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Well, if you want an interesting read about a relationship, personal growth, and life experience, I think this one may suffice. Be forewarned, this is going to be a long and detailed post. It�s as much for me to vent as to get other opinions. I�m condensing years and months and intense emotions into sentences here, so some of it may not sound as important as it is.
I am currently 29. My girlfriend is 27. We have separate places but spend most of our time together at mine for privacy purposes. Neither of us have children. We�ve been �together� roughly four years.
I met her from a rare coincidence that seemed so perfectly timed as to have to be destined. We went out on a couple of dates and stayed up all night talking, and I forewent sleep just to visit with her after long days of work. Before long at all we were both in love. She met my needs and I hers. Our givers were definitely going at it.
Forward a couple years or so later and I propose to her. I�d never felt a stronger desire to build a life with someone, to care for them, and to allow myself to be cared for. That�s what it is all about summed down isn�t it? Meeting emotional needs and having them met. Sure you can be selfless and seek to meet someone else�s but if yours aren�t met, well�.. I don�t know anyone that selfless. (Thinking of this as I type it all out has me wondering how much of a renter�s mentality I still may have�.. *sigh*) I slide the ring on her finger from my one knee, after she says �yes� with glee. She was radiant that evening.
Things are amazing for a few more months. We have our own pressures from family for the marriage but eventually I decide to wait until we�re more financially stable. She seems relieved at the suggestion and agrees. (In retrospect I�m torn over all of this, did I hurt her? She says no. She seemed relieved instead of sad as I was worried she would be).
Now do things tie together at this one point as we�ve had one therapist suggest? I�m sure they added to it if nothing else.
She slowly grows distant emotionally and less affectionate. Sex is slowly limited and eventually removed. Then so is kissing. Then touching. Then so is simple compassion or concern. All during this I am asking her why the change? My thoughts turn to her cheating. I could never find anything but grew increasingly distrustful and jealous of any relationships she had with male friends. I catch her sexting men on her phone (that are not close to us geographically). I�m angry and guilt her. �You won�t have sex with me but do all of this!?� She tries to make it up to me with sex, but that doesn�t work out. Eventually over the course of months she goes from man to man sexting, getting whatever needs she had met there. She said it make her feel like a sexual person. I can understand and try to be compassionate about it.
Now I�ve always said my one deal breaker was cheating. I rationalized away all of the sexting as not �classifying�. I made sure she knew that I�d want the ring taken off and her gone if she ever did. Ironically after enough arguing over what the underlying issue was in our relationship, she starts to forget the ring after showers, dishes, etc. I finally put it away back in the ring box one day and it takes a week to be asked about it. The ring is still in that box.
During all of this she blames herself for our relationship deteriorating. She is not in a good place emotionally, she says something is wrong with her but she doesn�t know what. We start to go to therapy together. (I should point out that during this time I started reading all of Dr. Haley�s books as well as others, more on that later.)
A couple months in after one particular therapy session we end up in a heated argument where she shifts all blame to both my sexual performance and physical characteristics. Neither of which I�d ever heard anything negative about. So I read countless books on the subject, change my diet, abstain from all pornography and severely limit my masturbation (the last two of which had been an increasingly relied upon means to escape rejection and stress).
I do my best and put forth extraordinary effort to meet any and all of her needs, this doesn�t include any physical ones except giving her plenty of massages. I do this for months. Then one day she goes from cold to completely unbearable. Hateful even. I can�t bear it and tell her whatever it is just come clean. I pour out what�s left of my heart and try to reach hers. Any deal breakers are off the table. I�d never felt such despair and hopelessness at this point. I promise to be amiable and to put aside any deal breakers. She agrees to meet later in person and talk. Now I have to point out that she has extreme anxiety in expressing her feelings to anyone in person. Most any of that is over the phone via texting. So we meet and I find out that
1. We started our relationship before she felt she was ready. She�d been abandoned not long before by a man she loved, and was just seeking friends at the time.
2. The man came back after we�d been together for nearly a year, they met up, and she slept with him.
3. He used her and left again.

So here we are more near the present. I�ve grown a lot emotionally during all of this. Avoiding love busters, meeting her needs, trying to avoid resentment. That�s one thing I really wish I knew how to deal with better. Resentment. It still soars up at times and seeks to sabotage everything along with my taker telling me it is a valid feeling. I suppose it is in a way, I was hurt and don�t wish to be again.
Looking back I see how I was selfish and thoughtless. I demanded sex and kissing to try and meet my own needs that were increasingly not met. Even simple affection at times, then honesty and intimate conversation. I�d have angry outbursts and say disrespectful judgements to manipulate. All of that behavior I believe is gone. The person that should be the judge of that is supposedly going to fill out the questionnaires and read Dr. Harley�s books, but that hasn�t happened in two months after a couple of promises.

So here we are currently. We�ve both been trying to rekindle things. We even succeeded to an extent, finding ourselves up all night and morning just talking. Showing more affection. Herein lies my issue. I�m finding my patience and energy running out. I�m so tired. After years of this emotional roller coaster and being blamed and hurt, I find it hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Especially when that tunnel was all but been sealed with a steel plate a meter thick. I know I share blame in all of this for my behavior and further driving her away. Now I feel more responsibility to help her overcome her aversions, and to exercise patience and selflessness. I find myself wondering if I should. If I can. I hope this will be the motivator we need to move forward with our lives, together. If you made it this far and actually read this, it�s appreciated. Just typing all of this out has helped me immensely. Thoughts? Feelings? How do you deal with resentment? How do you stay motivated?



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Originally Posted by Growingpains
Well, if you want an interesting read about a relationship, personal growth, and life experience, I think this one may suffice. Be forewarned, this is going to be a long and detailed post. It�s as much for me to vent as to get other opinions. I�m condensing years and months and intense emotions into sentences here, so some of it may not sound as important as it is.
I am currently 29. My girlfriend is 27. We have separate places but spend most of our time together at mine for privacy purposes. Neither of us have children. We�ve been �together� roughly four years.
I met her from a rare coincidence that seemed so perfectly timed as to have to be destined. We went out on a couple of dates and stayed up all night talking, and I forewent sleep just to visit with her after long days of work. Before long at all we were both in love. She met my needs and I hers. Our givers were definitely going at it.
Forward a couple years or so later and I propose to her. I�d never felt a stronger desire to build a life with someone, to care for them, and to allow myself to be cared for. That�s what it is all about summed down isn�t it? Meeting emotional needs and having them met. Sure you can be selfless and seek to meet someone else�s but if yours aren�t met, well�.. I don�t know anyone that selfless. (Thinking of this as I type it all out has me wondering how much of a renter�s mentality I still may have�.. *sigh*) I slide the ring on her finger from my one knee, after she says �yes� with glee. She was radiant that evening.
Things are amazing for a few more months. We have our own pressures from family for the marriage but eventually I decide to wait until we�re more financially stable. She seems relieved at the suggestion and agrees. (In retrospect I�m torn over all of this, did I hurt her? She says no. She seemed relieved instead of sad as I was worried she would be).
Now do things tie together at this one point as we�ve had one therapist suggest? I�m sure they added to it if nothing else.
She slowly grows distant emotionally and less affectionate. Sex is slowly limited and eventually removed. Then so is kissing. Then touching. Then so is simple compassion or concern. All during this I am asking her why the change? My thoughts turn to her cheating. I could never find anything but grew increasingly distrustful and jealous of any relationships she had with male friends. I catch her sexting men on her phone (that are not close to us geographically). I�m angry and guilt her. �You won�t have sex with me but do all of this!?� She tries to make it up to me with sex, but that doesn�t work out. Eventually over the course of months she goes from man to man sexting, getting whatever needs she had met there. She said it make her feel like a sexual person. I can understand and try to be compassionate about it.
Now I�ve always said my one deal breaker was cheating. I rationalized away all of the sexting as not �classifying�. I made sure she knew that I�d want the ring taken off and her gone if she ever did. Ironically after enough arguing over what the underlying issue was in our relationship, she starts to forget the ring after showers, dishes, etc. I finally put it away back in the ring box one day and it takes a week to be asked about it. The ring is still in that box.
During all of this she blames herself for our relationship deteriorating. She is not in a good place emotionally, she says something is wrong with her but she doesn�t know what. We start to go to therapy together. (I should point out that during this time I started reading all of Dr. Haley�s books as well as others, more on that later.)
A couple months in after one particular therapy session we end up in a heated argument where she shifts all blame to both my sexual performance and physical characteristics. Neither of which I�d ever heard anything negative about. So I read countless books on the subject, change my diet, abstain from all pornography and severely limit my masturbation (the last two of which had been an increasingly relied upon means to escape rejection and stress).
I do my best and put forth extraordinary effort to meet any and all of her needs, this doesn�t include any physical ones except giving her plenty of massages. I do this for months. Then one day she goes from cold to completely unbearable. Hateful even. I can�t bear it and tell her whatever it is just come clean. I pour out what�s left of my heart and try to reach hers. Any deal breakers are off the table. I�d never felt such despair and hopelessness at this point. I promise to be amiable and to put aside any deal breakers. She agrees to meet later in person and talk. Now I have to point out that she has extreme anxiety in expressing her feelings to anyone in person. Most any of that is over the phone via texting. So we meet and I find out that
1. We started our relationship before she felt she was ready. She�d been abandoned not long before by a man she loved, and was just seeking friends at the time.
2. The man came back after we�d been together for nearly a year, they met up, and she slept with him.
3. He used her and left again.

So here we are more near the present. I�ve grown a lot emotionally during all of this. Avoiding love busters, meeting her needs, trying to avoid resentment. That�s one thing I really wish I knew how to deal with better. Resentment. It still soars up at times and seeks to sabotage everything along with my taker telling me it is a valid feeling. I suppose it is in a way, I was hurt and don�t wish to be again.
Looking back I see how I was selfish and thoughtless. I demanded sex and kissing to try and meet my own needs that were increasingly not met. Even simple affection at times, then honesty and intimate conversation. I�d have angry outbursts and say disrespectful judgements to manipulate. All of that behavior I believe is gone. The person that should be the judge of that is supposedly going to fill out the questionnaires and read Dr. Harley�s books, but that hasn�t happened in two months after a couple of promises.

So here we are currently. We�ve both been trying to rekindle things. We even succeeded to an extent, finding ourselves up all night and morning just talking. Showing more affection. Herein lies my issue. I�m finding my patience and energy running out. I�m so tired. After years of this emotional roller coaster and being blamed and hurt, I find it hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Especially when that tunnel was all but been sealed with a steel plate a meter thick. I know I share blame in all of this for my behavior and further driving her away. Now I feel more responsibility to help her overcome her aversions, and to exercise patience and selflessness. I find myself wondering if I should. If I can. I hope this will be the motivator we need to move forward with our lives, together. If you made it this far and actually read this, it�s appreciated. Just typing all of this out has helped me immensely. Thoughts? Feelings? How do you deal with resentment? How do you stay motivated?
Welcome to MB.

Dealing with resentment and staying motivated is an issue for marriage, especially one with children. In a dating relationship there is no need to do this. She slept with somebody else. Move on.

You were engaged to be married. You should see your dating and engagement as an interview for marriage. She failed the interview. There is no need to try and repair something that never got to the stage of marriage.

If you have read Dr Harley's work (and it seems as if you've read some of it, from your terminology), you will see that his advice is not to have a sexual relationship before marriage. The feelings that we get in a sexual relationship distort our ability to judge whether a partner is the right one to marry. Certainly, they seem to have affected your girlfriend's ability to judge whether she should have become engaged to you, given that she was still in love with somebody else.

Why is she still with you now, if she is experiencing aversion and is not happy?


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She's expressed a desire to mend things and further our relationship. I know guilt plays into her motivations some. Aye I've read a lot of it and have been on here quite a bit lurking before finally posting the above too. She's been unhappy since a couple years into our relationship. She's been more happy as of late as she's actually letting me meet some of her needs again.

Quite true and hard to hear about thinking of it as her still being in love then.... as well as sex distorting her views into thinking she should engage me if I am understanding your intent correctly. I have not thought of it that way.

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Sugarcane also said that she was not suitable for marriage. Did you hear that part?

She openly sexted men without concern for you. Also was dishonest and physically cheated with an ex. Given her behavior I would not be surprised to find out that there are more situations like this you still don't know about. You are not married and have no children. I don't know why you would stay and try to work on a relationship with this level of dishonesty and lack of care for you. Why are you setting your bar so low?

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I did hear that part.

I suppose empathy is the answer. As well as a sense of low self worth after all this..... hard to tell at this point. After years of being torn down I guess it's easier to look to fix something that I had (Ha... in a twisted sense) than find something new.

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That is not empathy my friend. That is simply enabling bad behavior. Not to mention sending the message that she can treat you any way she wants and you will just slug on through.

Unless you want to sign up for a lifetime of this type of uncaring behavior, I would walk away from this. There are plenty of young women in the world who will not behave this way in a relationship.

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Hi Growingpains,

I have recently posted here "After engagement, before marriage" and received many advices from fellow MBers. While our situation is different, we share some parallels. I am in the same situation where i have already proposed to my ex-fiance but we drifted apart before we sealed the deal. Mine is in a worse shape as my ex-fiance went into withdrawal state of mind and she is no longer trying. She is also not willing to cut ties with her co-worker that is hindering any chance of me depositing love units.

The overarching message i received was that me and my ex-fiance are not legally married and she has failed the interview for marriage. Since 2 days ago, i have stopped all contact with her and there were no signs of her attempting to re-establish contact. I turned my focus to self improvement and i am starting to regain confidence in myself.

It sounds to me that you have done the emotional needs questionaire but she has not?

For my case, i found MB late and there was no way my ex-fiance would be responsive to provide me with answers to the emotional needs questionaire. But my own answers were the ones that made me find peace and decided on stopping contact. She was not adequately fulfilling my emotional needs and if she doesn't put it effort, she will never properly fulfill them. Since she is no longer trying to make the relationship work, i find no point in holding on.

So my own advice to you is to let her know that you are willing to make things work but it has to be done together. Encourage her to answer the questionaire honestly and use that as a basis to see where to head to next. Come back here and i'm sure many other MBers will be happy to help.

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I feel for you Recovery101. Sorry to hear your story, I definitely understand some of the associated pain. She's sworn to fill out the questionnaire first thing tomorrow. I've been waiting two months. I've been patient. I hate to sound like it's an ultimatum but have made it clear how important this is to me and us. Our therapist even issued this as an assignment as well. It's still not complete. If it isn't tomorrow I may take it for the sign that it is and call enough enough. I can't take years more of manipulation and pain after what I have already.

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Why are you pressuring this woman to stay with you?

Living together before marriage is a terrible relationship move. You are trying to behave as if you are married when she has no such obligation to you. STOP! being demanding when you have no REAL skin in the game is extremely unattractive. Even if you were married, you would not have the right to make demands.

If she is not living up to your expectations, leave. You have no obligation to stay because you are not married.

Next time, don't live together or have sex until after the wedding.

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Growingpains,

You are not being empathetic but foolish. There are so many good women out there, DON'T settle for one like this. I know somewhere in the back of your mind a voice of reason is probably already screaming this at you.

You have tunnelvision because you are in love with her, but to an outsider it is as clear as day. She isn't fit for marriage. Sexting at age 27 should send HUGE red flags up that she is not very mature. There's no real excuse for that.

You can't build a future with a woman like this and to try to is just asking for problems. My advice would be the same if you guys were both 10 years younger but especially with you both nearing 30, you need to set the bar higher. Find someone who has grown up. She hasn't. You don't want to end up in a situation like mine where she never changes and then does the same types of things after you are married, and there is little reason to believe this pattern of behavior won't repeat itself.

And I agree about keeping sex out of your next relationship until marriage. It will cloud your judgement.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I've read the articles both here and I believe the same are in some of the books. Indeed we do live as if we're married to an extent.
All of the following is going to sound like me simply defending her; indeed I suppose I still do. She's expressed what I believe to be a heartfelt desire to "not be that woman again". She's putting forth a lot of effort. I feel like for me to push too hard is me being selfish and demanding again, something I don't desire to be. She's explained how all of the physical things are extremely difficult and uncomfortable to her after years of making herself hate them. She speaks of grand plans together and I find myself wanting the same (with her...).
Our therapists latest suggestion was to simply have sex. Her response to that from what she said is that sure physically it would be possible but there'd be no meaning behind it. She actually met me at the park and we talked for hours about it. She's been a lot more touchy feely lately as long as it can't be interpreted as too "intimate" from her perspective.
I feel like if I just walked away now I'd be:
1. Selfish
2. A coward for taking the easy way out
3. Regret the possibilities of what could of been for the rest of my life
4. Giving up on a person that has been hurt so much in her life that I fear for her safety in me leaving too (Yes I mean from a suicidal stand point)
5. Hurting her (yet again)

She's given me examples lately of when she feels I've been demanding, selfish, angry, and thoughtless. I've made her cry. At times I wonder if it's even real however. After being lead on for so long, trust isn't easy.

I really do feel such an intense responsibility to give her a chance and for me to further refine my behavior so I feel she has a chance to actually love me again.

Maybe I am just blind and foolish. I was before obviously. (I feel a "Was? You still are!" coming on)

Anyways, I appreciate the opinions/advice. I'm still torn and feel the only thing I can do now is give it more time.

Fyi that questionnaire was never done. She did take it home without me mentioning it. We ended up in an argument with me saying I feel like she is avoiding things that I feel are important for us to be able to meet each other's needs. She said she'd been trying and felt I never noticed. I always try to say I appreciate her trying and thank her for anything she does for me. I validate her feelings instead of offering solutions. I ask her thoughts on anything that involves us both.

Alright.... I'm hopping off here again to process and try to avoid yet another depressed mood.


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It is your life to live. If you want to spend it in the manner that you currently are, with a woman who has no intention of making changes or being faithful to you, using the excuse of a difficult past to rationalize her behavior, then that is up to you.

Nobody here is going to tell you to keep trying to fix a majorly damaged dating relationship with no shared kids, with a woman who seems to want to justify poor behavior rather than change it. There are too many other fish in the sea for that.




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Welcome to MB!

Thank you for sharing your well written and emotionally honest story. This is a relationship story I can relate to! I have been on the emotional rollercoaster too, a long time ago...

You feel like you have grown emotionally because you are remorseful for pushing her, guilt tripping her, making demands etc.
That's a lesson well learned brother, although I think you were flogging a dead horse back then, if that makes you feel any better...

You see, she SLEPT WITH HER EX a year into what should be the honeymoon phase of a relationship.
STOP!
Everything else gone wrong in this love story is just a result of that: SHE HAS POOR BOUNDARIES, she is a liar and a cheater and she hates herself for it!
She hates YOU for enabling her bad behaviour and not setting boundaries for her or yourself!

YOU need to get out of the FOG!
FEAR - OBLIGATION - GUILT-cycle.

She probably has had a bad childhood.
Not your fault, but you cannot fix this one...

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Originally Posted by geroldmodel
Welcome to MB!

Thank you for sharing your well written and emotionally honest story. This is a relationship story I can relate to! I have been on the emotional rollercoaster too, a long time ago...

You feel like you have grown emotionally because you are remorseful for pushing her, guilt tripping her, making demands etc.
That's a lesson well learned brother, although I think you were flogging a dead horse back then, if that makes you feel any better...

You see, she SLEPT WITH HER EX a year into what should be the honeymoon phase of a relationship.
STOP!
Everything else gone wrong in this love story is just a result of that: SHE HAS POOR BOUNDARIES, she is a liar and a cheater and she hates herself for it!
She hates YOU for enabling her bad behaviour and not setting boundaries for her or yourself!

YOU need to get out of the FOG!
FEAR - OBLIGATION - GUILT-cycle.

She probably has had a bad childhood.
Not your fault, but you cannot fix this one...

Thanks for the welcome.

Glad to share in a way..... it made for a good outlet of my feelings.

Hahaha at flogging a dead horse back then.

Very true about the boundaries. It's the only really obvious "power struggle" we get into. She's spent so damn wrong seeing no issues there it's hard for her to see a different point of view. (Judgemental? Maybe..... but true none the less) She does hate herself for it.

I always made that limit clear as far as cheating. That was the only thing I was adamant about. I think this is why it took so dang long for her to come clean. Or for her to finally realize the guy wasn't coming back..... Maybe I'm rationalizing her behavior too much in a positive light for my own sanity/self worth here.

Interesting having a cycle summed up so clearly.

Aye..... a terrible one. I suppose we'll see.




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Originally Posted by unwritten
It is your life to live. If you want to spend it in the manner that you currently are, with a woman who has no intention of making changes or being faithful to you, using the excuse of a difficult past to rationalize her behavior, then that is up to you.

Nobody here is going to tell you to keep trying to fix a majorly damaged dating relationship with no shared kids, with a woman who seems to want to justify poor behavior rather than change it. There are too many other fish in the sea for that.

Agreed.

I'm seeing that in regards to the fixing a majorly damaged dating relationship with no kids thing as far as not having but one person even lean towards attempting to fix it. I still appreciate all of the opinions though, they do help me think about all of this.

I see so much pain in these forums from the people that have been hurt by similar behaviors/actions as I've shared in my original post. I appreciate a lot of the suggestions for what I am taking them as: To try and let me learn from them instead of experiencing more pain myself.

I am trying to stay positive in the face of all of this. I know I bring myself a lot of unnecessary pain, but that's the type of person I am...... *shrug*

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Originally Posted by axslinger85
Growingpains,

You are not being empathetic but foolish. There are so many good women out there, DON'T settle for one like this. I know somewhere in the back of your mind a voice of reason is probably already screaming this at you.

You have tunnelvision because you are in love with her, but to an outsider it is as clear as day. She isn't fit for marriage. Sexting at age 27 should send HUGE red flags up that she is not very mature. There's no real excuse for that.

You can't build a future with a woman like this and to try to is just asking for problems. My advice would be the same if you guys were both 10 years younger but especially with you both nearing 30, you need to set the bar higher. Find someone who has grown up. She hasn't. You don't want to end up in a situation like mine where she never changes and then does the same types of things after you are married, and there is little reason to believe this pattern of behavior won't repeat itself.

And I agree about keeping sex out of your next relationship until marriage. It will cloud your judgement.

I read your entire story the other day (it took hours). I see where you're coming from. Your story being sad doesn't even begin to cut it.

We'll see as far as what the future holds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this all and I don't think I could live with the regret of having not given things a second chance. I'm putting everything back into it and hope things will get to where we're both mature enough to enter into marriage as buyers. Feeling like the proverbial mule with a carrot on a stick in front of him, hoping to get to the dream. I'll surely still be around these forums, for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Growingpains
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Growingpains,

You are not being empathetic but foolish. There are so many good women out there, DON'T settle for one like this. I know somewhere in the back of your mind a voice of reason is probably already screaming this at you.

You have tunnelvision because you are in love with her, but to an outsider it is as clear as day. She isn't fit for marriage. Sexting at age 27 should send HUGE red flags up that she is not very mature. There's no real excuse for that.

You can't build a future with a woman like this and to try to is just asking for problems. My advice would be the same if you guys were both 10 years younger but especially with you both nearing 30, you need to set the bar higher. Find someone who has grown up. She hasn't. You don't want to end up in a situation like mine where she never changes and then does the same types of things after you are married, and there is little reason to believe this pattern of behavior won't repeat itself.

And I agree about keeping sex out of your next relationship until marriage. It will cloud your judgement.

I read your entire story the other day (it took hours). I see where you're coming from. Your story being sad doesn't even begin to cut it.

We'll see as far as what the future holds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this all and I don't think I could live with the regret of having not given things a second chance. I'm putting everything back into it and hope things will get to where we're both mature enough to enter into marriage as buyers. Feeling like the proverbial mule with a carrot on a stick in front of him, hoping to get to the dream. I'll surely still be around these forums, for better or worse.

The difference with Ax is that he was MARRIED, not dating. He fought for his marriage and MB gave him the tools to do so. If he had come here with a girlfriend who was cheating, we would have advised him to run for the hills, as we are advising you to do. The other difference is, Ax put the effort in as advised, and then when his WW did not respond he divorced and moved on. Now he has his bar set high and will only entertain relationships that are MB material. Am I right Ax? He did not just say...ah I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll just choose to live my life with women who have no respect for me... (this is what you are doing).

There is no comparison between Ax's story and yours. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
Originally Posted by Growingpains
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Growingpains,

You are not being empathetic but foolish. There are so many good women out there, DON'T settle for one like this. I know somewhere in the back of your mind a voice of reason is probably already screaming this at you.

You have tunnelvision because you are in love with her, but to an outsider it is as clear as day. She isn't fit for marriage. Sexting at age 27 should send HUGE red flags up that she is not very mature. There's no real excuse for that.

You can't build a future with a woman like this and to try to is just asking for problems. My advice would be the same if you guys were both 10 years younger but especially with you both nearing 30, you need to set the bar higher. Find someone who has grown up. She hasn't. You don't want to end up in a situation like mine where she never changes and then does the same types of things after you are married, and there is little reason to believe this pattern of behavior won't repeat itself.

And I agree about keeping sex out of your next relationship until marriage. It will cloud your judgement.

I read your entire story the other day (it took hours). I see where you're coming from. Your story being sad doesn't even begin to cut it.

We'll see as far as what the future holds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this all and I don't think I could live with the regret of having not given things a second chance. I'm putting everything back into it and hope things will get to where we're both mature enough to enter into marriage as buyers. Feeling like the proverbial mule with a carrot on a stick in front of him, hoping to get to the dream. I'll surely still be around these forums, for better or worse.

The difference with Ax is that he was MARRIED, not dating. He fought for his marriage and MB gave him the tools to do so. If he had come here with a girlfriend who was cheating, we would have advised him to run for the hills, as we are advising you to do. The other difference is, Ax put the effort in as advised, and then when his WW did not respond he divorced and moved on. Now he has his bar set high and will only entertain relationships that are MB material. Am I right Ax? He did not just say...ah I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll just choose to live my life with women who have no respect for me... (this is what you are doing).

There is no comparison between Ax's story and yours. Sorry.

I fail to see where I said there was a comparison? I said I understood his reference more clearly now when he cautioned having something similar to him happen to me. Your attempt at completely minimizing any feelings or pain simply because marriage hadn't happened isn't appreciated though. I try to understand the differences and know it's all to a much greater degree. If any post in this section is always going to be met with such hatred towards people that aren't married, why have it?

If you're upset your life altering advice isn't jumped on vehemently..... well I can't help that.

More like was forced to divorce as I read it too.

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Originally Posted by Growingpains
Originally Posted by unwritten
Originally Posted by Growingpains
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Growingpains,

You are not being empathetic but foolish. There are so many good women out there, DON'T settle for one like this. I know somewhere in the back of your mind a voice of reason is probably already screaming this at you.

You have tunnelvision because you are in love with her, but to an outsider it is as clear as day. She isn't fit for marriage. Sexting at age 27 should send HUGE red flags up that she is not very mature. There's no real excuse for that.

You can't build a future with a woman like this and to try to is just asking for problems. My advice would be the same if you guys were both 10 years younger but especially with you both nearing 30, you need to set the bar higher. Find someone who has grown up. She hasn't. You don't want to end up in a situation like mine where she never changes and then does the same types of things after you are married, and there is little reason to believe this pattern of behavior won't repeat itself.

And I agree about keeping sex out of your next relationship until marriage. It will cloud your judgement.

I read your entire story the other day (it took hours). I see where you're coming from. Your story being sad doesn't even begin to cut it.

We'll see as far as what the future holds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this all and I don't think I could live with the regret of having not given things a second chance. I'm putting everything back into it and hope things will get to where we're both mature enough to enter into marriage as buyers. Feeling like the proverbial mule with a carrot on a stick in front of him, hoping to get to the dream. I'll surely still be around these forums, for better or worse.

The difference with Ax is that he was MARRIED, not dating. He fought for his marriage and MB gave him the tools to do so. If he had come here with a girlfriend who was cheating, we would have advised him to run for the hills, as we are advising you to do. The other difference is, Ax put the effort in as advised, and then when his WW did not respond he divorced and moved on. Now he has his bar set high and will only entertain relationships that are MB material. Am I right Ax? He did not just say...ah I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll just choose to live my life with women who have no respect for me... (this is what you are doing).

There is no comparison between Ax's story and yours. Sorry.

I fail to see where I said there was a comparison? I said I understood his reference more clearly now when he cautioned having something similar to him happen to me. Your attempt at completely minimizing any feelings or pain simply because marriage hadn't happened isn't appreciated though. I try to understand the differences and know it's all to a much greater degree. If any post in this section is always going to be met with such hatred towards people that aren't married, why have it?

If you're upset your life altering advice isn't jumped on vehemently..... well I can't help that.

More like was forced to divorce as I read it too.

There's no hatred here.

You aren't arguing about basic POJA, blending a family, or another common "dating" issue. Your relationship is CLEARLY one that is doomed for failure, but you won't hear of it. So yes, posters are frustrated. Imagine this pain x 1000 - children, mortgages, businesses, an entire life completely intertwined. That's the difference. Yet here you are, with a woman who obviously doesn't respect you, nothing tying you to her, and you persist.

So, nobody here can help you unless you are willing to help yourself, sorry. There's nothing attractive about being a doormat, which is where you find yourself. No, she's not thinking you of a hero willing to "save" this. You're being a doormat until the next fella comes along. FYI I am female too, and same age as her.

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