable schedule of when he can have the children and arrange for them to be picked up at a neutral point where you won't see him.

Then let it get into a routine where not much interaction is necessary.

He needs to give your intermediary 48 hours notice if he cant make it for any reason. He can only cancel, he can't switch days and change the routine. Always have back up childcare in case he does not show.

He can't have you meeting his FC need and discussing the children and being flexible if he is going to treat you like this. You'll have a nervous breakdown.

Give him a realistic picture of what divorce will look like.

I'd get Dr H's opinion first as your case is slightly unusual and I'm interested to hear what he has to say.

I'd do whatever you need to do to protect yourself legally. A D is not insurmountable. There are people who recovered and remarried post divorce. In fact it is very common because many affairages blow up and the WS goes home.

Is there any benefit to you in your signing? If you dont need to, why should you?