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MelodyLane #2799992 05/06/14 05:47 AM
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I have to disagree. I am meeting her needs, or at least the needs I think she needs based on what her love language is and what the emotional needs questionaire indicated. Now, maybe you have a point that I may not be meeting then correctly. I need to think about that.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Well ML from what OP says.. He tries hard to meet her needs but she is reluctant to meet his.

He is not meeting her needs. That is the problem. If he were meeting her needs and doing it correctly, she would be in love with him. She is not in love.

NotTouched #2799993 05/06/14 06:00 AM
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When a woman is not in love she tends to prioritise the non intimate needs.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

NotTouched #2799995 05/06/14 06:17 AM
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Hi NotTouched.

I'm in a very similar situation and have been working the program here for awhile now. I know you're coming from a couple of different programs because I am recognizing the different terminology. I even know where MrNiceGuy is coming from. I recognize that approach as well. smile

But this is the Marriage Builders program, so let's talk in terms of that approach as it is designed to be a complete program all by itself.

How long ago did you two sit down and fill out the emotional needs questionnaire? Have you also done a love busters questionnaire?

Can you list your W's top five needs here in order?

Can you give examples of things you do every day to meet those needs?

How often are you getting out of the house together on dates where it is just the two of you? For how long? What are you doing during those dates?


Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur

DS(11)
DD(7)

Married: June 24, 2000

Recovered
MrNiceGuy #2799998 05/06/14 07:14 AM
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Just touch on some of things you mention here:
I have learned years ago to not sulk or try not to show any emotion when Im frustrated. I think that is why we are still married for 28 years now. Not to blow my own horn but I think I have done a WONDERFUL job just taking the blows of this frustration over the years.

Im a ver romantic guy, over the years I have always done things for her, come home with flowers, surprise her with "surprise dates", taking her out in a limo on dates...I could go on and on.

I like your suggestion of not doing everything she ask. I just started doing some of this more. She gets very upset because she has been so used to that. But I am to a point now, I dont care if it makes her made..."join the frustration". I know that sounds vindictive but I dont care at this point. Im tired!!

I have always told her this issue isnt about sex. Its about simple affection, thats all I want. It doesnt matter to me if that affection leads to sex or not. If it does, GREAT but if it doesnt then thats GREAT too, its not about sex..just some affection.

She has told me before to "just go get" the affection from her if I need it. That sounds good but what good is affection if I have to force it or just take it. Thats not what Im after. For years I struggled with why God gave us free choice however he wants sooo dearly for us to seek, love and follow him. Now I fully understand. He doesnt want to force us to desire him, love him and seek him. He want to "feel" the love from us. I want to "feel" the love from her. Hope that makes sense.

I am always touching, flirting, texting, ect... her. I have always hoped that leading by example she would see the light.
NOT!

Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
I would start working out. If you don't already.

Also.. Be outcome independant (don't show disappointment even if you are) if somethings not going as you want it to.

When you go on a date (which should be often) come home from work and tell her (you should know your wife well by now and what she likes) to get ready.. Your taking her out. (Don't tell her.. Just make sure its someplace you know she likes). If you go out for dinner.. Sit next to her and not across from her (easier to cuddle.. And stroke her leg).

Start framing yourself as the best.. And be funny and amusing in your conversations. Look for situational humor. If your selfesteem is low she will feel unattracted to you (working out will help this). She likely "can't put a finger on why" or tell you but she feels it since women are emotional creatures. Keep topics going on things she can feel or remember feeling that she associates as positive.

***EDIT***

If she denies you affection (possibly does if to her it always leads to sex) be cool about it.. Don't let it bother you. Smile and carry on like nothing happened.

Also.. Don't wait or hope for affection. Just go for it. She's your wife. Be the man. If she complains when you touch her (say a gentle drive by with a playful smack on the butt). Look at her with a smile and eyes that's ripping her cloths off and say something amusing and in a fun tone like "what?, don't ya want a piece of this awesomeness" flex your arm and walk away.

It will take time but she should warm up.. Especially if your working out and feeling good about yourself.

MNG

indiegirl #2799999 05/06/14 07:18 AM
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hmmm...interesting
Wow! It really hurts to think shes probably not in love with me. I guess I never really considered that or at least wanted to consider that.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
When a woman is not in love she tends to prioritise the non intimate needs.

NotTouched #2800002 05/06/14 08:10 AM
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NotTouched

It sounds like you have been working really hard for 28 years and I totally get that. You and a lot alike in that way. The thing had to and still have to get is if it's not working I'm not doing something right. So even though you may feel like you we are talking your wife's side we are not. She isn't here, only you are and I'm sure that frustrates you too. We want you to stop surviving in an unhappy marriage and create a loving one.

It sounds to me that you feel like you are alway sacrificing and as you are noticing that only make you more angry over time. So answer all of our questions so we can help you come up with a plan that moves you into a loving marriage.

Obviously what you have been doing for the last 28 years is not working and it would be insanity to continue doing it and expect different results. Let us help you.


Me 40M
Wife 43F
3 kids 9M, 5M, 1F

Together 15 yrs, Married 10 yrs, live together most of our dating life. Did not live together our year of our engagement. Working hard to fall more in love with my wife.
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Originally Posted by FightTheFight
How long ago did you two sit down and fill out the emotional needs questionnaire? Have you also done a love busters questionnaire?

Can you list your W's top five needs here in order?

Can you give examples of things you do every day to meet those needs?

How often are you getting out of the house together on dates where it is just the two of you? For how long? What are you doing during those dates?

Can you answer these?


Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur

DS(11)
DD(7)

Married: June 24, 2000

Recovered
MelodyLane #2800004 05/06/14 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Welcome to MB.

What about the online program, where you will be assigned a coach?

Or emailing Dr. Harley?
Originally Posted by NotTouched
Been there..done that... doesn't help

Who was your MB coach? What does Dr Harley say about your situation?
Could you please answer these?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



NotTouched #2800007 05/06/14 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NotTouched
I have to disagree. I am meeting her needs, or at least the needs I think she needs based on what her love language is and what the emotional needs questionaire indicated. Now, maybe you have a point that I may not be meeting then correctly. I need to think about that.

If you were meeting her needs, she would be in love. We can tell she is not. When you are meeting your spouses needs in a meaningful way, they feel passionate love towards you.

What do you believe her emotional needs are?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2800008 05/06/14 08:49 AM
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NT, I believe you when you say you have been working hard, but you have not been working smart. You have been playing pool with blinders on, hoping for the best. There really is an exact science to all this. It takes spending 20-25 hours of undivided attention time with her meeting the INTIMATE emotional needs in a way that makes her happy. It takes eliminating sacrifice and lovebusters.

You menti0oned you have been through the Marriage Builders course. My H and I went through it in 2007. Who is your coach? And have you brought your issues up to Dr Harley?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


NotTouched #2800010 05/06/14 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NotTouched
hmmm...interesting
Wow! It really hurts to think shes probably not in love with me. I guess I never really considered that or at least wanted to consider that.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
When a woman is not in love she tends to prioritise the non intimate needs.
Originally Posted by NotTouched
hmmm...interesting
Wow! It really hurts to think shes probably not in love with me. I guess I never really considered that or at least wanted to consider that.

It's obvious she's not. You would notice if she were!

Usually when needs are not being well met, the woman falls out of love first. Now you are following her in the path out of love, because you don't like her unloving demeanor.

She probably feels guilty about it, and wishes she loved you passionately, but she can't just make it so.

Sacrifice might be responsible for it. Doing whatever a woman asks does not make her happy. She can tell you don't really want to. What does work is to carry on negotiating until you find something you can do for her that makes you happy too.

The other thing that could be responsible for it is time. Men do OK without lots of UA time. That's because their needs can be met pretty briefly, in the home around lots of distractions. Usually women need dates that have been thoughtfully planned for them, have lots of interesting conversation, fun recreation and affection. Affection is not just a physical element, either. Some women adore non physical affection such as notes, and just remembering what she likes.

If you ask her does she want this she will probably say no because she does not feel that way right now. She probably values non intimacy more.

The way to do it is to think back to your courtship days. What did you do for her that won her? Did you spend more time on dates then?



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

NotTouched #2800014 05/06/14 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by NotTouched
I like your suggestion of not doing everything she ask. I just started doing some of this more. She gets very upset because she has been so used to that. But I am to a point now, I dont care if it makes her made..."join the frustration". I know that sounds vindictive but I dont care at this point. Im tired!!
You can see that the practice of going out of your way to "not do everything she asks" has bad results. You can see that it upsets her. Why, then, would you like the suggestion?

The fact that you do not care about being vindictive is telling. In a good marriage, we avoid being the source of our spouse's unhappiness. We don't take a don't-care attitude, or even become vindictive.

You are trying to get a better marriage, so why would you do anything that you know upsets her? Just exactly how is being "no more Mr Nice Guy" helping your wife to fall in love with you?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
SugarCane #2800025 05/06/14 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by NotTouched
I like your suggestion of not doing everything she ask. I just started doing some of this more. She gets very upset because she has been so used to that. But I am to a point now, I dont care if it makes her made..."join the frustration". I know that sounds vindictive but I dont care at this point. Im tired!!
You can see that the practice of going out of your way to "not do everything she asks" has bad results. You can see that it upsets her. Why, then, would you like the suggestion?

The fact that you do not care about being vindictive is telling. In a good marriage, we avoid being the source of our spouse's unhappiness. We don't take a don't-care attitude, or even become vindictive.

You are trying to get a better marriage, so why would you do anything that you know upsets her? Just exactly how is being "no more Mr Nice Guy" helping your wife to fall in love with you?

Intentionally, randomly picking things that she asks and not doing them is a terrible idea and will only piss her off. If there's something she is asking you to do that you are not enthusiastic about, by all means don't do it. But look for things that you CAN do to show care for her!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
SugarCane #2800029 05/06/14 10:36 AM
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***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 05/06/14 10:47 AM. Reason: TOS: non mb advice
markos #2800030 05/06/14 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by markos
Intentionally, randomly picking things that she asks and not doing them is a terrible idea and will only piss her off. If there's something she is asking you to do that you are not enthusiastic about, by all means don't do it. But look for things that you CAN do to show care for her!

I agree markos.. It can't be randomly picking things. It has to be things you genuonly don't want to do in the moment. There is a fine line in this between vindicive and self respect. Find it.

MrNiceGuy #2800032 05/06/14 10:48 AM
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A reminder to posters to advise using Marriage Builders concepts, or refrain from posting.


ToujoursMB@gmail.com
Toujours #2800033 05/06/14 10:55 AM
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Notouch.

***EDIT***

MB has good advice.. I know I lived it and still do but often its hard to articulate apropriately because of how mechanical it is all written.

Work out... Find positive energy in yourself while following the principlas here and project that positive fun energy to your wife and don't let her take it away. Try to figure out a way to follow the advice here without it being so mechanical in nature.

MNG

Last edited by Toujours; 05/06/14 11:05 AM. Reason: Arguing against moderator actions
NotTouched #2800158 05/06/14 11:59 PM
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My wife has always been a very cold, non-touching, non-affectionate, non-romantic woman. However she is a wonderful mother to our children and a wonderful wife when it comes to the household. I give her an A+ in those two categories. As far as a warm, affectionate, romantic woman? D- to an F. I guess this is why I have stayed married to her, two out of three is pretty good.

Hi! Welcome to MB. I am sorry you are in so much pain, so I am going to throw out some suggestions.

In the world of Dr. Harley- maybe a better approach would be to tell your wife using positive reinforcement what things specifically she could do to show you "affection" and "romance". For me, I don't know what those words means to you.
Dr Harley has couples write down specifically what they would like, ask their partner what would help make this happen and then practice/try it out for a month.

For instance:
1. When we wake in the morning, I would like you to roll over, smile at me and then hold me for 5 minutes while stroking my back and arms.
2. Before we get up I would like you to look me in the eyes and say good morning, I love you.
3. I would like to have breakfast with you where we talk some about our upcoming day while we hold hands and or or rub my arms.
4. Before I leave for work, I would like you to hug me, kiss me and look me in the eye and smile telling me Have a good day and I love you.
5. During the day I would like to receive 3 text messages just saying you are thinking about me or something interesting you are doing.
6. When I call you for lunch, I would like for you to take 5-10 minutes to talk to me and tell me you can't wait to hold me again when I get home.
7. When I get home, I want you to come over, smile at me and give me a 3 minute hug followed by a kiss. I would like you to tell me that you are happy to see me and that you love me.
8. During dinner I would like you to wink at me once and give me a smile. I would also like it if you would rub my leg.
(And so on)

Perhaps she just doesn't know how to do Exactly what you need. Write it down! It will NOT feel natural or normal for either of you for usually about 3 weeks, but then suddenly it does-you have created a new habit that
A. Makes you feel like you are receiving the affection you need (this is different for everyone)
B. She can feel like she is finally being a better wife to you as she has something concrete to work on.

I would at least stop calling her cold or frigid. It is Disrespectful. Do you know what her definition of romance is?

Anyhow, hope that might help as a starting point.



BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
Elaina7 #2800164 05/07/14 03:46 AM
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NT, does this sound like you?

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
When it comes to making marriage fulfilling for a wife, the "when mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" approach dominates the thinking of many husbands. In this time-honored line of attack, a husband simply does whatever his wife wants, in the hope that he'll at least have peace and quiet. But peace and quiet doesn't turn out to be that easy. In fact, the more a husband reinforces a wife's "ain't nobody happy" part of the equation, the more skilled she becomes in making him miserable.

In many if not most cases, this "give her whatever she wants" approach to problem solving begins during courtship. In an effort to win her heart, he showers her with proof that he's the right one for her. No one will ever care for you the way I will. Then when she finally says, "I do," he's created a precedent. For a while, he tries to maintain that precedent, but one morning he wakes up to face the realization that while she gets pretty much whatever she wants, he's left with little to show for his effort. His wife might like being able to get her way, but he's getting nothing in return.

So he decides to change his approach. Instead of giving her whatever she wants, he takes charge and makes decisions that are in his best interest. If she's willing to let him suffer to get what she wants, how about a little reciprocity? Why can't she do a little suffering to get what he wants?


.....sacrificing your own pleasure so that your wife can be happy is the way to make her perpetually unhappy. Instead of making her feel fulfilled, it makes her feel frustrated,



You say you've stopped making her happy which suggests you were not crazy about the deeds required in the first place. The may explain the current state of the marraige.

When a man acts unenthusiastically, not doing things joyfully but because he feels he should, he makes his wife feel insecure, anticipating problems, and her love starts to drain off. Then he gets frustrated and stops doing anything.

Dr Harley says this situation can be fixed with PoJA. Here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_wife.html


Last edited by indiegirl; 05/07/14 03:48 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Elaina7 #2800185 05/07/14 06:52 AM
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Elaina, great list!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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