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I/we have spoken about it for years, about seeking help and/or meds.

She chooses not to take medications for depression or anxiety or moods.

It is her body; I cannot force pills down her.

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Originally Posted by helpfordad
I don't think she even believes it was an 'addiction', that she's not addicted to this OM...that this was a one-off, out-of-character event in her life.
The most dangerous addicts are those that believe they have their addictions under control.

Dr. Harley responded to your email in yesterday's show. What did you think about what he said?


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Originally Posted by helpfordad
Mel,

I understand the nature of affairs...I don't know that she does, or feel "over"secure that it can't/won't happen again.

Again, hfm can speak for yourself; these are just my observations and thoughts.

I don't have a smartphone to download the app.

Then find some way to listen to the show instead of just saying it is impossible. You are never going to make it if you don't start taking some initiative to educate yourself.

I don't have a smartphone either. I have a crappy little $15 MP3 player from Wal-Mart that I use in the car. That little device (and its predecessors) saved my marriage! Personally, I needed hundreds of hours of education to figure this out. Hopefully I am a little slower than the average guy and most people don't need that much - but however much you need you will NEVER get it by just posting on the forum every so often.

SOLVE problems instead of STOPPING at problems.

Whatever happened to you guys doing the Marriage Builders program? Your wife was enthusiastic. If you don't strike while the iron is hot, you miss a brilliant opportunity.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by helpfordad
I/we have spoken about it for years, about seeking help and/or meds.

She chooses not to take medications for depression or anxiety or moods.

It is her body; I cannot force pills down her.

The number one cause of depression for women is an unsatisfying relationship with her husband.

From your description, it is clear that UA time isn't the highlight of her week or the time she is best happy and gets to escape from it all with her husband. That helps to explain why there's such a huge emphasis on making her career more fulfilling - she is looking for that fulfillment somewhere!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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UA time has absolutely got to be a time of escape and delight and relaxation for a wife and has got to be better than anything else she does during the week. She has got to be so happy she feels like a hedonist.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
UA time has absolutely got to be a time of escape and delight and relaxation for a wife and has got to be better than anything else she does during the week. She has got to be so happy she feels like a hedonist.

Unfortunately, adopting a belief that sometimes you just have to do without for a few years totally prevents this, and the program will never work.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by helpfordad
Maybe what I'm trying to understand or trying to accept, is that hfm either really does not understand the damage she did to me....or does understand, but doesnt have empathy for me for it. Or understands, but that empathy does not extend any further than her own feelings. What other options are there?

And in a way I can see that....while I would never say she feels 'justified' for what she did, I always feel that she is firm that there were, hmmmm...reasons? and she believes those reasons to be valid (eg. I was a bad husband, she was unhappy...)

And you really can't teach empathy...she either gets it or she doesn't, right?

None of this is a step in the recovery plan.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by helpfordad
Mel,

I understand the nature of affairs...I don't know that she does, or feel "over"secure that it can't/won't happen again..

This tells me you don't get it:
Quote
ou mean a FWS can't learn, be redeemed, and KNOW that they will never go down that destructive path again?

They'd be willing to lose ANOTHER job, MORE salary, the physical and mental anguish, all over again.

A FWS never learns to not touch the hot stove after being burned once?

Yep - understanding would mean realizing that ALL of us would do that in that situation. It is NEVER safe to go back into that situation. The idea that it's okay to go back because the WS has "learned" shows a misunderstanding of how affairs are not something that only some people are susceptible to or that you can learn to resist.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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I am waiting for the link from MB...will be listening to it today.

I can't force her to access the forum; I have stated repeatedly I'd love it if she at least READ the forum, as she I think is done with posting on it.

I think the online program could be beneficial, but choosing to spend $1,000 independent of her enthusiasm for spending $1,000 doesn't seem logical.

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Originally Posted by helpfordad
If HFM believes that she would never, ever touch the hot stove again, if she is resolute that she'd never walk down that path of destruction again, then she is na�ve to the power/ability of an affair? And could explain why she seems lax about precautions/protections?

The reason she is lax about precautions is because her marriage is unfulfilling and she just DOESN'T CARE. After four years of talking about precautions and affairs but not BUILDING A GREAT MARRIAGE it is probably clear to her that that will be put off indefinitely and will never happen. Precautions didn't get her the marriage she always needed, and Marriage Builders always seemed to be about repayment for the affair instead of building a great marriage, so what did Marriage Builders ever actually do that benefited her? NADA. ZIP. ZERO. ZILCH.

There is nothing at all in it for her, so why should she follow any MB principles?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by helpfordad
I am waiting for the link from MB...will be listening to it today.

The rebroadcast is on now; I have no idea why you need to wait for a link.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
http://streamer.marriagebuilders.com:8001/prerecorded.m3u

Quote
I can't force her to access the forum; I have stated repeatedly I'd love it if she at least READ the forum, as she I think is done with posting on it.

I can't see any reason why she would want to post on the forum or do anything else regarding Marriage Builders. There's nothing in it for her; it's only all about you. All it does is remind her of her affair, because you act like Marriage Builders is only about affairs instead of building a great marriage.

Quote
I think the online program could be beneficial, but choosing to spend $1,000 independent of her enthusiasm for spending $1,000 doesn't seem logical.

She was enthusiastic a year ago!!! Don't EVER let an opportunity like that pass again.

Meanwhile, win back your reluctant wife. Start listening to the radio show and learning how to do that.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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I'm sorry, but...I've eliminated AOs, I initiate the Rec Comp (she'd just lay in bed all day), I am a great listener/conversation, and the Sexual Fulfillment is not as often as I'd like, or as fulfilling for me as it seems for her...I give her affection...

I'm really sick and tired of this -- you try living with a person who you have to prop up CONSTANTLY...who is always apologizing for how needy she is...I do EVERYTHING in this house...the food shopping, the cooking, the cleaning...during her affair, while she was in grad school I carried this family...

She hates her profession -- never liked it from the get go, parents forced her into it -- dysfunctional family, always drama and angst...depressed, anxious...either won't take meds, or gets a prescription and weans herself off of it when she gets tired of taking it...

Wouldn't write a NC letter to end the affair, fought changing her contact information...refused to leave the job where she had her affair...attempted to contact OM a year after affair ended...rejects the idea that the BS actually can set the EPs...wants to negotiate EPs...is OK with independent behavior...

And I AM the reason she's depressed?

Than I must be CLINICAL in mine.


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Originally Posted by helpfordad
I sense she thinks "because he was a bad husband Pre-A, he is not afforded any special powers Post-A". That SHE will be in charge of HER conditions.

Of course she is supposed to be in charge of her conditions. Marriage Builders is a plan for joint control.

YOU have to take the initiative to create a situation that is a WIN for her, as well as being a win for you.

She should be selfish, and you should reinforce that as being a good thing. Neither of you should be selfish to the point that you want to benefit at the other's expense, though, so of course her taking that job is off of the table.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Christ I must be unclear in what I'm writing...

For the love of all that is good: I WANT IT TO BE JOINT!

I WANT TO FOLLOW MB TO RESTORE THE MARRIAGE!

I AM NOT THE ONE ARGUING/FIGHTING FOLLOWING EPS OR POJA!!!!

I AM NOT THE ONE WHO IS OKAY MAKING A DECISION IN SPITE OF MY SPOUSE'S FEELINGS.

I'm going to listen now.

I can't stay here defending MY actions because I have a spouse reluctant to work the program.

Maybe I need to follow her lead and give this forum a rest.

All of you have a good day.

Last edited by helpfordad; 09/16/14 10:25 AM.
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HFD,

I have refrained from posting until now. I think you should prepare for separation if your WW chooses to take the job. IMO she is acting like an ungrateful brat!! That she is guilting you over this job AT ALL shows that you are not her priority. Four years later she still doesn't care, is clueless and/or insensitive.

Sorry you are struggling.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by helpfordad
I'm really sick and tired of this -- you try living with a person who you have to prop up CONSTANTLY...who is always apologizing for how needy she is...

It is not going to get better until both of you accept that her needs are valid, and they get met. Not her washing the dishes needs - her being swept off of her feet needs. The UA time you described is not sweeping her off of her feet, and the "propping up" you are describing in this post is definitely not going to do that. So stop SACRIFICING to meet needs that aren't going to win her, and start WINNING her in a way that you ENJOY.

Quote
Wouldn't write a NC letter to end the affair, fought changing her contact information...refused to leave the job where she had her affair...attempted to contact OM a year after affair ended...rejects the idea that the BS actually can set the EPs...wants to negotiate EPs...is OK with independent behavior...

Kind of like how you have fought us at every turn.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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At least me, HFD, I am HERE...HERE, trying to learn.

I interact with you, ask questions, strive to get it right.



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Black Raven,

Thanks for your understanding.

I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by helpfordad
Markos,

I really don't know anymore.

She's often depressed, rarely expresses happiness...sad about her mother's recent death and family issues. She hates her job, expresses just wanting to lay in bed most of the time.

You have got to save her from this, and it won't come by doing the dishes or keeping your son in school.

Quote
We get our UA time, but conversation is okay until there's disagreement, then it deteriorates. Affection isn't bad...not much rec except for a walk a few times a week.

This sounds completely lackluster. The ONE thing that would have motivated her to realize she could get something out of Marriage Builders, and it sounds totally, utterly sucky. Nothing there for her, and that's the good part of Marriage Builders, so why would she have any interest in the parts of Marriage Builders that benefit you?

No reason to even mention sexual fulfillment, since that's not a typical need of most wives, and definitely not a top need for a wife in withdrawal.

There is no reason to expect that she is going to be interested in your feelings, your fulfillment, or your cares until her marriage is fulfilling for her.

She's not getting anything out of this. Maybe clean dishes, but that's it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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