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You are right Melodylane and I will do just that. ....thanks smile

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Originally Posted By: nique84
He told H that he must understand that it may take a very long time before I/we heal from this. H is not allowed to push OC on me but OC is now a part of my life...


So his advice is to UNDO all your healing in the future by bringing in the OC? His advice is to destroy your marriage in the future? How is that beneficial? If you want to heal, you must not have the OC or the OW in your lives in any way. That is true today and it will be true in 15 years. To think otherwise is to have absolutely no understanding of the dynamics of an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: nique84
Didn't realize I could write him directly


Write him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and include your phone #. He will give you great support.

Don't you DARE waver in your resolve, nique. You are exactly correct in your position.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I want to reiterate that it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. Keep that in mind. YOU and your children are the one who suffer from any contact with the OC and the OW, not all these other ppl who are so free with their little opinions.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: nique84
Didn't realize I could write him directly


Write him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and include your phone #. He will give you great support.

Don't you DARE waver in your resolve, nique. You are exactly correct in your position.


Nique, please get in touch with Dr. Harley directly. You need the encouragement of hearing from the best expert in this field. And you'll find that Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce are incredibly supportive and helpful. The rest of us have. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
How do you even begin to embrace a child and be genuine when he was created under these circumstances?

You can't.
Trying to do so will destroy your marriage.


It is not my job to embrace and care for every woman. Just the one I promised to love.

It is not my job to embrace and care for every child, either.

This is my number one duty before God. Any care that I provide for others has to come AFTER the care I provide for my wife and children. And it can't come at the expense of my wife and children. I can't care for other people if it is going to hurt my wife or hurt my children. So those people will have to be in God's hands and He will have to take care of them some other way.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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My sister and nephews both BENEFITED from a no contact policy with their biological fathers. There is ample proof that it's is best for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. K.


I know a couple who recovered from an OC situation by choosing no contact, but some friends were just aghast that he was 'abandoning' his kid. One friend launches into a story about how her dad abandoned her for a new partner.

I said "You're forgetting that he's never been this kids dad any more than if he'd donated sperm against his wife's will. Let's not pretend that this is a relationship that should be honoured."

My friend actually said "So isn't my mum and dads relationship to be honoured either?" And I said "Its a bit different when this kid would have OLDER half siblings born to his dad's current wife. Would you want to be such an obvious product of an affair? Every time he came round you would be getting reminded. Your mum would be insulted in your mind as the mistress every time."

She looked blank because she hadn't added that up. Wasn't her ox getting gored, after all. But my BW friend had. Just like you, she didn't want her kids faces rubbed in an affair. And that goes for the OC too. Who wants affair-dad when you can have either a genuine step dad or at least a mother who is merely single instead of someone's mistress. Not that any of this is your problem - it's hers to find her kids a dad.


Last edited by indiegirl; 07/10/15 03:02 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I want to reiterate that it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. Keep that in mind. YOU and your children are the one who suffer from any contact with the OC and the OW, not all these other ppl who are so free with their little opinions.


X1000000

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People mistakenly try to treat OCs as step- children. But they aren't. They were not born to a loving married couple who later separated.

Contact would deprive him of the chance for a full time father.

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nique84 Offline OP
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They do and I unfortunately will never see OC as my step anything. OW thinks differently, let her tell it I signed up for this. I have three girls and that is all. My H reassures me that he would never mention, ask and doesn't even think of OC as my step anything.

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Nique, I think you and your husband have the good sense naturally gifted to anyone with a knife at their belly that they should walk in the OTHER direction.

It is only the persistently callous and thoughtless opinions of others making you feel trapped. However you have excluded them from your marriage - and when they have been excluded for a while you will feel better.

Talking to the Harleys will also be massively reassuring to you. They are objective and informed advisors who just have a way of making things really clear and fuss-free.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hello Nique,

I recall reading your story on another board & Im glad youve found your way here. They supported you with good advice about NC & trying to assuage your guilt about it. But HERE is where youll receive your BEST information & advice about healing your marriage, a plan to move forward & dealing with an OW/OC situation.

Reading about your situation, I believe your misplaced guilt is coming from the fact that the OW (claims she) didnt know your H was already in a committed relationship. Fine. Great. She didnt know. That doesnt negate the fact that HE WAS, and she knows NOW. What a remorseful & repentant OW would have done was taken her child & moved on. Not, run to court trying to make herself relevant. She also would not have taken the position of, since you stayed, after finding out about me & my child, you are now obligated to consider us as his family too, so move over. Not. This can also be flipped on her as well, you know. Since you & your kids existed first (whether she knew or not is pointless), and since she decided to keep her child & chose to try & keep a connection with your H, she chose to put her child in the situation of being NC with its bio-father, since he already had a 'situation'. So, she can fall back in line, RESPECT the fact that he has chosen NC & to stay with his family, collect her extortion money, move on with NC & shut her mouth.

It truly gets under my skin when people, who have no clue of this situation, use statements like, since you stayed, you chose this. Its just their way of trying to gain position & keep it, by causing you to have guilt to control you. Dont fall for this from OW, family & friends. Flip it & shut them down. Just because OW gave birth to your Hs kid doesnt automatically divorce you, dissolve your relationship or place you & your children in a more inferior position. That line of thinking comes from their own misplaced entitlement & from the fact that our society does not respect the institution of marriage anymore. We have to MAKE them respect it by standing as a united front (spouses), while making it clear to EVERYONE that this is the life you had before OW/OC, YOU & YOUR H chose to stay together and continue it and if no one can respect that you all come first & YOU all will decide what you accept in your lives & the lives of your children, so they can just shut up & mind their own business. The guilt trip-tactic will not work.



Originally Posted By: nique84
Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?



Our children were only 10 & 6 (close to the ages of your kids now I think?). I experienced all the same questions you did. All before finding MB & having confirmation that my line of thinking was not wrong. I didnt want to tell my kids about OC because I know kids can romanticize the idea of a new child because they dont, yet, have the ability to see all the conflict that can come along with having contact under these circumstances. I knew, choosing NC, that they were just too young. I also struggled with WHEN to tell them. I do agree that they should be told. Especially boys. The last thing I wanted was to create a situation where my son could end up dating his own half-sister (yuck). But we ended up telling him (darkest.day.ever.in this household) when he was about 14 (3 yrs. ago). And not because I was ready to tell him. My H ended up getting caught cheating again, & it was done during exposure. My daughter, unfortunately, found out by accident just after my H informed me @ d-day. To make a long story short; because of the upheaval of d-day she knew something was wrong. So, she waited for the right opportunity & ended up finding the letter I had written to my MIL (at MILs house) about respecting our decision to go NC. And I can see where my DD did romanticize the *idea* of a little sister, yet she would NEVER have had the patience for her, and being so close to her father, would have never accepted him sharing his time with OC & would have resented contact terribly. Shes now 21 and has confirmed this. With you all having girls, I agree along the lines with what Apples said. Incorporate it with teaching about right & wrong, & the marital relationship when they get older. If something happens where they find out earlier than you wanted, they will understand when you tell them that it really served no purpose to tell them sooner.

ButI have a couple of questions. I read that you found out through a drive-thru window from OWs sister (who worked at the fast food place)? Well, if OW didnt know about YOU, how did her sister?

Are you & H still living apart while transitioning into your new home? How long will this last & what precautions are you taking to ensure he is NC with OW during this time?

And I also agree, email the Harley's. Your direction will be so much clearer.

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She needs to contact Dr Harley and inquire about when to tell her own children. I think he has told another woman on the radio to not tell them until they are grown. Even so, that is the LEAST of her worries now.

Nique, getting this toxic woman out of your lives is Item #1, but equally important is saving your marriage so you don't face this again. If you don't fix the marriage that led to this situation, you will be facing more affairs in the future and then your marriage will really be over. Your marriage has taken a much greater hit than most, so it is imperative that you follow this program diligently to recover your marriage. It comes in 2 parts: affair proof the marriage, and secondly to create a romantic marriage. Unless you can do that, you will end up with a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage that will be more vulnerable to an affair than before.

Get the book, Surviving an Affair and the workbook Five Steps to Romantic Love. Follow the program in it. If you and your husband are not disciplined enough to do that, then you should sign up for the MB course, which is around $1000. They will assign you a professional coach who will guide you through the program over a year.

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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nique84 Offline OP
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Hey, it's like you are in my mind and heart....everything you wrote is my life(at least it feels that way). MB has been excellent and had helped me tremendously.

My H family member informed OW, according to OW. OW told me she felt things were off with my H but he told her he was single. I guess I was the topic of much discussion once she found out about H lies and that I was having his second child. I try not to be angry with OW because I figure if she didn't know, how could she make educated decisions? I was actually very hurt for her, but after that exchange we had, I have been very angry at her. I was nothing but respectful and she contacts me with drama. In her mind, her son will be apart of our family. I guess she never really thought about what single parenting looked like.

We are still apart but that ends Aug. 3rd, can't come soon enough. We do face time several times during the day. I have access to accounts, phone records, work schedule. We are together on weekends. He has to be accountable for his time. All income is deposited into my account, so that I know where it is spent. Do you have any additional suggestions?

Thanks for your words of encouragement!!

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Get in the same house asap. So many of our problems were solved by being under the same roof every night.

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Additional suggestion is for him to MOVE HOME TODAY. Being apart is harmful to your marriage and you can't afford any more harm.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It's not the hardest thing in the world to check a guy's ability to be a father before deciding to have his child. Sounds like she didn't even know where he lived!

Even a woman in a very committed marriage cannot automatically count on the man being there forever. Stuff happens. You have to be prepared for that. But at least she's done what she can to ensure a reliable co-parent.

If I buy a car without doing checks on it, I cannot complain when all is not as it seemed. I will likely end up with no car. Her problem, not YOURS.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Heard your show today. Great advice from Dr. Harley. Has your H listened to it?

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nique, I heard your call today and thought it went great! Some questions I had was:

1. did he tell you to tell the kids about the OC? He said to sit them down and tell them about "it." Of course, he would recommend you tell them about the affair, but what about the OC? Did he clarify?

2. did he talk to you about your H living away from home?

Your next steps will be critical in the recovery of your marriage and we can help you with next steps. Will your husband come here and post to us?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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