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Radical Honesty. Transparency. New way of life.
Take a polygraph for her. That will show her you are completely willing to get out the truth and turn a new leaf.
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Well, we had our talk. I wrote a bunch of stuff down and gave it to her and she asked me further questions. The only thing I have not told her yet is some very specific details like people names and contact information. She says she would appreciate that information in case she feels like checking up on me, but I am not sure if those people need to be involved (I am not comfortable with her calling and talking to them about personal/private topics). But if she insists, I will give her the information - it is already down on paper. You owe her the complete and absolute truth. She has a right to all this information, so stop trying to play head games with her. If you want to ever be trusted again, give her this information now and stop playing cat and mouse games with her. Don't pretend like you are being forthcoming while you CONTINUE to withhold basic facts. What is the point of this exercise if you do that?? But I do have another question and need some advice - out of the blue she came up with a question about something that I had not done and she now feels like I did do this. I do not know how to convince her that I did not do it. You can't convince her becuase you know and she knows you will lie. And still LIE even today!! In the last paragraph you are still withholding truth. There seems to be no way to verify the truth, so it is just my word vs what she feels. How can I deal with this? I now wonder what else is on her mind and what she really feels about me. She feels you are a liar because you are. And even when you make an effort to be forthcoming, you STILL are deceitful. I would start by telling her the full truth and then offering to take a polygraph. Unfortunately, in one of our conversations, I did get a little upset and could not maintain my cool. That did not go well, but we talked about it later and I apologized - for whatever that is worth. Couple of other times we have both been emotional and I not sure if that is a good thing or not, but that was mostly when we were talking about the future (or lack of it).
Any comments? Sorry you caused more damage to your relationship by getting angry.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I offered the polygraph, but she refused. She said she would not trust the results based on what she believes. I might take it anyway and send her the results.
I did not offer the information about the contacts because she did not insist, but I do have it ready if she asks for it again. I am trying to avoid love busters, but I did slip up.
I had another question - my wife is discussing all the details with her family and I am uncomfortable with this. I don't mind telling them the broad details, but she is sharing all the intimate details. I feel even if we reconcile and go on to have a good marriage, I will have been alienated from them for ever. I do not wish this, so I was wondering if it would be ok for me to ask her not to do this. What level of privacy is fair to expect (not privacy between us), but keeping the details of the marriage private?
Thanks for all your comments. The tone might be harsh, but it is nothing that I do not deserve.
EDIT : I also need some details about Just Compensation. I see it is common in marriages recovering from affairs, but I feel the effect on my wife has been similar to me having an affair. What is fair Just Compensation in general? Thanks.
Last edited by rampampam; 12/03/13 08:08 PM.
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I offered the polygraph, but she refused. She said she would not trust the results based on what she believes. I might take it anyway and send her the results. Good idea. Go for it! I did not offer the information about the contacts because she did not insist, but I do have it ready if she asks for it again She shouldn't have to "insist" on your radical honesty. In good faith, you should divulge every single detail. That's what radical honesty is: not waiting for the other person to "push" you or "dig it out of you" or some such. You voluntarily offer all information - past, present, and future - about your actions, thoughts, plans and dreams. Otherwise, you're not really being "radically honest." I am trying to avoid love busters, but I did slip up. Again, that sneaky word "try." Go and LB no more I had another question - my wife is discussing all the details with her family and I am uncomfortable with this. I don't mind telling them the broad details, but she is sharing all the intimate details. I feel even if we reconcile and go on to have a good marriage, I will have been alienated from them for ever. I do not wish this, so I was wondering if it would be ok for me to ask her not to do this. What level of privacy is fair to expect (not privacy between us), but keeping the details of the marriage private? Great question! This is a POJA issue. "Never do ANYTHING unless your spouse enthusiastically agrees." This means she tells her family NOTHING. It protects each of you from the others' thoughtless acts. Her telling her family is hurting you. She should stop. What is Just Compensation in general? Thanks. I'd say (though other MB'ers may have a more informed opinon): - You be radically open and honest in the future (Never lie or withold information again. Ever.) - Put in place extraordinary precautions (give her every means to check up on you at all times) - Follow the POJA - Build a romantic relationship, using the 15 hours of UA time as your foundation for meeting each others' needs By the way, not only is dishonesty a Love Buster, some women have a strong Emotional Need for honesty too. You might review the info about EN of Honesty on the web site for additional insight into it. It probably ranks up there for her almost as high as sexual fulfillment might rank for you: without it, you almost don't feel like marriage is worth it. (just speculating, here) Keep going! Good luck.
"When you love someone, all your saved up wishes start coming out." Elizabeth Bowen
(Changed my profile name, as it was appearing in Google searches. Yikes!)
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I offered the polygraph, but she refused. She said she would not trust the results based on what she believes. I might take it anyway and send her the results.
I did not offer the information about the contacts because she did not insist, but I do have it ready if she asks for it again. I am trying to avoid love busters, but I did slip up. Stop with the games. She already asked you for the truth so don't make her ask again. I had another question - my wife is discussing all the details with her family and I am uncomfortable with this. I don't mind telling them the broad details, but she is sharing all the intimate details. I feel even if we reconcile and go on to have a good marriage, I will have been alienated from them for ever. I do not wish this, so I was wondering if it would be ok for me to ask her not to do this. What level of privacy is fair to expect (not privacy between us), but keeping the details of the marriage private? The more people who know, the more people to hold you accountable and give her support.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here is Dr Harley's article on just compensation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.htmlAnd here are his thoughts about exposure of bad behavior. He very much advocates your wife's exposure of your behavior: "As you probably already know, I'm a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency -- letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you -- holding you accountable." http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=584
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you Zhamila and MelodyLane. I will give her my list. Now you did have slightly differing perspectives on the privacy issue. Everyone knows - mostly from me - what I have done and how I have hurt my wife. So they will always watch me in the future. I have been reading the "exposing the wayward spouse" forum posts and it pretty much seems limited to telling everyone that the spouse had an affair. Do the other people need to know the all the intimate details that the betrayed spouse does? My wife said that she has the right to talk to anyone about anything considering what I have done. She said that women talk and that I should get that into my thick head... Anyways, I want her to stop, but I feel unable to ask her based on my past behavior. Still unable to ask her to do anything with me. I asked if she wanted to get lunch (or a movie) with me, she said she would think about it but did not follow through.
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You can read Dr Harley's words and he clearly does not limit exposure to infidelity, but to bad behavior in general. This is not private information about your marriage, but hurtful things you have done to her. The more people who know, the better. Hopefully it will help you become an honest person some day.
As it is, you STILL persist in lying to your wife so she needs as much support as she can get.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Dr Bill Harley: "But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you -- holding you accountable."
See? He does not limit exposure to infidelity but to "hurtful" behavior. Such exposure "helps prevent a recurrence of the offense."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"Anyways, I want her to stop, but I feel unable to ask her based on my past behavior. Still unable to ask her to do anything with me. I asked if she wanted to get lunch (or a movie) with me, she said she would think about it but did not follow through."
Maybe you should stop being dishonest first?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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