OC is a little over a year old and my husband has said from day 1 (even before I knew about OC) that he did not want to be involved. He has even disowned my MIL for contacting OW. He has never met OC and hasn't talked with OW since court in December and before that they only had 1 phone convo that I listened in on, but pays child support.

I'm currently pregnant and things between us have been on edge lately and we've been arguing a lot. We had been arguing since this weekend and yesterday he had one of our mutual friends that he works with talk with both me and him to try to gain some ground. It was beneficial. One of his complaints is in the middle of an argument I told him he's not a man (because of how he was treating his pregnant wife). The mutual friend told me that he was "crushed" that I would not trust him to be a father to OC and basically how could I say he's not a man but then expect him to not be in OC's life, since it wasn't her fault. This changed the entire argument for me, but I tried to stay away from it since it wasn't what the argument was about. I was crushed to hear someone else say this though. The mutual friend went on to tell me how even though I hate OW, I should let him be in OC's life since it's not the kids fault.

Just last week my husband sent me a text one day while I was at work after a doctors appt for our baby saying "I hope we have a girl, so we can piss this b*tch off" I told him I honestly hope we did too (we already have a boy and I want one of each and this is our last) and that he would have a "daddys little girl" to defend him when OC comes around one day. When I ask him to look on facebook sometimes just to see what she's up to, he doesn't even want to see pictures (we both deactivated our accounts a long time ago, but he still has her as a friend on his and can re-activate at any time to look). He always says he doesn't consider OC "his" and wants to stay out the picture so one day if OW meets someone he can be a real father to OC. His mother reached out to OW back in February and he hasn't talked to my MIL since despite her numerous attempts. He always told me this was his decision before I even knew, although he knew that I would not be ok with him having contact with OW because of the history with her (8 year on and off again sex) and he completely understood that and would never expect me to be ok with contact.

I asked him about it, although it was counterproductive because we were in the middle of arguing about something else. He told me he really didn't care about OC, he only brought it up to the mutual friend as an example of "being a man" vs "not being a man" since I told him he wasn't acting like one.

We had a heart to heart about our other issues last night...but this is really bothering me today.

I want to ask him about it tonight, but I'm kind of scared of his response. I know that he's trying to change a lot of things in his life for the better and to be a better man, and I love him for that. But with the history and lies that go with OW I cannot trust either of them. My husband is spiteful when he gets mad, and I feel like him and I could have a fight one day and he might go to her just to make me mad (even if they don't have sex). I don't worry about any one else but her. I honestly don't think I could deal with him wanting contact. If I had known he wanted it from the beginning I would have left so he could be a father to OC. I don't know how that would work and I know OW would try everything in her power to use it to try to pull him back in (he always said she was like a cat that just kept pulling him in even though he knew it was wrong). She's been trying to get him to leave me for her since we were in college.

But now I feel like the "bad guy" stopping him from being in this child's life if he wanted. When he first told me about OC I told him I couldn't deal with contact and he told me he didn't want it anyways and would never expect me to deal with it. The email OW wrote to him to inform him OC was his because the other guy she tested came back 0% she said "I know you said you wanted nothing to do with this situation and I don't expect you to" so it was clear he made that decision before I knew. I gave him the option to leave so he could have a relationship with her and he said he would never put ANYONE before me again and people would just have to understand that. When I first found out we were pregnant he first said he wanted another boy because he realized he doesn't really care for girls (he has a daughter from a previous relationship who lives in another state also, he stays in touch but they are not very close) and all he ever really wanted was boys, but then changed his mind and wanted a girl to make OW (and his other daughter's mother who he doesn't like either but tolerates) mad.

I'm just not sure how to handle this. Is he lying to me saying he doesn't care but then telling the mutual friend that he does. I don't know his exact words to her, only the words she told me which shocked me honestly. I told her what he has said to me and she said that he only said it because he knew I would feel some type of way if he wanted contact. But that's not what he told me. Could he just be trying to make himself look "good" to the mutual friend and not like he's being a "dead beat"? She also mentioned how he pays child support so that's the least he could do. But that's not even true. He was pissed when she took him to court and cussed her saying how dare she ask for help when she decided to do this on her own and even made her cry in court and tried to argue over the amount.

Him and I are on good terms now...I don't want to ruin that by bringing this up but it's really bothering me. I would feel duped if he all of a sudden wanted contact now (I wasn't expecting that at all until at least the OC is considerably older). I don't even know what contact would look like. He is starting a non profit organization and is always busy on the weekends and he doesn't really "do babies" (even with our son he didn't become close with him until he was like 2/3yo and that was living in the same household seeing him born and seeing him every single day)...and I refuse to take care of OC and explaining to my 5yo why out of no where he now has a little sister would be a nightmare. And there's no way he's going to OW's to "visit"...he even said before he would never expect me to be ok with that, that even if he was going to serve her papers or something that he knows it would never be ok.

I know I just need to talk to him...but I don't want him to lie to me and change his mind later. Everything he's showed/told me about OW/OC is that he wants no part of it and will deal with OC when she comes looking for him.

Just looking for some guidance. I know MB would recommend the Policy of Joint Agreement

No: MB would not seek his joint agreement on this. His not seeing OC is non-negotiable if your marriage is to survive.

I don't have long to post so I want to say the following:

1. You should not be fighting, ever. Fighting is ruining your marriage and making his relationship with OW seem attractive to him.

2. His "wanting to piss off OW" is a sign that he is still invested with her and is not succeeding in simply blocking her from his mind. He shouldn't want to have ANY effect on her. He should be working on making her dead to him. I suspect that there is already some form of contact with OC and I think this is through his FB account. He is probably looking at pictures of her, and reading OW's updates.

3. You shouldn't ask him how he feels about contacting OC because he is simply not allowed to do that while he is married to you. However,

4. You should spy on him. As I said, I suspect some form of contact.

5. You should move this thread to the forum Surviving an Affair. I don't think there is any particular benefit to you having the thread in the OC forum, but you will get much more attention in SaA. Click "notify" and ask for it to be moved.

Thank you for the response. I don't feel like he's in contact in anyway, but I could be wrong (I never felt like he was in contact with her the entire time he was to begin with). I do have a fake facebook account I use at work to look at her page on my own. I also feel like all attractiveness to the OW was lost when she had OC and didn't know who the father was (he did admit he was mad because he thought the periods of times they were sleeping together that he was the only one she was sleeping with, not sure why since she slept with every single one of my friends boyfriends in college) and didn't tell him until she was 5 months leaving him no choice to even voice the fact that he wanted an abortion (even though she wouldn't have gone for it).

I will move the thread. I'm always a little nervous posting outside of this forum because I know not everyone understands the delicate situation of OW/OC. Even the mutual friend couldn't understand not having contact, I know a lot of people who think no matter what a father should be in their child's life. It's hard to understand when you haven't been through this.

Disclaimer: I usually only post in the Pregnancy/Child Forum, but was suggested to move this to this forum. I understand not everyone understands the delicate situation that an Other Child (OC) brings about. Please read with that in mind...

OC is a little over a year old and my husband has said from day 1 (even before I knew about OC) that he did not want to be involved. He has even disowned my MIL for contacting OW. He has never met OC and hasn't talked with OW since court in December and before that they only had 1 phone convo that I listened in on, but pays child support.

I'm currently pregnant and things between us have been on edge lately and we've been arguing a lot. We had been arguing since this weekend and yesterday he had one of our mutual friends that he works with talk with both me and him to try to gain some ground. It was beneficial. One of his complaints is in the middle of an argument I told him he's not a man (because of how he was treating his pregnant wife). The mutual friend told me that he was "crushed" that I would not trust him to be a father to OC and basically how could I say he's not a man but then expect him to not be in OC's life, since it wasn't her fault. This changed the entire argument for me, but I tried to stay away from it since it wasn't what the argument was about. I was crushed to hear someone else say this though. The mutual friend went on to tell me how even though I hate OW, I should let him be in OC's life since it's not the kids fault.

Just last week my husband sent me a text one day while I was at work after a doctors appt for our baby saying "I hope we have a girl, so we can piss this b*tch off" I told him I honestly hope we did too (we already have a boy and I want one of each and this is our last) and that he would have a "daddys little girl" to defend him when OC comes around one day. When I ask him to look on facebook sometimes just to see what she's up to, he doesn't even want to see pictures (we both deactivated our accounts a long time ago, but he still has her as a friend on his and can re-activate at any time to look). He always says he doesn't consider OC "his" and wants to stay out the picture so one day if OW meets someone he can be a real father to OC. His mother reached out to OW back in February and he hasn't talked to my MIL since despite her numerous attempts. He always told me this was his decision before I even knew, although he knew that I would not be ok with him having contact with OW because of the history with her (8 year on and off again sex) and he completely understood that and would never expect me to be ok with contact.

I asked him about it, although it was counterproductive because we were in the middle of arguing about something else. He told me he really didn't care about OC, he only brought it up to the mutual friend as an example of "being a man" vs "not being a man" since I told him he wasn't acting like one.

We had a heart to heart about our other issues last night...but this is really bothering me today.

I want to ask him about it tonight, but I'm kind of scared of his response. I know that he's trying to change a lot of things in his life for the better and to be a better man, and I love him for that. But with the history and lies that go with OW I cannot trust either of them. My husband is spiteful when he gets mad, and I feel like him and I could have a fight one day and he might go to her just to make me mad (even if they don't have sex). I don't worry about any one else but her. I honestly don't think I could deal with him wanting contact. If I had known he wanted it from the beginning I would have left so he could be a father to OC. I don't know how that would work and I know OW would try everything in her power to use it to try to pull him back in (he always said she was like a cat that just kept pulling him in even though he knew it was wrong). She's been trying to get him to leave me for her since we were in college.

But now I feel like the "bad guy" stopping him from being in this child's life if he wanted. When he first told me about OC I told him I couldn't deal with contact and he told me he didn't want it anyways and would never expect me to deal with it. The email OW wrote to him to inform him OC was his because the other guy she tested came back 0% she said "I know you said you wanted nothing to do with this situation and I don't expect you to" so it was clear he made that decision before I knew. I gave him the option to leave so he could have a relationship with her and he said he would never put ANYONE before me again and people would just have to understand that. When I first found out we were pregnant he first said he wanted another boy because he realized he doesn't really care for girls (he has a daughter from a previous relationship who lives in another state also, he stays in touch but they are not very close) and all he ever really wanted was boys, but then changed his mind and wanted a girl to make OW (and his other daughter's mother who he doesn't like either but tolerates) mad.

I'm just not sure how to handle this. Is he lying to me saying he doesn't care but then telling the mutual friend that he does. I don't know his exact words to her, only the words she told me which shocked me honestly. I told her what he has said to me and she said that he only said it because he knew I would feel some type of way if he wanted contact. But that's not what he told me. Could he just be trying to make himself look "good" to the mutual friend and not like he's being a "dead beat"? She also mentioned how he pays child support so that's the least he could do. But that's not even true. He was pissed when she took him to court and cussed her saying how dare she ask for help when she decided to do this on her own and even made her cry in court and tried to argue over the amount.

Him and I are on good terms now...I don't want to ruin that by bringing this up but it's really bothering me. I would feel duped if he all of a sudden wanted contact now (I wasn't expecting that at all until at least the OC is considerably older). I don't even know what contact would look like. He is starting a non profit organization and is always busy on the weekends and he doesn't really "do babies" (even with our son he didn't become close with him until he was like 2/3yo and that was living in the same household seeing him born and seeing him every single day)...and I refuse to take care of OC and explaining to my 5yo why out of no where he now has a little sister would be a nightmare. And there's no way he's going to OW's to "visit"...he even said before he would never expect me to be ok with that, that even if he was going to serve her papers or something that he knows it would never be ok.

I know I just need to talk to him...but I don't want him to lie to me and change his mind later. Everything he's showed/told me about OW/OC is that he wants no part of it and will deal with OC when she comes looking for him.

Just looking for some guidance. I know MB would recommend the Policy of Joint Agreement

This was the response I got in the other forum From Sugar Cane (thank you Sugar Cane!!):

No: MB would not seek his joint agreement on this. His not seeing OC is non-negotiable if your marriage is to survive.

I don't have long to post so I want to say the following:

1. You should not be fighting, ever. Fighting is ruining your marriage and making his relationship with OW seem attractive to him.

2. His "wanting to piss off OW" is a sign that he is still invested with her and is not succeeding in simply blocking her from his mind. He shouldn't want to have ANY effect on her. He should be working on making her dead to him. I suspect that there is already some form of contact with OC and I think this is through his FB account. He is probably looking at pictures of her, and reading OW's updates.

3. You shouldn't ask him how he feels about contacting OC because he is simply not allowed to do that while he is married to you. However,

4. You should spy on him. As I said, I suspect some form of contact.

5. You should move this thread to the forum Surviving an Affair. I don't think there is any particular benefit to you having the thread in the OC forum, but you will get much more attention in SaA. Click "notify" and ask for it to be moved.

There is a much better understanding on the whole forum these days that the advice that is given must be in line with Dr Harley's MB advice. His advice in the OC situation is to have NC with OC. This is especially easy to achieve (from the point of view of practicalities)in a WH situation.

If any poster tries to guilt you into letting your H see OC, I think other posters will set them straight. Also, you can notify on any posts that you think are harassing or attacking you for following MB advice.

lilbit

Although it is important that for him to have contact with the OC. He can not have any contact to the OW even through FB. He should unfriend her and delete any contact information he has for her. All contact he has with the OC should go through you or someone you trust. The arrangements should be made through you and they should not have any contact.

The affair should be exposed including the OC to as many people as necessary to gain support. It should also be exposed to you son including the OC. Plans to expose should not be discussed with him and should happen as close together as possible.

Read this article if you have not.

Right! MB does not say you need joint agreement to NOT do something - only joint agreement to DO something. If you aren't both enthusiastic, doing it anyway will ultimately lead to the destruction of your marriage.

And you should not be enthusiastic about this. Over and over again Dr. Harley has emphasized that for a FWH to retain contact with an OC, even through an intermediary, will make it impossible to recover.

As SugarCane said, STOP FIGHTING!

Telling him he's not a man is disrespectful - so apologize for having said it, and don't ever say anything like that again. Furthermore, Dr. Harley's recommendation is that you not dwell on mistakes of the past, so he should not keep bringing this back up. No more needs to be said other than it was disrespectful and it won't happen again.

He also shouldn't be making comments about pissing off the OW - again, that is bringing up his own mistake of the past. It needs to be buried and you guys need to get away from all reminders, and he shouldn't bring it up again, nor should you.

I would have you both end the friendship with this person who is encouraging contact with the OC - that spells disaster, 100%. It is dangerous, horrible advice, and for a person to be advising it, they are not your friend.

The reason for not seeing the OC has nothing to do with trust and nothing to do with whether your husband is "not a man" so these shouldn't even be brought up. It's enough that it would bother you terribly for him to have the contact. For you to recover, reminders of the affairs have to be eliminated.

My thoughts are: Don't use DJ's like "not a man" - to address complaints. You aren't going to get anywhere with insults except encouraging him to bring in a third party to referee because one-on-one isn't safe.

Don't allow silly third parties to referee your fights - simply don't have them.

Certainly don't tell him to look up OW on FB. That's nuts.

Don't be afraid to have your thread moved. The belief that a wayward father should be in an OC's life no matter what is totally contradictory to Dr. Harley's recommendations, and so nobody should be posting it here on this board. If they do, report it to the moderators (if people like me haven't reported it first!). Nobody should be hassling you over this anywhere on the entire Marriage Builders forum.

Og good grief, this is exactly the kind of post that should not be made. It is not in accordance with Dr H's advice and will only serve to make lilbit feel pressured to allow contact with OC.

Dr H says that there should be NO CONTACT with OC. The OC does not need to know its father. He or she needs its mother to forget about her affair with the married man and find a good man to be a proper father to her child.

Contact with OC - even if it is possible to avoid all contact with OW, which it won't be - is tremendously hurtful and destructive to the marriage. This MB forum exists to support the marriage, not the OC's "rights".

Don't ask him to look at her on Facebook - he needs to avoid contact with any memory of her, as do you. Neither one of you should take any action to try to find out what she is up to - it will prevent recovery of your marriage!

Dr. Harley disagrees with this.

It is absolutely NOT important for him to contact with OC. It is the opposite of important.

He either needs his marriage or he needs contact with OC. He can't have both. lilbit was quite right when she told him he could be free to be OC's father but he could not remain married to her if he did that.

I'm sorry thought I read a lot of Dr. H's books and articles I didn't recall anytime that he said to have no contact with OC. I'm not doubting that may be true but I just need a reference point of it so I can understand why.

***EDIT***

Hi, lilbit

I posted several responses on your other thread.

He says it on the radio show all the time - the why is because it makes it impossible for the marriage to recover. But if you have questions, they ought to go on your own thread, not the thread of somebody seeking help, because we don't want to distract them.


As I said above, I'm going to notify the moderators when people post stuff like this, because it is contradictory to Dr. Harley's recommendations. It's fine that you have a differing personal opinion, but it's not okay to post it here.

Dr Harley makes it very clear that the marriage has to come first and every step should be taken to avoid contact with the OC. Those links and quotes are in the stickied threads at the top of the forum.

It is a good thing for ALL that the parent stay away forever; not just for a few years. They should not use the POJA to negotiate things that are destructive to the marriage. And staying in touch with an OC is extremely damaging to the marriage.

He doesn't have any contact with her on FB...they don't have any contact at all. His FB is deactivated, but sometimes we go on to see the damage his mother has caused. We actually prefer to keep OC a secret to as many people as possible, since it's rather embarrassing to explain and he's not in OC's life at all.

And I don't believe it's important for him to have contact with OC (and following MB, it's not a good idea either). According to everything he's ever told me it's not important to him either. I'm just confused now since the mutual friend seemed to think differently from her convo with him.