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#2797297 04/16/14 08:49 PM
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Hello there, I'm looking for some advice/discussion on my marriage. I've been lurking around here for a few months and am pretty familiar with MB principles (though maybe not as good at applying them). I have read most of the free web material, lot's of the forum stories, and have paid for and listen to hundreds of hours of archived radio shows.

First, some background info. My wife and I have been married for 7 years, she is 32 and I am 31. We have a daughter who will be turning 2 this weekend. We met at work and the first few years of our marriage were very good. I got several promotions at work and ended up with a gig that required heavy travel. This took a big toll on our marriage and made us both live more independently. Then we decided to try to have children. If I'm being honest, I was reluctant about it and really only wanted to do it to make my wife happy. That being said, I do not regret our decision and I love my daughter dearly. It's just that I think I harbored some resentment that helped to cause a major rift after our daughter was born. Approx. 1 year ago, I received another promotion at work but caused us to move from our home state (along with all family and friends). The upside was that the money was good enough that she could stay home with our child. The downside was that we cut off all of our family/friend support lines and the move was extremely stressful.

By the end of last year, we were fighting quite a bit. It was very hot and cold, loving/caring then arguing for a few days, etc. As a man, I stupidly thought that since I was providing well for my wife and managed to accomplish so much for our family, she should be more appreciative. I also would get mad at lack of SF. I now understand that since I wasn't meeting some of her more important emotional needs (mainly affection & conversation), she did not want to meet mine. I think I finally drained her love bank enough that one fight she started to come close to talking about us not making it. I was upset too but my commitment is pretty unwavering in this regard (I grew up in a divorced household and don't want my daughter to go through that). Long story short, it shook me to the core and I began to change my tune.

I was at work listening to Pandora one day and the song "Honesty" by Rodney Atkins came on. If you haven't heard the song, it's about a couple on the verge of divorce. I'd been praying a lot about what I could do to change the cycle and this song just hit me like a ton of bricks. Being a typical guy, I don't really cry much but I was fighting back tears for several minutes after this. So I googled, "Strengthening my Marriage" and guess what one of the first websites was? I don't think I got much work done that day since I was consuming every word and article I could. As I read each line, the logic started to cause a painful comprehension to set in. It's hard to admit when you've been wrong but I was happy to know that I could actually have concrete direction to help change.

Breaking this up into multiple posts for readability, stay tuned...

DDXD #2797299 04/16/14 08:53 PM
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I decided not to tell her about it right away, but instead implement something more like a "Plan A" approach. Mainly I just cut out all LB's and tried to be more affectionate and loving. This was pretty hard at first because she was still ready to fight at the drop of a hat and was somewhat confused by me not engaging and being more loving. It was hard not to feel hurt but I had to remind myself that it was going to take more than a few hugs to repair the damage. Luckily my LB balance must not have been too low because after a few days she started to respond in a very positive way (increased affection, more SF, etc.). I think by that point I had mentioned I'd been reading some stuff on a marriage website but didn't go into too much detail. Our anniversary was coming up (Feb. 3rd) and I had a bit of a plan.

On our anniversary, I cooked dinner, had the wine and a gift etc. But what I really thought might make a difference was a handwritten letter that expressed a lot more than the usual fluff. While I poured my heart out about how much I loved her, I also spent several paragraphs in humble apology for some of the awful treatment (particularly DJ's) and my ignoring her efforts to improve our marriage. To try and show how sincere I was, I held the letter and read it out loud to her after our candlelight dinner. Let me tell you, it's easier to write an apology than it is to say it out loud. But I swallowed my pride and did it. It had the intended effect though and she cried (mostly happy tears I hope) through the whole thing. I ended the letter with the following paragraph:

"To that end, I�m willing to do whatever it takes. I want to make building our marriage a new top priority. It needs to take precedence over all things. If not, we�ll simply keep casting it to the side when things get busy or stressful. It�s too important to me, and it�s too important for our family to be neglected. I think some real work and life restructuring will be required, but I�m on-board. I�m willing because I know it will lead to the greatest reward of all; your love. I do not ever want to risk losing you or the magic of our marriage. I love you and need you too deeply. All I need is your agreement, and then we figure this out together. So, are you with me?"

More to come, stay tuned...

DDXD #2797301 04/16/14 08:55 PM
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She enthusiastically agreed and we decided to start first by reading HNHN together (out loud to each other). If this was a fairy tale, we would have just lived happily ever after. Real life of course is a bit harder. I felt like I was super committed early on, but then again I had been spending a lot of time reviewing MB material. I started to get a bit upset though because I wanted her to dive in with both feet as well. She seemed content to just let me drive the boat. I was trying to gently push her toward this site for some better insight into the concepts but she would always just say that she would but that she hasn't had time. Despite that, she did make some major improvements and so did I. The more we both tried, the easier it got.

However, we have a real problem setting aside UA time. With a 2 year old daughter and no family around, there just isn't anyone to watch her. Nevertheless, we were getting in some and I always noticed how much it would improve our relationship. This culminated in a Saturday night where we spent at least 5 hours of the best UA time we've had in years. We played a version of truth or dare jenga and the conversation was awesome. We couldn't keep our hands off each other the entire time and I started to have some powerful feelings of attraction for my wife that I haven't had in years. In a word, it was wonderful.

But when things start to get good, it's so easy to get complacent. We weren't trying very hard to set aside time to talk, or something else always got in the way. And unfortunately, I still have a job that requires travel (though not as heavy as before). And right when things are starting to get good, I have to travel for 2 weeks solid and the work related to it is stressful. I called home as much as I could, but it just isn't the same as being there. So of course by the time I came home, the damage to our progress was done. We both tried to pretend that we were still feeling that closeness, but the truth is we had disconnected again.

More to follow...

DDXD #2797303 04/16/14 08:57 PM
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According to Dr. Harley's advice, I really wanted to spend as much time as I could just talking with her after coming home. The theory being that we could first reconnect before trying anything else. But we were both tired and took the shortcut to SF. So I reasoned that we should spend Saturday night just having fun together (trying to recreate that last experience). This is where some problems started.

I should note that one of my biggest complaints that I have been telling her for some time is that she does not prioritize me or our marriage before other things. When I complain about this, her response is to tell me all the reasons why she doesn't have time for us (cooking, taking care of kid, etc.). She'll pay lip service to my being important, but often her actions tell me a different story. And every time I get the "I don't have time" response, it adds to an overflowing bucket of resentment that is almost worse now because I have repeatedly told her how much it hurts me.

So when I brought up spending some good time together on Sat night, she gave me some variation of the "We have other stuff to handle" response. The thing is, she's not wrong. We have tons of stuff to do. My contention is that life is about prioritization and discarding time together in marriage is playing with fire. So, because of all of the resentment, it hurt pretty bad. She eventually agreed that the time was important, but then I ended up getting somewhat ill and fell asleep anyway.

And the day before yesterday, I asked if we could read some HNHN together with the little time that we did have. Her response was a somewhat grudging "ok". We proceeded to fight a bit and I told her that I certainly did not feel very important to her. Something kind of snapped in me...I felt very withdrawn. More than I could fight through. Even though we've had some discussions since then, I still feel withdrawn. I feel like I'm having to really force myself to talk with her or give affection. I'm just feeling very depressed...she's asking what's wrong and I don't really even know what to say.

Ugh, and I shouldn't make it sound like I've been some saint either. I've often come home stressed and not done the things I needed to do to meet my wife's EN's. I've felt stressed and taken things out on her. Why is it so hard sometimes?

On the off chance that anyone actually read all that, do you have any advice? I'm concerned that my emotions just shut down and I feel like we're drifting back to square 1. I don't trust myself to express my feelings too much either because I'm having trouble controlling anger and committing LB's. Should I just wait this out and fake it till my emotions change?

Thanks to anyone for reading and any advice you can give. If nothing else, writing all this down has been helpful. I don't really have any friends or family I can talk to.

DDXD #2797308 04/16/14 09:06 PM
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Welcome to MB.

The first thing that stands out to me is your traveling job. When can you stop traveling?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thank you for your reply BH. That's a great question. One of the reasons I took this job was because it would entail less travel. However, my personal value to the company has kind of quickly precipitated in requests to help on the road. While this is great for my success at work, it obviously doesn't help my family life.

I'm thinking about having a sit down with my boss and see what can be done. I love my job and I don't think I need to travel as much to do it effectively. The good thing is that I don't have anything scheduled again until at least June.

Last edited by DDXD; 04/16/14 09:13 PM.
DDXD #2797314 04/16/14 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DDXD
Thank you for your reply BH. That's a great question. One of the reasons I took this job was because it would entail less travel. However, my personal value to the company has kind of quickly precipitated in requests to help on the road. While this is great for my success at work, it obviously doesn't help my family life.

I'm thinking about having a sit down with my boss and see what can be done. I love my job and I don't think I need to travel as much to do it effectively. The good thing is that I don't have anything scheduled again until at least June.
Good.

So now that you have a couple months at home. How can you get your UA time in?

Have you read Love Busters?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Honestly, I don't know and am open to advice. I don't know what the heck we are doing wrong but we can't seem to find time. Also, I'm having trouble getting her to buy in to getting the 15 hours of recommended UA time. She thinks that is a lot of time and we are too busy. The biggest problem is that we have a daughter with no one to watch her. I have recently brought up trying to look for a babysitter but she is reluctant and thinks we should just wait until she's older. I'm afraid too but I desperately miss spending time with my wife.

Is a physical schedule a good idea? Maybe an e-calendar with times set aside?

I have not read Love Busters though I am familiar with the basics. I was hoping to read all of Dr. Harley's material with her but it seems like a slow process that way. Should I read it alone in advance of us reading it together?

DDXD #2797328 04/16/14 09:42 PM
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That's exactly what Dr. Harley recommends. He recommends to sit down on Sundays and make your weekly schedule.

I would go ahead and start reading Love Busters. Another excellent tool is the radio show.

Do you and your wife listen together?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Ok, I'll ask her about setting aside some time every Sunday to make a schedule together. When my daughter is napping would be a perfect time.

No, I listen at work when I'm not in meetings and such. I usually can listen to 4-5 separate segments every day. When I hear something that I think can help us, I email her the downloaded segment to listen to. She usually will listen to it at some point but I'd love to actually be able to discuss them together.

DDXD #2797340 04/16/14 10:04 PM
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That's an excellent way to start a dialogue with her is to listen together or ask about it when you get home.

Here's some good information.
The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also what about emailing Dr. Harley? You both could talk to them.


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Or what about the online program? You would have a coach and access to Dr. Harley?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I want to add to BrainHurt's excellent guidance a link to the worksheet for UA time: ----> Here
UA time is supposed to be the most enjoyable hours of your week (and your wife's.) It's the reward for you and your wife at the end of a busy day.

See if you can find some really enjoyable activities you can do together out of the house. Try and find some babysitters in your community. The Harleys had a list of them they could call. Many people rely also on friends or church daycare.

Make sure you avoid lovebusters and don't try to educate your wife on the MB program, unless she asks. Instead, continue to demonstrate it for her.

The sooner you can get away from traveling in your job the better. Traveling jobs not only create independent lifestyles, but they are also an invitation for affairs.

My H had to travel quite a bit for his job, and sadly, I grew to be so independent that I rarely ever missed his company. Life just went on without him. Then when he came home, I often found his presence a bit of an annoyance because I was used to life without him.


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

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Wow, this is all great stuff. I will respond more tomorrow and review what you both have given me. Thank you for your time and attention.

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Have the two of you filled out the emotional needs questionnaire?

You might learn a few things about your wife you haven't thought of. Often times the missing ingredient for one spouse to get emotional needs met is to meet a particular emotional need of the other spouse.

For example, most women do not feel connected enough to their husbands to have sex if their need for affection is not regularly met. And men do not feel like giving affection to their wives if their need for sex is not met.

Another example, (I'm making this up) might be your wife does not feel like giving you affection (maybe this is a high emotional need for you) when her need for family or domestic support is not met if those happens to be a high need for her right now. Perhaps you could offer to pick up dinner on your way home twice per week or do the grocery shopping.

One thing I try to do when we are planning our UA time on Sunday is to also plan our meals for the week and make a grocery list. That way my husband is engaged with my work load and can factor himself in to help me. (Go grocery shopping, meal prep, ect) Otherwise he's oblivious to what I've got going on.

I don't want to be like his mother and him just show up at dinner time! This can be a BIG turn off for all involved.

I'm just mentioning all this because you mentioned your wife said she is too busy cooking and caring for your 2 year old.

This leads me to believe she is not feeling validated for what she is contributing to your young families welfare internally as you contribute externally. I'm trying to help you be a team with her in that department. When you divide the labor like you are maybe doing, her on the home front and you outside in the working world, this can put you at odds. Add your work travel and you have a recipe for parallel lives.

So if your UA time/planning includes validation for her contribution (need for admiration) and support on the home front, (need for domestic support) you might smooth out some of the rough spots.

Anyway, I'm merely making a stab at what might help. But my point is it could be beneficial to both fill out the questionnaire this Sunday or fill yours out and attempt to guess your wife's and experiment.

Good going!


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I had not seen those but I'm going to print them out so that my wife can read them as well.

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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Make sure you avoid lovebusters and don't try to educate your wife on the MB program, unless she asks. Instead, continue to demonstrate it for her.
Isn't this the truth. When I think something is important I tend to obsess over it a bit and really become immersed. I've tended to get frustrated when she doesn't take the same approach, or doesn't have the same sort of reaction to a logical argument that I do.

The hardest thing for me to change is learning to respect my wife's opinion, especially when I don't understand it. My tendency is to try and lecture until she see's it my way, which is of course a terrible way to treat her. I'm trying to forcibly shift my approach to forcing myself to keep quiet and listen. I need a bracelet that says that or something so that I remember.

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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
The sooner you can get away from traveling in your job the better. Traveling jobs not only create independent lifestyles, but they are also an invitation for affairs.

My H had to travel quite a bit for his job, and sadly, I grew to be so independent that I rarely ever missed his company. Life just went on without him. Then when he came home, I often found his presence a bit of an annoyance because I was used to life without him.

Addressing the latter part of your comment first, I am actually somewhat relieved to hear you say that. Back when I was traveling 80% of the time, about a year and a half in I started to notice that she didn't even seem happy to see me. Finally we had been fighting one day and she blurted out that she was happier when I was gone. That hurt me terribly to hear and it was a source of resentment for me for quite some time. I see now though why she felt that way and I should have thanked her for being honest with me.

Addressing your comments on traveling increasing the threat of an affair, I certainly agree. The thing I do have going for me is that I never travel with members of the opposite sex, I tend to have very good boundaries around women (I never flirt, etc.), and the one guy I do travel with would keep me from doing something stupid as I would for him. That certainly doesn't make it impossible, but it does help.

The funny thing is that I just asked my wife to not trust me as much. There isn't any reason for her not to, I just would like some supplement to my will power. If I think she might randomly be checking up on me, or looking through my calls, etc then it might help me stay out of trouble even more.

She has access to my phone, all my passwords, etc. I kind of laughed reading some of the honesty chapter in HNHN. Who the heck expects privacy in marriage; what on earth is it you need to hide? But reading some of the horror stories here has strengthened my resolve even more. It seems like people lose their minds when pursuing an affair. It's scared me enough that I'm thinking about finding some legal way to protect my wife from financial hardship if I were to screw up.

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