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#2765741 11/13/13 01:05 PM
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My wife and I have had our ups and downs. We have been married 13 years and have a 10 and 8 yo. I surprised her with a trip to Napa Thur- Sunday. We have 2 big dogs as well. I arranged it so I had someone covering the kids and dogs. All she had to do was enjoy. We are staying in San Fran just for Thursday night our flight gets in 2:30pm. We will leave for Napa in the morning. She is really excited. She really wants to see San Fran as much as Napa. I found out I have cousins in San Fran. I met my Aunt 3 times(she came to our wedding) and now I can meet for the first time my cousins. I arranged them to meet us at Fishermans Wharf for an hour. My wife flipped!! She said there is not enough time for this. We are only in San Fran for 1/2 a day. I told her they are meeting us where we are for an hour and it was important to me. We arent going out of the way. She is acting like a little kid and being so selfish. I know this sounds petty but If we were just dating I would end this relationship. Its hard to say that but I am so disgusted. I couldn't be with someone that wouldn't give up something so small that she knows would make me so happy. Like I said we have had our ups and downs but where did this side of her come from?? I've never seen this from her. She is really upset yelling and screaming how the trip is ruined. I dont even want to go on the trip anymore. The romance is gone and I wont be able to fix this in time. What to do...

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Is this the first time she has yelled and screamed at you?


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No. This time I look at her differently now after 13 years.

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You are engaging in independent behavior, as defined by Dr Harley. You then compound the crime by making a disresepctful judgement by calling her "selfish."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
I define Independent Behavior as the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interest of the other spouse. It's usually scheduled and requires some thought to execute, so the simplest way to overcome this Love Buster is to take it off your schedule. If your Thursday night bowling, or visit to a friend of the opposite sex, or spending five hours chatting on the internet while your spouse sits alone watching TV, schedule something else Thursday night, visit someone else, and spend time doing something with your spouse. And whatever it is you decide to do that replaces independent behavior, be sure that both you and your spouse enthusiastically agree to it.

My ninth Basic Concept, the Policy of Joint Agreement, (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse), helps eliminate independent behavior -- any event or activity that is not mutually agreed to cannot take place. It forces you to take your spouse's interests and feelings into account when you forget that your spouse is an extremely important part of yourself, and should be considered in every decision you make. Independent behavior is a problem in most marriages because we are all tempted to do whatever makes us happy, even when it makes our spouse unhappy (the Taker's rule). We don't feel the pain our spouse feels when we are inconsiderate -- all we feel is the pleasure gained from activities that are only in our best interest. That's why the Policy of Joint Agreement is so important in marriage. It forces us to behave as if we feel each other's pain -- it makes us behave as if we were empathetic.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Dvdman
She is really upset yelling and screaming how the trip is ruined. I dont even want to go on the trip anymore. The romance is gone and I wont be able to fix this in time. What to do...

She shouldn't be having angry outbursts, but you should apologize for making plans without her consent. That was extremely thoughtless. AND....it doesn't work in marriage. AS YOU HAVE DISCOVERED!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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These are all true. I am just a family guy. I shouldn't assume she would be happy for me to meet new family members. This took me by surprise and I should have asked her first. I am just so bummed about this trip. We haven't gone on a vacation in 7 years and I plan a trip to Napa for the 2 of us. Couples massages, wine tasting, and no kids and there will be NO other extra curricular activities now. Great....

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http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.htmlttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.htmlf I may guess, the two of you have not been spending enough time together to stay in love.

Because you both love each other and want your marriage to work, you planned this exciting trip (marvelous idea) and your wifewas very excited about it.

Then it went wrong. And it went wrong exactly then, when she expected you to sacrifice for her and you expected her to sacrifice on your behalf.
If the two of you would be dating you would probably be in love and to reach an agreement that makes both of you happy would have been easier.

Please stop thinking bad things of her, just because she does not feel as you do at this point. She on ths other hand should find ways to make her needs known to you in a more constructive way.

Read up on the giver and the taker here under "basic concepts".


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You feel "bummed" because of all the lovebusters flying between the two of you. You have been demanding and disrespectful and she has had angry outbursts. This will drain any person's love.

So, make a commitment to never be demanding or disrespectful again. Read up on these lovebusters to learn how to avoid them. Also read up on the Policy of Joint Agreement.

Go on the trip with your wife. Focus on each other WITHOUT the lovebusters, and you will start to feel better.


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Feels like a lot of woman commenting. I will read to try improve things. Seems like we are becoming more distant lately so i will try anything. Thanks for all the advice...

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Originally Posted by Dvdman
No. This time I look at her differently now after 13 years.

I would imagine you guys have probably fought a lot in your 13 years. Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts? He explains the concept of the Love Bank - behaviors like fighting result in love bank withdrawals, leading to your feelings for each other going from love, to like, to neutral, to dislike. Eventually the feelings will go to hate.

Your wife is asking you to not put your desires above her feelings. This is a good rule to follow in marriage - it prevents love bank withdrawals, leading to sustained compatibility and happiness in marriage for life. Any time a husband or wife does what they want to do regardless of their spouse's feelings, it is a love bank withdrawal - this kind of behavior, repeated, leads to the destruction of a marriage.

The way your wife is asking for your consideration is a love bank withdrawal - an angry outburst. It has a negative effect on your feelings for her. But what she is asking for is not wrong - it's the kind of consideration that is necessary in order to make a marriage work. If either spouse decides they have to do something regardless of how their spouse feels about it, it will eventually lead to the destruction of their feelings for each other, and of their marriage.

I would suggest the two of you get the book Love Busters. In it, Dr. Harley teaches you how to stop fighting and learn to live in a way that is considerate of each other and does not have any love bank withdrawals. It took me a couple of years to learn these new habits, but now we don't fight any more, and my marriage is very happy!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I know but a chance to meet cousins for the first time ever? They are going to be where we are at. It can't get any easier. My cousin even said this is your time to relax without the kids. Some hugs and pictures is all they need. She said next year we can plan a longer meet. I don't really feel like I am asking too much am I??

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Originally Posted by Dvdman
This took me by surprise and I should have asked her first.

I would highly suggest it! Dr. Harley's recommendation is that whenever either one of you wants to do something, you ask the other "How would you feel about ... ?" and if the other does not feel enthusiastic, you don't do it and instead look for an alternative you will both feel enthusiastic about.

You'll never go wrong following this suggestion. smile My wife and I follow it all the time now and the result has been that we are both happy after several years of unhappiness in our marriage.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Dvdman
My cousin even said this is your time to relax without the kids.

That's my thinking exactly - this is a special time without the kids - so DON'T fill it up with other people! Use it to focus on the two of you. I think both my wife and I would be upset if either one of us invited other people into a trip we were taking without the kids. (We have six, with one on the way.)

Quote
I don't really feel like I am asking too much am I??

Well, you are asking to get your way at the expense of your wife's feelings. That's the kind of thing that makes for unhappiness in marriage, and ultimately destroys marriages. I think it's not a very good idea!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Dvdman
I don't really feel like I am asking too much am I??

You are asking the wrong person(s). Does your W say it is too much, out-of-line, for her?

By creating an interdependent relationship where all decisions are made together you'll avoid these kinds of "bummers". FYI the trip isn't wrecked it if you realize what you've done to create this tension and rectify it with her. People that are in love forgive so long as there's a plan for avoiding the hurtful act.


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Please understand this from her perspective (likely perspective). A beautiful vacation with just you two, and now she has to spend part of that 1/2 day in San Fran by meeting practical strangers. Some wives would be fine with that, some would not. What matters here is that your wife is NOT.

When she voiced this to you (in a disrespectful manner as an AO) then you deemed her selfish rather than consider that imposing your plans on her was selfish.

Understand you are placing the importance of meeting strangers (yes, blood related, but you are both adults so these are basic strangers) above the vacation happiness of your WIFE and mother of your children.

So, back to the drawing board. Time for POJA. I would approach her and apologize for imposing demands. I would talk to her about the concept of POJA and decide a mutually enthusiastic decision.

If I were here, I think I would be more than happy for him to go meet his cousins but I would dread such thought for myself. I would be happy to be dumped the hotel spa for an hour instead. I would agree enthusiastically to that, which would make us both happy.

Your thoughts on working with her on this issue - rather than the blame game? You might get what you want and so can she.

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I have already apologized. I am upset but I want this to work out. We wont be able to take another trip like this for a long time. I will keep you posted....

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Have you talked to her about the concept of POJA? Remember, it's a method for to get "her way", it's a way to make both of you enthusiastically happy! It's win-win.

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So what does DVD do to address the angry outbursts? That's completely unacceptable, and he indicates that this is not the first time it has happened.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Dvdman
This took me by surprise and I should have asked her first.

I would highly suggest it! Dr. Harley's recommendation is that whenever either one of you wants to do something, you ask the other "How would you feel about ... ?" and if the other does not feel enthusiastic, you don't do it and instead look for an alternative you will both feel enthusiastic about.

You'll never go wrong following this suggestion. smile My wife and I follow it all the time now and the result has been that we are both happy after several years of unhappiness in our marriage.

DVDman, Markos is exactly right, you can't go wrong following this suggestion. My own husband really hates being roped into family/friend gatherings so I have learned to make sure he is enthusiastic before I ever make plans. I have learned the hard way that roping him into reluctant agreements always translates into an unhappy experience.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Dvdman
These are all true. I am just a family guy. I shouldn't assume she would be happy for me to meet new family members. This took me by surprise and I should have asked her first. I am just so bummed about this trip. We haven't gone on a vacation in 7 years and I plan a trip to Napa for the 2 of us. Couples massages, wine tasting, and no kids and there will be NO other extra curricular activities now. Great....

Independent behavior with family can be devastating to a marriage. Focus on living in the present this weekend with your wife and make it the most enjoyable experience possible. If you do look back at this event, the only thing you should do is learn from it. Ideally you would have said, "Honey, how would you feel about carving out an hour to meet the aunt and cousins for the first time at Fisherman's Wharf?" You might also learn from this event that she might say "no" and that means you wouldn't go because you both don't agree. Lastly, you might consider that you could have suggested alternate workarounds that your wife my be ok with such as seeing them another time, for a shorter period of time, etc.

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