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Hello, I am new here and have found myself in an OC situation. My then BF of seven years, but now H got another pregnant three months after we conceived our last daughter. Out daughter was born this past September , OC was born December. I know that a child is innocent and that at the time of conception of this OC we were not married but we were living together and raising a family. I love him very much and decided to stay so that we could work on our relationship. Prior to marriage I was open and honest and told him how very hurt I was abt OC/OW. I also made him aware that I could not support him in co parenting. I felt we just needed time to work on us and asked that he not push OC on me. I have decided that if he wants to participate in OC life that is his decision, but I cannot. H stated that he wants to focus on us as well and that in the future if we decide that we want OC to be apart of our family, we will decide together. I know ppl may think I am just awful, maybe even foolish to marry this man , but I am just concerned and focused on raising our kids. I don't believe in divorce nor do I want one, but OW and H's high school friend/x friend have been difficult and judgemental even trying to push OC on me lately. I know she is hurt but I can't help the way I feel. Any advice?

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Originally Posted By: nique84
I know ppl may think I am just awful, maybe even foolish to marry this man , but I am just concerned and focused on raising our kids. I don't believe in divorce nor do I want one, but OW and H's high school friend/x friend have been difficult and judgemental even trying to push OC on me lately. I know she is hurt but I can't help the way I feel. Any advice?


You and your husband are RIGHT to keep the OW and the OC out of your lives. She is a threat to your marriage and the OC will only remind you of the worst thing that ever happened to you. It won't help the OC in any way to have your husband hanging around because it will be harder for the OW to find a husband to help father him.

So tell your "friends" to buzz off. Its real easy for them to be judgmental when its not their ox getting gored, isn't it? They won't be harmed by such a decision, you WILL, so just ignore them!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Melodylane.....thanks
Prior to this situation I said plenty of things about how I would handle such an unfortunate thing.....walk away. I stayed and now I just want to navigate this successfully with my H. He spoke with her at court and now all hell has broken lose. He wasn't supposed to be in contact with her at all prior to this court date but according to her he doesn't even want to be married and is continuing to make me look foolish. I don't understand how this became an issue of our marriage vs.her concern for OC. She said she didn't want to come between our marriage and cause problems but she is. Her mouthpiece sent my H a long message abt how horrible he is and how his son (OC) is the most important factor. I can't live like this.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Melodylane.....thanks
Prior to this situation I said plenty of things about how I would handle such an unfortunate thing.....walk away. I stayed and now I just want to navigate this successfully with my H. He spoke with her at court and now all hell has broken lose. He wasn't supposed to be in contact with her at all prior to this court date but according to her he doesn't even want to be married and is continuing to make me look foolish. I don't understand how this became an issue of our marriage vs.her concern for OC. She said she didn't want to come between our marriage and cause problems but she is. Her mouthpiece sent my H a long message abt how horrible he is and how his son (OC) is the most important factor. I can't live like this.

The one and only reason that OWs fight to keep the married man in contact with OC is to try and break up his marriage.

She wants your husband. She knows how weak he is for her and she is determined to wear down his defences until he caves in and leaves you for her. This is her strategy, and she has no shame about it.

You need to insist that your H observes NC with her and the child, and if he won't, you need to walk away.


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You also need to go NC with this'friend'.

Can you change your numbers etc so that they can no longer harass you? It is imperative to do this with the OW.

Dr H tells married men to stay out of the lives of their OC until they are adults because of the high chances they will end up cheating on their wives and turning the child's life upside down. Affairs are highly addictive so it WILL restart. Your children are the priory. (Besides he will have little time for any child with two women).

He says the best chance is for the child is for the OW to find a proper husband and she has little chance of that with a married lover hanging around. It is a constant reminder to all that she is no good.

What is the legal situation? Is he able to leave the mother and child to their own devices?

If you are close to this OW and her high school clique, I would consider moving.




Last edited by indiegirl; 06/06/15 02:41 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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We have gone no contact but once we sent the notice to OW the "friend" contacted me. The "friend " is in a similar OC situation. Our numbers have been changed and we also relocated about 2 1/2 hours away......not far enough. H had DNA testing done for confirmation and is paying CS, as he should. The crazy thing is the "friend" didn't even know the OW until abt five months ago, but was a friend of my H for years and both of our classmate. She had the nerve to say OW was depressed and that God does not like OC being abandoned. All children should be treated equally and OC should come first along with our children. H and I marriage should not come first, H needs to bond with OC. How would that work, we have an infant he needs to bond with also. I was thinking after some time passed and our marriage was solid and the pain wasn't so fresh OC would not be as difficult of a situation. I was wrong to think that, as things have gotten pretty ugly.

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Originally Posted By: nique84

We have gone no contact but once we sent the notice to OW the "friend" contacted me. The "friend " is in a similar OC situation. Our numbers have been changed and we also relocated about 2 1/2 hours away......not far enough. H had DNA testing done for confirmation and is paying CS, as he should. The crazy thing is the "friend" didn't even know the OW until abt five months ago, but was a friend of my H for years and both of our classmate. She had the nerve to say OW was depressed and that God does not like OC being abandoned. All children should be treated equally and OC should come first along with our children. H and I marriage should not come first, H needs to bond with OC. How would that work, we have an infant he needs to bond with also. I was thinking after some time passed and our marriage was solid and the pain wasn't so fresh OC would not be as difficult of a situation. I was wrong to think that, as things have gotten pretty ugly.

What are this friend's professional qualifications?

What makes her think she has the right to tell you how to live your lives and protect your marriage and children? More to the point, why did you listen to this tirade?

I think you can see where contact with OC will get you; to somewhere ugly, as you say.


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Originally Posted By: nique84

We have gone no contact but once we sent the notice to OW the "friend" contacted me. The "friend " is in a similar OC situation. Our numbers have been changed and we also relocated about 2 1/2 hours away......not far enough. H had DNA testing done for confirmation and is paying CS, as he should. The crazy thing is the "friend" didn't even know the OW until abt five months ago, but was a friend of my H for years and both of our classmate. She had the nerve to say OW was depressed and that God does not like OC being abandoned. All children should be treated equally and OC should come first along with our children. H and I marriage should not come first, H needs to bond with OC. How would that work, we have an infant he needs to bond with also. I was thinking after some time passed and our marriage was solid and the pain wasn't so fresh OC would not be as difficult of a situation. I was wrong to think that, as things have gotten pretty ugly.


Tell your friend to go to hell. It is great to have stupid advice when she does not have to suffer the consequences. YOU and your children do. I would unfriend her.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Sounds like a not-friend.

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It was sent in the form of a text so I actually didn't hear the "friend ", and no she isn't a friend. I just really want encouragement regarding this all.....so many factors to consider. I know in my heart at the end of the day my intentions are not to hurt anyone, but I must really look out for kids and my own interest.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
It was sent in the form of a text so I actually didn't hear the "friend ", and no she isn't a friend. I just really want encouragement regarding this all.....so many factors to consider. I know in my heart at the end of the day my intentions are not to hurt anyone, but I must really look out for kids and my own interest.


You are exactly right, nique. Your kids have to come first. If your husband stayed in contact with the OC, it would greatly threaten your marriage, which is your children's only security. That would be a needless and foolish risk. Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders fully agrees with your position.

He discusses it in these radio clips:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3684
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3685
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3686


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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This is not a woman who should be friends with you, much less your husband.

She's dealt a death blow to somebody's marriage and is now on a mission to keep married men in contact with their mistresses and mistresses' children? If she felt so strongly about children's fathers she should have got one for her own.

A man can't father two families - it's physically impossible. She's raging at the wind for being blowy. Nobody made her get herself into that situation.


Why would you move away from this crank and not change your contact details?

Please tell me OW can't contact you too?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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You know, there was an OC on here a while back (she became a BW) who described her father's visits as dirty secrets. She was not supposed to ask about why he didn't stick around for long.

They would have to have pretended it was OK for a married man to go on seeing his mistress - or stopped. He barely paid attention to her anyway.

Her mother also never became remorseful or repentant, never remarried, never prepared for her old age and told her daughter she expected HER to care for her in spite of the fact this would put great strain on her daughter's marriage.

It's quite disgusting that on top of not securing a real husband and father for their child, they refuse to take sole responsibility for raising their own child (as so many BWs have to).

If a BW can decide she is no longer allowing adultery near her children and choose to go it alone - why can't an OW?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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You are doing the right thing. Don't let a fool make you doubt what is right.

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Originally Posted By: apples123
You are doing the right thing. Don't let a fool make you doubt what is right.


*like*


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?

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How old is your child?

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My sister, while not an OC, has a different biological father. Her bio father was not reliable. My parents courted and married while my mother was pregnant (all known to my father). Dad's name is the one on my sister's birth certificate. He raised her from birth til he gave her away at her wedding.

Her biological father had 4 children by 3 different women. My sister is far more stable than her other half siblings who mothers maintained contact. My sister now has some contact as an adult that is friendly and light, more like he is a good friend's father.

My nephews are in a similar situation. My SIL's first husband signed over custody and her second husband adopted them when they were 1 and 2 years old. They are in high school now. THey never had to deal with shared visitation, different house rules, etc. They are doing very well.

So YES, NC is the right choice.

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It is the right choice for the OC because it gives the OC the best chance of having a full time father with a nuclear family.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?


I suspect my parents first told us about my sister's biological father when we were 3 or 4 years old because I cannot recall ever NOT knowing. I'm guessing when they were teaching us about purity and that no one but a spouse has the right to touch one's body. They weren't afraid to use them selves as object lessons; it probably came up as one of the consequences of sin. And also how God can work out bad situations for the good.

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We have a 9 year old, my bio daughter, 5 year old and 10 month old. OC and our 10 month old are three months apart

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Your guilt is misplaced. You are the one standing for what is best for all of these children.

If you are a woman of faith, I would encourage you to cast your burdens on the Lord. Mediate on the good things in life.

If you are not a woman of faith, mediation on all of the good things in your life will help.

Going on to anti-depressants for a while may help as well.

Are the two of you working the MB plan? Extraordinary precautions, 15 hours of Undivided attention, No Lovebusters, etc.?

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We are currently reading the material and implementing parts. I certainly need to cast all my worries on the Lord and leave them there...I am trying my best to cope but I will be honest it has been extremely difficult. Thanks for the input.

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Which parts?

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Have you thought about doing the online program?

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Have you removed from your life the foolish people demanding you have contact with the OC?

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Joint agreement, loves busters, identified and address emotional needs....I thought we were doing the online plan....it's a lot of material and can be overwhelming at times. No one is actually talking about OC and forcing him on us. My FIL did say he plans to participate in his life and that's his choice. I am just not ready for my kids to know. I will have to deal with the constant questions and talk about this OC from my own kids. I don't want my girls to think this is the way things go and that it's acceptable, but I stayed. ...so confusing and heartbreaking.
I am just always so concerned about fixing everything for everyone even though I didn't cause this mess

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There is an actual course you can order.

What about extraordinary precautions?

My mom didn't have to deal with constant questions. And we never thoughts it was the way things were supposed to happen. She used it to teach us right from wrong and consequences.

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How does FIL plan to be involved?

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If the kids know, you won't have to dread it anymore. And you are currently dealing with the fallout from your H's dishonesty. You don't want to inflict this pain on the kids too.

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Your friend was nagging you about oc wasn't she? She's history right?


Does your FiL realise this makes him an enemy of your marriage and persona non grata? What on earth kind of relationship could he have with the child? Hi I'm the father of the married man who insulted your mother by making her a booty call? That is not a realistic plan, just a snide comment about what you should do - and a shady reflection on his own morals. Even if you try to maintain a relationship with your FiL, you won't be able to. The resentment over this insult will kill all respect.

You should expose the affair to your girls, but in a way so they know it's not acceptable.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Yes she is....FIL says he didn't do anything to anyone and OC is his grand as well. MIL isn't currently involved, I believe she is still hurt by all of this and ashamed. FIL stated that a male needs his father. I told my H that I won't be involved with his family like we were in the past. It hurts cause H actions have caused this but his family are free to do as they choose.

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The precautions are in place. Well FIL told me after last court date he met OW/OC and spoke with her and her mom. FIL told me he bought some things for the baby and gave OW their contact number. FIL stated you he feed OC and told OW to call if baby needed anything. He told me that when OC turns one he will get him as it will be nice to have a boy around.
So, are you saying that we should info our kids now? What happens when they want to see their brother, we would be breaking NC.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?


nique, feelings are very misleading. You should put aside your feelings and follow your logic. You logically know that the best thing is to protect your children and your marriage. Follow your logic, not your feelings.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: nique84
Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?


p.s. you can tell your children when they are grown up. The last thing you need at this time, is curious children asking about their sibling. Since this child will not be a part of their lives, you don't need to say anything. Don't complicate the situation.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: nique84
The precautions are in place. Well FIL told me after last court date he met OW/OC and spoke with her and her mom. FIL told me he bought some things for the baby and gave OW their contact number. FIL stated you he feed OC and told OW to call if baby needed anything. He told me that when OC turns one he will get him as it will be nice to have a boy around.
So, are you saying that we should info our kids now? What happens when they want to see their brother, we would be breaking NC.


Don't tell your kids about the OC. Of course they will want to see him and then you will have new difficulties. I would also plan to shut out your FIL and MIL if they include this child in their lives. They have to know that this is your worst nightmare and the success of your marriage is contingent upon keeping the OC and the OW out of your lives.

Keeping her around is like inviting your rapist to dinner. Your inlaws need to understand that if they choose to be an enemy to your marriage and your children, they won't be included in their lives anymore.

But this is something your H needs to address with them directly. I would also write Dr. Harley about this situation because he can help you and your husband navigate this difficult situation.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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H and I met with our pastor who years prior to becoming a pastor had two kids outside of his relationship. He told H that he must understand that it may take a very long time before I/we heal from this. H is not allowed to push OC on me but OC is now a part of my life. Pastor does not believe in NC but understands that we must do what is best for our marriage. How do you even begin to embrace a child and be genuine when he was created under these circumstances? It's not fair that he be treated this way, but it's not fair that I have to walk away from my relationship which will cause my kids to have a part time father.....

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Originally Posted By: nique84
H and I met with our pastor who years prior to becoming a pastor had two kids outside of his relationship. He told H that he must understand that it may take a very long time before I/we heal from this. H is not allowed to push OC on me but OC is now a part of my life. Pastor does not believe in NC but understands that we must do what is best for our marriage. How do you even begin to embrace a child and be genuine when he was created under these circumstances? It's not fair that he be treated this way, but it's not fair that I have to walk away from my relationship which will cause my kids to have a part time father.....


nique, I am sure your pastor is a nice guy who means well, but he has no idea how to save a marriage. Please stop shopping for advice from everyone and take the advice of Dr. Bill Harley, who is a Christian man and a clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages.

The OC is not part of your marriage. You will have no marriage if you make him a part of it. How will that be "fair" to your children? You have to protect your marriage for your sake and the sake of the children of your marriage.

It is not "fair" to the OC to have your husband hanging around like a barnacle to discourage other men from marrying the OW and fathering this child. NO ONE benefits from such a relationship.

Stop asking everyone for their opinion and stick to what you know is right.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Didn't realize I could write him directly

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Quote:
How do you even begin to embrace a child and be genuine when he was created under these circumstances?

You can't.
Trying to do so will destroy your marriage.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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You are right Melodylane and I will do just that. ....thanks smile

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Originally Posted By: nique84
He told H that he must understand that it may take a very long time before I/we heal from this. H is not allowed to push OC on me but OC is now a part of my life...


So his advice is to UNDO all your healing in the future by bringing in the OC? His advice is to destroy your marriage in the future? How is that beneficial? If you want to heal, you must not have the OC or the OW in your lives in any way. That is true today and it will be true in 15 years. To think otherwise is to have absolutely no understanding of the dynamics of an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Didn't realize I could write him directly


Write him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and include your phone #. He will give you great support.

Don't you DARE waver in your resolve, nique. You are exactly correct in your position.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I want to reiterate that it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. Keep that in mind. YOU and your children are the one who suffer from any contact with the OC and the OW, not all these other ppl who are so free with their little opinions.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: nique84
Didn't realize I could write him directly


Write him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and include your phone #. He will give you great support.

Don't you DARE waver in your resolve, nique. You are exactly correct in your position.


Nique, please get in touch with Dr. Harley directly. You need the encouragement of hearing from the best expert in this field. And you'll find that Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce are incredibly supportive and helpful. The rest of us have. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
How do you even begin to embrace a child and be genuine when he was created under these circumstances?

You can't.
Trying to do so will destroy your marriage.


It is not my job to embrace and care for every woman. Just the one I promised to love.

It is not my job to embrace and care for every child, either.

This is my number one duty before God. Any care that I provide for others has to come AFTER the care I provide for my wife and children. And it can't come at the expense of my wife and children. I can't care for other people if it is going to hurt my wife or hurt my children. So those people will have to be in God's hands and He will have to take care of them some other way.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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My sister and nephews both BENEFITED from a no contact policy with their biological fathers. There is ample proof that it's is best for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. K.


I know a couple who recovered from an OC situation by choosing no contact, but some friends were just aghast that he was 'abandoning' his kid. One friend launches into a story about how her dad abandoned her for a new partner.

I said "You're forgetting that he's never been this kids dad any more than if he'd donated sperm against his wife's will. Let's not pretend that this is a relationship that should be honoured."

My friend actually said "So isn't my mum and dads relationship to be honoured either?" And I said "Its a bit different when this kid would have OLDER half siblings born to his dad's current wife. Would you want to be such an obvious product of an affair? Every time he came round you would be getting reminded. Your mum would be insulted in your mind as the mistress every time."

She looked blank because she hadn't added that up. Wasn't her ox getting gored, after all. But my BW friend had. Just like you, she didn't want her kids faces rubbed in an affair. And that goes for the OC too. Who wants affair-dad when you can have either a genuine step dad or at least a mother who is merely single instead of someone's mistress. Not that any of this is your problem - it's hers to find her kids a dad.


Last edited by indiegirl; 07/10/15 03:02 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I want to reiterate that it is real easy to proffer little "opinions" about this OC when it is not their ox getting gored. Keep that in mind. YOU and your children are the one who suffer from any contact with the OC and the OW, not all these other ppl who are so free with their little opinions.


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People mistakenly try to treat OCs as step- children. But they aren't. They were not born to a loving married couple who later separated.

Contact would deprive him of the chance for a full time father.

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They do and I unfortunately will never see OC as my step anything. OW thinks differently, let her tell it I signed up for this. I have three girls and that is all. My H reassures me that he would never mention, ask and doesn't even think of OC as my step anything.

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Nique, I think you and your husband have the good sense naturally gifted to anyone with a knife at their belly that they should walk in the OTHER direction.

It is only the persistently callous and thoughtless opinions of others making you feel trapped. However you have excluded them from your marriage - and when they have been excluded for a while you will feel better.

Talking to the Harleys will also be massively reassuring to you. They are objective and informed advisors who just have a way of making things really clear and fuss-free.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hello Nique,

I recall reading your story on another board & Im glad youve found your way here. They supported you with good advice about NC & trying to assuage your guilt about it. But HERE is where youll receive your BEST information & advice about healing your marriage, a plan to move forward & dealing with an OW/OC situation.

Reading about your situation, I believe your misplaced guilt is coming from the fact that the OW (claims she) didnt know your H was already in a committed relationship. Fine. Great. She didnt know. That doesnt negate the fact that HE WAS, and she knows NOW. What a remorseful & repentant OW would have done was taken her child & moved on. Not, run to court trying to make herself relevant. She also would not have taken the position of, since you stayed, after finding out about me & my child, you are now obligated to consider us as his family too, so move over. Not. This can also be flipped on her as well, you know. Since you & your kids existed first (whether she knew or not is pointless), and since she decided to keep her child & chose to try & keep a connection with your H, she chose to put her child in the situation of being NC with its bio-father, since he already had a 'situation'. So, she can fall back in line, RESPECT the fact that he has chosen NC & to stay with his family, collect her extortion money, move on with NC & shut her mouth.

It truly gets under my skin when people, who have no clue of this situation, use statements like, since you stayed, you chose this. Its just their way of trying to gain position & keep it, by causing you to have guilt to control you. Dont fall for this from OW, family & friends. Flip it & shut them down. Just because OW gave birth to your Hs kid doesnt automatically divorce you, dissolve your relationship or place you & your children in a more inferior position. That line of thinking comes from their own misplaced entitlement & from the fact that our society does not respect the institution of marriage anymore. We have to MAKE them respect it by standing as a united front (spouses), while making it clear to EVERYONE that this is the life you had before OW/OC, YOU & YOUR H chose to stay together and continue it and if no one can respect that you all come first & YOU all will decide what you accept in your lives & the lives of your children, so they can just shut up & mind their own business. The guilt trip-tactic will not work.



Originally Posted By: nique84
Morning, when is it appropriate to inform children of OC, and why do I experience guilt from the NC agreement? We both still agree with NC, but why is it that I feel this way?



Our children were only 10 & 6 (close to the ages of your kids now I think?). I experienced all the same questions you did. All before finding MB & having confirmation that my line of thinking was not wrong. I didnt want to tell my kids about OC because I know kids can romanticize the idea of a new child because they dont, yet, have the ability to see all the conflict that can come along with having contact under these circumstances. I knew, choosing NC, that they were just too young. I also struggled with WHEN to tell them. I do agree that they should be told. Especially boys. The last thing I wanted was to create a situation where my son could end up dating his own half-sister (yuck). But we ended up telling him (darkest.day.ever.in this household) when he was about 14 (3 yrs. ago). And not because I was ready to tell him. My H ended up getting caught cheating again, & it was done during exposure. My daughter, unfortunately, found out by accident just after my H informed me @ d-day. To make a long story short; because of the upheaval of d-day she knew something was wrong. So, she waited for the right opportunity & ended up finding the letter I had written to my MIL (at MILs house) about respecting our decision to go NC. And I can see where my DD did romanticize the *idea* of a little sister, yet she would NEVER have had the patience for her, and being so close to her father, would have never accepted him sharing his time with OC & would have resented contact terribly. Shes now 21 and has confirmed this. With you all having girls, I agree along the lines with what Apples said. Incorporate it with teaching about right & wrong, & the marital relationship when they get older. If something happens where they find out earlier than you wanted, they will understand when you tell them that it really served no purpose to tell them sooner.

ButI have a couple of questions. I read that you found out through a drive-thru window from OWs sister (who worked at the fast food place)? Well, if OW didnt know about YOU, how did her sister?

Are you & H still living apart while transitioning into your new home? How long will this last & what precautions are you taking to ensure he is NC with OW during this time?

And I also agree, email the Harley's. Your direction will be so much clearer.

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She needs to contact Dr Harley and inquire about when to tell her own children. I think he has told another woman on the radio to not tell them until they are grown. Even so, that is the LEAST of her worries now.

Nique, getting this toxic woman out of your lives is Item #1, but equally important is saving your marriage so you don't face this again. If you don't fix the marriage that led to this situation, you will be facing more affairs in the future and then your marriage will really be over. Your marriage has taken a much greater hit than most, so it is imperative that you follow this program diligently to recover your marriage. It comes in 2 parts: affair proof the marriage, and secondly to create a romantic marriage. Unless you can do that, you will end up with a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage that will be more vulnerable to an affair than before.

Get the book, Surviving an Affair and the workbook Five Steps to Romantic Love. Follow the program in it. If you and your husband are not disciplined enough to do that, then you should sign up for the MB course, which is around $1000. They will assign you a professional coach who will guide you through the program over a year.

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Hey, it's like you are in my mind and heart....everything you wrote is my life(at least it feels that way). MB has been excellent and had helped me tremendously.

My H family member informed OW, according to OW. OW told me she felt things were off with my H but he told her he was single. I guess I was the topic of much discussion once she found out about H lies and that I was having his second child. I try not to be angry with OW because I figure if she didn't know, how could she make educated decisions? I was actually very hurt for her, but after that exchange we had, I have been very angry at her. I was nothing but respectful and she contacts me with drama. In her mind, her son will be apart of our family. I guess she never really thought about what single parenting looked like.

We are still apart but that ends Aug. 3rd, can't come soon enough. We do face time several times during the day. I have access to accounts, phone records, work schedule. We are together on weekends. He has to be accountable for his time. All income is deposited into my account, so that I know where it is spent. Do you have any additional suggestions?

Thanks for your words of encouragement!!

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Get in the same house asap. So many of our problems were solved by being under the same roof every night.

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Additional suggestion is for him to MOVE HOME TODAY. Being apart is harmful to your marriage and you can't afford any more harm.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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It's not the hardest thing in the world to check a guy's ability to be a father before deciding to have his child. Sounds like she didn't even know where he lived!

Even a woman in a very committed marriage cannot automatically count on the man being there forever. Stuff happens. You have to be prepared for that. But at least she's done what she can to ensure a reliable co-parent.

If I buy a car without doing checks on it, I cannot complain when all is not as it seemed. I will likely end up with no car. Her problem, not YOURS.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Heard your show today. Great advice from Dr. Harley. Has your H listened to it?

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nique, I heard your call today and thought it went great! Some questions I had was:

1. did he tell you to tell the kids about the OC? He said to sit them down and tell them about "it." Of course, he would recommend you tell them about the affair, but what about the OC? Did he clarify?

2. did he talk to you about your H living away from home?

Your next steps will be critical in the recovery of your marriage and we can help you with next steps. Will your husband come here and post to us?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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My H has listened and Dr. Harley did recommend that we tell our kids. I am not looking forward to that but my H would like to talk with Dr . Harley about talking to our kids. We didn't discuss my H and I not living together at the moment. Dr. Harley and I talked for a bit prior to being on air and he made some awesome recommendations. I will ask my H if he willing to post, as I think he could benefit from the forum.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
My H has listened and Dr. Harley did recommend that we tell our kids. I am not looking forward to that but my H would like to talk with Dr . Harley about talking to our kids.


I would clarify what he wants you to tell the kids. Does he want you to tell him about the OC?

Quote:
We didn't discuss my H and I not living together at the moment.


Did you tell Dr Harley that you are living apart? WHY are you living apart since it is so bad for your marriage?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Okay, we will ask for clarification. Us living apart is coming to an end, it was just temporary but the only option without being homeless and unemployed.

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Your husband could also write Dr. Harley about talking to the kids.

How did your H respond to Dr. Harley's recommendation that your eliminate contact
with your FIL?

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My H said that he would speak with his father regarding what we are doing and that he does not approve of contact. Once my H speaks with him we will see what my in-laws decide and go from there. I will have my H write Dr. Harley regarding our girls.

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That's encouraging.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
My H said that he would speak with his father regarding what we are doing and that he does not approve of contact. Once my H speaks with him we will see what my in-laws decide and go from there. I will have my H write Dr. Harley regarding our girls.

Let us know what when you hear back.


FWW/BW (me)
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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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We finally got our question answered about how we should approach telling our girls. You all this makes me so sad. I just don't know how I got here. I want to make sure I educate my girls and prayfully they avoid my mistakes. Sometimes this feels like this can't be my life. Sometimes I think if my husband wanted to be in his sons life that would be great.....I could leave him and cut this pain out of my life (just thinking out loud). Thank you all for your tremendous support, you are the only ones in my corner. *I am trying unsuccessfully to cast my burdens on the Lord and focus on the good.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
We finally got our question answered about how we should approach telling our girls. You all this makes me so sad. I just don't know how I got here. I want to make sure I educate my girls and prayfully they avoid my mistakes. Sometimes this feels like this can't be my life. Sometimes I think if my husband wanted to be in his sons life that would be great.....I could leave him and cut this pain out of my life (just thinking out loud). Thank you all for your tremendous support, you are the only ones in my corner. *I am trying unsuccessfully to cast my burdens on the Lord and focus on the good.

You got it answered how?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Dr. Harley discussed the question my H submitted on yesterday's show.

Guess I should have indicated what his suggestion was....
Dr. Harley does not recommend that we inform the kids at this point, as they will want to be in contact with their brother. At some point when they are older we must tell them. I am certain someone will tell them before we do. My daughter is always asking for a brother. Having my kid ask me for something she already has that must be kept secret is driving me crazy. Talk about a trigger

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
She needs to contact Dr Harley and inquire about when to tell her own children.

***EDIT***

Originally Posted By: 4eva
...when they get older.


Originally Posted By: 4eva

And I also agree, email the Harley's. Your direction will be so much clearer.



Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I think he has told another woman on the radio to not tell them until they are grown.


Dr. Harley told us to tell our children (probably because they were old enough, at that time, to understand better than younger children; they were 14 & 18 at the time & we were NC). So I'm well aware that his advice will be different or unique to each situation. Exactly why I suggested Nique email the Harley's.

Originally Posted By: nique84
Dr. Harley does not recommend that we inform the kids at this point, as they will want to be in contact with their brother.


I didn't WANT to tell my son (or D) EVER, because I KNOW kids can romanticize about the "idea" of other kids, & don't understand about the consequences that come from contact. All they know is, ...'somebody to play with...', until they are exposed & the fall-out is in play. But I knew it was going to be something I HAD to tell him/them at SOME point in their lives, for their own good (OC or someone disclosing the info. to them instead of us) & the good of our relationships (risking the lack-of-trust factor). We told our son, when we did, because Dr. H agreed they should be told THEN, during exposure, rather than later.

I am not asking to create any contention. Just want to know what I'm missing.

Last edited by Toujours; 09/02/15 02:56 PM. Reason: TOS: personal attack; distracting

4eva

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D-19
S-15
OC-14/born 9/99
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Dday #1 10/30/04
Dday #2 7/2/12 Skank ho #2 (40ish, childless, single & desperate; the world is becoming over-run with them...just like cheaters)
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Originally Posted By: nique84
Dr. Harley discussed the question my H submitted on yesterday's show.

Guess I should have indicated what his suggestion was....
Dr. Harley does not recommend that we inform the kids at this point, as they will want to be in contact with their brother. At some point when they are older we must tell them. I am certain someone will tell them before we do. My daughter is always asking for a brother. Having my kid ask me for something she already has that must be kept secret is driving me crazy. Talk about a trigger


Thanks nique, I figured that is what he would say since he has told others this.

How is it going? Did your husband move home? How are you feeling?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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We are making progress and we have all been in the same house since the beginning of August. I know that I can be a little impatient, so I'm working on that. At times I get overwhelmed, but I will continue to pray and focus on the present. I hate feeling like the victim. I actually had to quit my new job earlier this year because I was such an emotional wreck. So I/we are working towards a better me/us.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
We are making progress and we have all been in the same house since the beginning of August. I know that I can be a little impatient, so I'm working on that. At times I get overwhelmed, but I will continue to pray and focus on the present. I hate feeling like the victim. I actually had to quit my new job earlier this year because I was such an emotional wreck. So I/we are working towards a better me/us.


nique, are you following the program in Surviving an Affair? Right now, it is critical that you get on board with the program. How about the extraordinary precautions checklist? Where you all stand on that?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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4eva....yes my girls love the idea of a brother not understanding how chaotic it would make our lives. I had someone tell me a blended family can be a blessing....I'm personally not interested.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
I had someone tell me a blended family can be a blessing....I'm personally not interested.


faint


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Everything on the checklist has been addressed; we are working on meeting one another's emotional needs and making/avoiding love deposits /love busters. What has been most difficult is the 15 hours of UA, as we have three children under the age of ten. Slow but steady progress. Thanks again:)

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Lol, I apologize I miss quoted her "rewarding " is what she said along with "crazy difficult ". Obviously she is irrelevant and super duper stupid

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Everything on the checklist has been addressed; we are working on meeting one another's emotional needs and making/avoiding love deposits /love busters. What has been most difficult is the 15 hours of UA, as we have three children under the age of ten. Slow but steady progress. Thanks again:)


Good job!! Suggestion: go post your difficulties about getting UA time in the MB101 forum and see if you can get some suggestions. We have members who have many more kids at home. They can give you some help!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: nique84
4eva....yes my girls love the idea of a brother not understanding how chaotic it would make our lives. I had someone tell me a blended family can be a blessing....I'm personally not interested.

Thanks for letting us know what Dr. Harley had to say.

I just wanted to let you know that you're correct to be not interested in blended families. Blended Families are very, very difficult.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: nique84
I had someone tell me a blended family can be a blessing....I'm personally not interested.


Nique, aren't you in a blended family now?

You mentioned that your oldest daughter is not your husbands' - if I am not mistaken...

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You are correct, my oldest is not for my husband.

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Maybe I should have been more specific, I am not interested in the way my H went about creating his blended part of our family. It's not easy, but my oldest daughter was apart of the package. Sounds a little selfish, right? One of the reasons I struggled with the decision.... Ultimately it's up to my H, if he wants to be active in his sons life, he has every right but we won't remain married.

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Originally Posted By: nique84
Maybe I should have been more specific, I am not interested in the way my H went about creating his blended part of our family. It's not easy, but my oldest daughter was apart of the package. Sounds a little selfish, right? One of the reasons I struggled with the decision.... Ultimately it's up to my H, if he wants to be active in his sons life, he has every right but we won't remain married.


You don't sound selfish in the least. You are a WISE person who recognizes a risk when she sees it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: nique84
Dr. Harley discussed the question my H submitted on yesterday's show.

Guess I should have indicated what his suggestion was....
Dr. Harley does not recommend that we inform the kids at this point, as they will want to be in contact with their brother. At some point when they are older we must tell them. I am certain someone will tell them before we do. My daughter is always asking for a brother. Having my kid ask me for something she already has that must be kept secret is driving me crazy. Talk about a trigger

Here's your H's question.
Radio Clip of nique84's H's question


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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