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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Melody, I was'nt trying to convince you of anything, merely responding. I was explaining why she was there, you made the assumption that she was sleeping with him. So you are saving me from works of darkness. This is based on what? Because she had affair and is pregnant? I have read surviving an affairs in the blogs, then you say you wont encourage me to be in a sinful relationship. So no relationships can survive an A because it is sinful? I am confused.


Yes, I know you are confused, which is why we are trying to help you. You Claim to be a Christian so I am supporting my points from that perspective. Yes, I believe it was your wife's BF who got her pregnant and that is why she runs to him. You have been thrown off the track chasing some supposed "one night stands."

I think that you are so anxious to offer inappropriate forgiveness that you are not using good judgement. Yes you are allowing yourself and your son to be harmed by your wife. That is NOT Christianity.

You came to the wrong place to get validation for unwise choices.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
not caring what happens to her or the unborn innocent child, wash my hands of it and dont look back is what you suggest, no care for our fellow person. That sounds too easy. It doesnt sound like Christian based thinking from my perspective. WWJD?


I wanted to comment on this. Jesus does not command us to love and care for all people in the world equally. For example, I am commanded to love my wife above everyone else. If I see a damsel in distress, I typically don't help her, because doing so would offend my wife - it would be me taking what is due to my wife, as a Christian husband, and giving it to somebody else.

In the same way I do not care for other children with the same level of effort that I give for my own. Yes, I love children - no, I don't take the time and attention my children need from their father to give to other children, no matter how much they need it.

One situation I have seen here is where a man has an affair and fathers a child with his mistress, then repents and wants to keep his marriage. If that is the case, he CANNOT provide care for the child of the affair. If he does, it will be at the expense of his wife and any children he has with his wife. He might owe it to that child, but he can't pay that debt, because he already owes it all to a prior commitment: his wife and kids. That is sad but it is true, and if he tries to be present and raise that child it will destroy his marriage and harm his wife and kids - I've seen it happen, right here.

There is no obligation to you to raise another man's child, not even from God. That is a decision for you to make. Jesus Himself established that a man has the right to divorce his wife for unfaithfulness, and a man who does that is not any less pleasing to Jesus for taking that blessing that Jesus gave him. He's not any less unloving, either.

So it's up to you. If you want to raise the child, I know Dr. Harley's advice would be for you to NOT consent to any paternity checks unless a court requires them, to have yourself listed as the child's father on the birth certificate, and for you and your wife to both end all contact with all former lovers for life. Do not even accept child support, and definitely do not arrange any visitation.

If your wife won't accept this arrangement, or you try to deviate from it, the chances are that your marriage will not succeed and you'll soon find yourself on #4. The path to success here is narrow.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Your unwarranted "forgiveness" is not Christian, and not in her best interest or yours. If I were you I would be setting up a DNA test to see if the boyfriend is the father. He very likely is.

Dr Harley, a Christian theologian, writes about the misuse of forgiveness: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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The boyfiend is the father of my stepdaughter 7, she stayed with him, and sometimes his mom, because there was no other place for her to go. I have full access to her phone, her email, and her passwords. We have set very strict rules for our survival. The ex has a live in girlfriend too, so not thinking there was anything going on. Not trying to be stupid, just being logical. We decided we needed to seperate, and that was the only place she had to go. She has been home since saturday, and everything has been going well. i have emailed the DR. And we will isten to the radio programs. Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Like I said, I think that is because you are here for validation of poor choices, not to get sound advice. So, of course you are not going to like to hear anything that goes against your already formed opinion. No one here is going to encourage you to make poor choices based on bad reasoning.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
The boyfiend is the father of my stepdaughter 7, she stayed with him, and sometimes his mom, because there was no other place for her to go. I have full access to her phone, her email, and her passwords. We have set very strict rules for our survival. The ex has a live in girlfriend too, so not thinking there was anything going on. Not trying to be stupid, just being logical. We decided we needed to seperate, and that was the only place she had to go. She has been home since saturday, and everything has been going well. i have emailed the DR. And we will isten to the radio programs. Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Let me make it very clear that a marriage cannot survive continued contact with former lovers. If you want to stay married to her, she needs to discontinue contact with the boyfriend, for life.

There is no other way.

A smart man learns from his own mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Learn from the dozens who've come before you here: continued contact does not and cannot work.

There are plenty of people here who can show you and her how no contact for life can work in your situation.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Most of us make it a policy not to encourage people to believe that something can work when we know for a fact it can't. We do that because we love people and want to help them.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Sounds like a very sick young woman who has no business being married to anyone. I'm not sure why you continue to put yourself in a position of being abused by her like this. Seems more like a father trying to rescue a daughter than a marriage.

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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Most of us make it a policy not to encourage people to believe that something can work when we know for a fact it can't.


Thanks everyone for the advice.
Take care all. I appreciate the opinions, no facts at all, just opinions. This has been no help for me, just discouragement. I already had that. I will do my best to be there for my kids, and trying to save my marriage, but being here is just setting off triggers and causing me anxiety.
Now I have the daddy thing being referenced. Nice

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Most of us make it a policy not to encourage people to believe that something can work when we know for a fact it can't.


Thanks everyone for the advice.
Take care all. I appreciate the opinions, no facts at all, just opinions. This has been no help for me, just discouragement. I already had that. I will do my best to be there for my kids, and trying to save my marriage, but being here is just setting off triggers and causing me anxiety.
Now I have the daddy thing being referenced. Nice


Dazed, we want to discourage you from doing something that you are almost certainly going to regret in the future.

We have seen situations like your dozens of times.

A smart man learns from his mistakes - a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
no facts at all, just opinions


How about "I've seen a hundred cases where someone had an affair and did not break off contact with the former lover. In every single case, the marriage failed, and the betrayed spouse suffered terribly."

Is that fact, or opinion, for you?

How about Dr. Harley's expert opinion? Dr. Harley is a successful marriage counselor who has been doing this for forty years and specializes in infidelity:

Quote:
The first step on the path to surviving an affair is for it to end. An affair ends when the straying spouse ceases all contact with his or her lover and never sees or talks to that person again. Time and again I've watched what happens when a drastic and decisive break with a lover is not made. They try to remain "friends" and maintain casual social contact. But inevitably they find their way back to their lover's arms. It seems that when it comes to this one person, they exhibit incredibly flawed judgment and almost irresistible force draws them back.


Here is where he said this:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Sure seems like some very bitter discouraging people here,...


Most of us make it a policy not to encourage people to believe that something can work when we know for a fact it can't.


Thanks everyone for the advice.
Take care all. I appreciate the opinions, no facts at all, just opinions. This has been no help for me, just discouragement. I already had that. I will do my best to be there for my kids, and trying to save my marriage, but being here is just setting off triggers and causing me anxiety.
Now I have the daddy thing being referenced. Nice


It can't work if she is still in contact with her boyfriend, Dazed.

We have plenty of people in such situations who have ended contact for life and have recovered their marriage and can show you how this is possible.

Just because they have a child together does not mean they have to stay in contact. We have plenty of people who can show you how it is possible for contact to end. And it has to end, or else this cannot work, Dazed.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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It feels like everyone is saying that this WW cannot change. I feel bad for Dazed, since he wants advice that can save his M, not advice for how to end it.

As one who was in his WW's position years ago, I know for a fact that people can change and things can work out IF both parties are in agreement on some important things:

1. No contact ever with the OP. I held up that deal, and as a result OP went away. But that is crucial to M recovery. Had I kept contact, even the slightest bit, it would have destroyed my resolve. Your WW should not be in contact with any ex's. You should be handling all communication, even if you don't believe she's cheating with that person. A cheater cannot be trusted EVER (I speak from experience). And if she is indeed BPD, then she probably has self-esteem issues that she wants male attention to "fix"--including ex's. Help her flee from temptation by enforcing NC--I'd suggest NC with any males, if possible. All men will be temptation for someone with BPD like she has.

2. Significant boundaries. My BH was too lenient with boundaries, so I made them more stringent. Your WW, if she seriously wants to mend the M, must give herself boundaries and you need to enforce them. The more extreme the better.

3. Personally, I don't recommend a DNA test if you want to stay together. It screwed everything up for us since it forced the OM to be involved (and later we found out the test results were faked anyways). However, if there's a chance you don't want to stay together, then get the test done to protect yourself.

Dazed, I admire your tenacity. But things will have to change big-time if you want to save your M. Your WW can't use BPD as an excuse. Trust me on this one. It's a choice to cheat. It's a choice to destroy the person you claim to love most by committing the worst sin against them. She needs to recognize the severity of her actions, and she needs to make drastic changes. She must not interact with men, must not go out with girlfriends, and her life needs to revolve around you at all times. With BPD, that's the only way she'll be able to prevent having another A. If you really want to save your M, you'll both take drastic measures to protect her from herself.

I hope this helps, since I was in her shoes and know exactly what she's going through. I was glad my BH took me back, but I assure you I had to prove that I was worth the second chance. She needs to do the same.


Me: WW
BH
DD(4)
DS(2)
DD(1)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." (Jeremiah 29:11)

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"It feels like everyone is saying that this WW cannot change. I feel bad for Dazed, since he wants advice that can save his M, not advice for how to end it. "

We are here to give realistic advice, not to just tell people what they want to hear no matter how destructive.. This is not a marriage at all cost program. The reason this man should get DNA testing is to determine if it is the "old boyfriend" who got her pregnant. Giving people false hope is not my idea of being helpful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
"It feels like everyone is saying that this WW cannot change. I feel bad for Dazed, since he wants advice that can save his M, not advice for how to end it. "

We are here to give realistic advice, not to just tell people what they want to hear no matter how destructive.. This is not a marriage at all cost program. The reason this man should get DNA testing is to determine if it is the "old boyfriend" who got her pregnant. Giving people false hope is not my idea of being helpful.

^^agree

Also, wanthealing you realize that Dazed has had a vasectomy and so most likely didn't get his WW pregnant, correct?

I know that there have been stories of vasectomy failing, but there's alot of smoke around that there's a fire somewhere.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: wanthealing
I don't recommend a DNA test if you want to stay together. It screwed everything up for us since it forced the OM to be involved


A DNA test does not force the OM to be involved.

I commented earlier:
Quote:
If you want to raise the child, I know Dr. Harley's advice would be for you to NOT consent to any paternity checks unless a court requires them, to have yourself listed as the child's father on the birth certificate, and for you and your wife to both end all contact with all former lovers for life. Do not even accept child support, and definitely do not arrange any visitation.


Nothing wrong with him checking privately if he wants to know. But he shouldn't consent to any paternity checks anyone else is demanding, and he shouldn't allow OM into the child's life, or his, or his wife's.

Be sure to let Dazed know that this can never work if she stays in contact with her boyfriend. Can you help us reinforce that message?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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My recommendation for the DNA test is only to determine WHO the father really is. I don't believe the BH knows who it is. As Markos stated, it should not be done for any other reason.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: wanthealing

3. Personally, I don't recommend a DNA test if you want to stay together. It screwed everything up for us since it forced the OM to be involved


Explain how it forces the OM to be involved let alone to know about a DNA test being done when the WW, BH, and, child is all that is needed to find out if the if who the bio dad is.

Unless there were more then one OM. Was there?

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Thank you WH, I am not looking for unrealistic expectations, just some help in trying to do things the best with the decisions that have been made already by my W and I. We ARE going to try to make this work.
My W understands the severity of the issues at hand, she has been and continues to be remorseful, and thankful for the chance to fix what has been broken.
She has agreed to NC with any OM, including her child's father, I will be handling all of that from here on out. She did some of the same as you wanthealing, we discussed boundaries I had in mind, and she suggested we put the bar higher. She knows trust is at an all time low, and that i will need to have an understanding of everything that is going on, where she is, what she is doing for quite a long time, not from a control viewpoint, but to help us be accountable to each other.
We are trying to save our M, we both want to, it is tough for me to follow this path, but this is what i want to do, and what i have chosen to do after seeking many counsel, from so many places and people. i am not doing this to be popular, i am doing this because it is what feels right in my heart. I do not and will not abandon someone for making mistakes in life when they ask and truly want forgiveness. I would be the first with sin to cast a stone, i have needed forgiveness many times in my life and god has afforded me those chances.
I do not see the need for DNA testing, I know most likely it is not mine, but I will raise the baby as my own. I also dont want any reason for contact with the OM. If there is some court order in the future fine, but at this point i dont see a need, I need to work on our M our D20, S10, and D7 and our family. We had a great Thanksgiving, putting up the tree, and we are doing better than we have in so very long. We talk on a regular basis on the things we need to keep doing, the potential pitfalls, and how to make our M a better one.

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