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SadMad Offline OP
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Been married many years. I've lost hope and feel nothing....I just don't feel anything anymore.

My H had many suspicious OSF's, he's been cruel to me and been found to be a liar. I've tried to save the marriage, we did many MB's things...but failed in the end when I stopped insisting.

Tonight, he brought up all the complaints I have about him. Complaints that are based upon his behavior. Such as the use of porn, lying, involvement with other women. He acts (inexplicably) like it is somehow my fault that we have had to go through these horrors. He is outraged that a man who lies, is caught in porn, has numerous OSF's (which he conceals and lies about)drinks 4-5 nights a week, might have a wife who doesn't feel quite the same way about him that one she did.

Again, I just don't feel anything accept that I'm a sick to my stomach and wonder where my life went.

It's taken many years for him to destroy my love for him. I guess he's finally done. Weird how you don't know where the final line is going to be.

FYI, he has been agitated for 2 weeks or more; discontent, moody, irritable. It seems to me that something has brought his on. I don't know if I have another snooping stint in me.

Sound like an A to anybody else???


Thanks for your input,
SadMad



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Have you posted here before?

Were either of you married when you met each other?

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SadMad,
Your husband sounds like he could be my husband. I just want you to know that you have come to the perfect place for advice. Everyone here really wants to help those who need it. They will make you admit and own your own faults as well. It is hard at first, but it should get easier b/c you will want to correct your bad habits and behaviors that damage your relationship with others. You will also get the best advice in dealing with your WH. I am sorry that you are going through this difficult time. I can certainly identify. Our stories are eerily familiar. Hugs to you!!


BS Me 47,WH 49
DS's x3 17, 10, 7
Multiple D-Days
No disclosure by WH. No EP's, no transparency, no guilt or remorse either.
Plan C DOES NOT WORK!
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SadMad Offline OP
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Jedi, we were both single, 23 and 28 years old.

I'm guessing this has been a false recovery. It's been about 2 years since the last OSF. But the marriage has struggled and been pretty dead. My husband really resents the "box" he has to live in, which is how he characterizes a marriage with proper boundaries But that's not the only problem, it's just a small bit of what ails us. He has been angry for about 5 years about my interference with his life. He has always done as he pleased and the new marriage where I matter seems to grate on him, or something. He admits that he always did what he wanted and never considered me. He would say, I just never thought that you'd care about ___________ (name your poison). Now he hates running things by me. Like, should we buy the neighbors house? Why would I have an opinion about that? Hey, lets use your (the W's) retirement account to buy the house. Why, Why would I ever have an opinion about that!!!? Now I'm rambling....

Littlebit3,
Thank you for the sympathy and the encouragement. What happened in your marriage? Did it end as I'm thinking mine must?

SadMad

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SadMad, the techniques here will show you how to clean up what you need to clean up and then set boundaries on how you will allow yourself to be treated.

Your H will either respond or not, and accordingly your next step will be more clear.

Having a plan will give you a purposeful goal and a light at the end of the tunnel. Things will either change or they won't. Either way, you will have a plan in place to get from under the situation you are in.

Lingering in a bad situation without a plan is a terrible thing to do to yourself.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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SadMad Offline OP
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Sunny,
I don't know which plan to choose. I don't know if I'm surviving an affair, divorcing, or what.

Nothing makes any sense to me anymore.

I don't know if I want to save the marriage. I think my Love Bank is closed. Don't know how to open it and if I did what would go inside. I can also say that I can't seem to love him or act loving. I'm not hostile I'm just not able to give anything. I'm frozen.

I really fought for the marriage in the past. My H sees no reason why that should be true, in other words, the marriage was fine by him as long as he did what he wanted. Anything that I experienced in the fallout of his lying, OSFs, neglect, doesn't move him in the least. He's just mad that the new way of life isn't fun anymore. He had a 20 year history of having friendships outside the marriage with other women where he got his EN met. I know that now but I didn't know it for most of the marriage. He told me many times that he didn't care what I thought or care how I felt. I tried to cope and adapt to a marriage that had some weird dynamics.....not knowing about these other women. We have battled ever since I found out and put a stop to it. He flatly refuses to call these friendships wrong. He agreed that it had to stop but resents it. I, on the other hand, must not have any male friends....not even casual conversation with my employers......he's very suspicious although there has never been any hint of impropriety on my part during the marriage. I always wondered why he was so explosive about other men, I suspect now that it was because he had no boundaries around women and assumed that I acted as he acted with the OS. Could be.

I have to say that having my H act so self-righteous and wrongly accused and badly treated is odd in the extreme. NO SENSE of how his conduct played into what our marriage is today.
Just baby-fits over his terrible life. Kinda sick of it.

Where do we fit on the MB's marriage-on-the-rocks timeline???

Any help is help appreciated. I'm lost and in danger of doing something rash-ish maybe .

Sadmad

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Do you have children together? If so, then you would have a logical reason for trying to save your marriage. You are in withdrawal because your husband has committed many lovebusters and hasn't met your emotional needs. Furthermore, he doesn't follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, which is bound to create an unhappy marriage. Dr. Harley says that it actually takes very little to destroy romantic love - a few days of love busters is about all it takes.

I would snoop first to see if there is an A. It appears that he has a lifestyle of letting other women meet his ENs. So snoop quietly. Meanwhile, read up on love busters and make sure that you aren't doing any of them.

A great marriage takes both people adopting the marriage-building habits. Is it possible for you and your H to have a great marriage? Well, it IS possible, and you can start to prime the pump by reading all you can here and listening to the radio show. But your H will need to get on board, too.

Check out this article. Why Women Leave Men

You and your H should have Extraordinary Precautions in place to prevent an affair from happening. He should not have close friends who are women, because that's how most affairs begin.

But first, find out if he's having an affair. If he's having an affair, that's entirely its own strategy.



Married 1980
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Quote
Any help is help appreciated. I'm lost and in danger of doing something rash-ish maybe .

Have you read the When to Call It Quits article? Sometimes something rash-ish is the best hope your marriage has.

If I had kids together, I'd find out if there was an affair even if I didn't want him anymore, to bust it up so my kids didn't have to deal with him. Maybe even if I didn't have kids together I'd still bust it up so I don't have some woman I hardly know with a hand out looking for a piece of my retirement in my divorce nagging in his ear.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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SadMad Offline OP
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Wise words, I'm sure.

I have read most of Dr H's stuff and the web site all over and the radio show.

I'm guessing that I should plan A but I just don't seem able to muster the energy needed. I'll start the snooping. I think he has met someone at the gm. That's my gut.

Also he has a friend who dislikes me and this man was once a "counselor" to him at an old church. This man would believe NOTHING bad about my H and everything was my fault. I couldn't forgive well enough, I should forgive him and anytime he repeated an offense it should be to me as the first time...that would prove I was a good Christian. He believed my H when he said I was crazy. Yes, all the other women were just friends and I had to accept it. He agreed that some of the other women were not innocent (they were all single) but my H was just so darn fine that they couldn't help themselves...it wasn't his fault at all. Oh, he visits alone at their homes, calls them, is called by them, talks over the marriage with them (just for a female perspective, mind you), but again, it is not my H's fault at all. Sheesh. Also, if I were more secure in the relationship I wouldn't mind. I can tell you that was a rough time. I was even accused of having an affair with the M/C we were seeing. What was the evidence? Well, I told my H I wanted a separation at a counseling session and so I was signaling to the counselor that I would soon be available....yep, what else could it possible be?
This friend affirmed this idea since I was (in his words)a vulnerable woman. MY H was never a vulnerable man who put himself in many questionable situations...the only problem was how I handled it.
I won't have any contact with this man anymore and my H thinks I'm just out of line....he's a great man and loves us and me and the marriage. I don't know what to do with this disconnect. Untold damage was done to me and the marriage while my H was under this man's care. I once recorded my H in one of his rages....this man would not listen to it. He steadfastly maintained that my H just wasn't the screaming, lying, menacing kind...evidence be damned.

Then we were separated and I found MB's. I'm afraid many mistakes were made before.




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Can you put spyware on him?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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SadMad Offline OP
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Brainhurts,

I have a keylogger. I have a spystick for his iphone. I don't find anything. I think he wouldn't use the same methods again.

I know he has had contact with his "counselor" friend and every time it seems to rile him up. They feed on one another and this man only ever hears what my H says and believes all. I haven't spoken to him in 3 years. I know his plan before was that they would fix me so my H could carry on. My H is a helper and just likes to help other women, again I had to learn to accept it.

I should also mention that this man was very disapproving of me working alone with other men. I work for 6 different companies and 4 of the owners are men. Sometimes....not very often at all....I will have to be in an office alone with an owner and this fact is very troubling to the men of the church. Never mind that I am and have been strictly professional, never a personal phone call, no chummy conversation, my stated rule that my H is always welcome in any office at any time. Nothing stops the suspicion. It's wholly unbelievable that I am guilty and he is innocent.

My H is very angry that I don't want anything to do with this man or his wife. I don't call them friends. It's another example of my unforgiving nature. I call it smart.

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What about your concern with him meeting someone at the gym? Can you hire a PI?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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SadMad Offline OP
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Brainhurts,

My H's counselor friend is Ex-FBI and the only PI I know of in our smallish town.

Have you any experience in hiring a PI. What would I have them do?
Would he watch at the gym?

Could I trust a local PI knowing that that is probably a small world professionally??

Also,
I read all the When to call it quits and Why Women Leave over again. Interesting.

I plan on going home a rereading the ENQ and my H's answers. I will try the Plan A for a time. I don't know why the idea that it lasted for, say, a month and then it was over if your spouse doesn't come on board and start meeting your EN, was lost on me.
This sounds very difficult.

Is the idea that he will like the marriage if his needs are met and be motivated? I think one of his highest EN is admiration; namely the admiration of bunches of women, how can this be rectified? I'm really tired.

We have been separated 3 times in the last 5 years and that is not an option for me again. So, would I announce plan A after some time as a warning and if he moves not toward me I file for divorce?

I am foggy on the plan, but like, very much the idea of a plan.
Help.

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Originally Posted by SadMad
So, would I announce plan A after some time as a warning and if he moves not toward me I file for divorce?

I am foggy on the plan, but like, very much the idea of a plan.
Help.

You dont announce Plan A.
You just start doing it.

EDIT: PLan A and Plan B are specific plans designed for dealing with infidelity.
You need to snoop and find out if he is having an affair first.

Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 04/10/14 11:33 PM.
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Is he having an affair with the friend "counselor" who thinks he's so fine?

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SadMad Offline OP
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DQ,

Well, the counselor friend is also a male...not unheard of but I don't think so. (yikes)

Did get the PI. Found that he works out each morning and does spend quite a lot of time talking with one woman, the PI has not found that they meet outside he gym but they spend a good hour each morning in animated conversation. Sounds like a lovely way to start the day out right! It is my guess that they are developing a close friendship, which would fit the pattern. Also, it would put the marriage (again) in competition with this exciting new friendship. I just can't do this again....I don't even know what to do....

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I can tell you what to do: Read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR.
One of the case examples used in the book is an emotional affair in the gym.

They can have no further contact and he can lo longer go to the gym unless you agree to go with him

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Do you want to save your marriage?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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SadMad Offline OP
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I'm not sure what I want to do.

I do feel defeated and weary and foolish.

I have to take the weekend to pray and think.

I started a fund 2 years ago after reading MB's and it was suggested that planning your separation was wise. I am so grateful that I followed this advice. I can escape.

SadMad

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Originally Posted by SadMad
I started a fund 2 years ago after reading MB's and it was suggested that planning your separation was wise. I am so grateful that I followed this advice. I can escape.

SadMad

I don't know what you were advised, but Dr. Harley recommends that wives separate from their husbands if the husband will not end the affair.
He does not recommend waiting 2 years. He typically recommends a 2-3 week wait time and then separation during an affair.

However, you need to expose this affair.

Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 04/17/14 11:13 AM.
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