I'm starting a new thread for a very specific question:

When you are in plan A, avoiding all fights with WS... sometimes, the WS actions can be very harmful.. financially, or harmful to the children. How would you handle the situation... the balance between avoiding a fight and putting a stop to the WS's harmful behaviors?

Here is an example... It seems that the WW is emotionally disconnected from me but making that up for that with the children. As such, the children no longer have an enforceable bed time nor enforceable consequences for anything.

I can:
a) step in, give the kids boundaries, limits, and discipline that they need meanwhile creating a fight with the WS and get accused of being a child abuser (I don't spank or yell, but I would physically carry them to bed, put them in time out, or take something away from them) This creates a big fight with WS.

b) Not create a fight, walk away, and let the WS feel the consequences of the children's behavior.

I have been mostly doing scenario b), but my children's behavior is getting really bad and I'm starting to fear for them.

When my WS finally does get fed up with the children she yells so loud I become afraid for them.. then the next moment any punishment is forgotten.

Plan A means that you demonstrate to your WS that you will meet her needs if she ends her affair. It also means that you expose the affair. So I am not sure what you are talking about.

It doesn't have anything to do with the situations you describe. Of course, you should not allow your WS to hurt your children or your finances.

If your WS is harming your children or your finances, then you put a stop to it. You don't fight, you politely step in and protect your family. As far as your children's bedtime, I would try and work out a plan with her that you both like.

The part of plan A I am talking about is to not fight, and no LB's... (disrespectful judgements ). I need to step in and raise my kids, but I cannot "straighten out" my spouse.... and my WW will not negotiate nor be rational because she is in the Fog (I think). What is the best way to have this conversation? Or no conversation, just do it?

Ok, but Plan A nowhere says to allow your spouse to destroy your finances or hurt your children. It says to meet her needs, avoid lovebusters, avoid fights. It doesn't mean you sit around like a doormat and allow your spouse to harm you.

here

Any ideas on how to address the really bad behavior of WW while "avoiding fights"? I feel my kids slipping away... they hit, use bad language, and they don't listen. My WW practically encourage d this. All the progress I made with them while the WW was away has been wiped out. When I try to step in and take control, she fights me. She also refuses to talk to me about it.

Don't address her bad behavior, but start taking charge of your children.

And keep in mind that you made the decision to stay with your wayward wife "for your children." Not sure how that is good for your kids.

The desicion was the lesser of all evils for my children. I spent 100K in legal fees already and that did not keep her away. The children's behavior is also a problem after the police come and escort mom away. .. and she still comes back the next day. My only other option was to try to work with the WS. If there is no improvement, my only option is to sell the house and move the kids away..... I'm really besides myself on how difficult and toxic my WS really is. I tried again last night to simply put my kids to bed and she came in, through me out of the room, then let my younger son out of his bed to go sleep in her bed in the guestroom. How specifically should I handle that? There is sure to be a repeat tonight.

I fail to see how this is the lesser of evil for your children. Surely you can see how damaging this is to your kids? I would not give up until you are separated and your kids are safe. I sure wouldn't just give up.

If I execute plan B today, that means leaving the house and the kids while continuing to pay all the bills. Would you leave your kids alone with this woman? What would you do if you were in my shoes?we have no savings left.

Of course not. I would move heaven and earth to separate and take your kids to safety. The last thing I would do is leave my kids with her.

If I execute plan B today, that means leaving the house and the kids while continuing to pay all the bills. Would you leave your kids alone with this woman? What would you do if you were in my shoes?we have no savings left. [/quote]

Of course not. I would move heaven and earth to separate and take your kids to safety. The last thing I would do is leave my kids with her. [/quote]

Me too... the problem I run into is that bad parenting, affairs, and even kidnapping your own children is not against the law. If I simply try to put my kids to bed, I get accused of child abuse. The legal route won't work. I wish my WW would simply run away to be with the other man... I would simply sell the house and move away.. but she won't do that. Any other ideas? Why is it so hard to outsmart her?

Yes, I would try the legal route. Other fathers here have been successful. You can't just give up because one tactic doesn't work.

So I again get back to:

a)If this behavior is caused by an affair, then one of two things happens.. .the affair dies away, she gets over withdrawal or whatever.. and things should improve over time or b)she runs away to be with the other man.. the legal actions I did take keep the kids at home at least so they stay with me... the problem should resolve itself one way or another...

b)If the behavior is not caused by the affair, either my wife has a mental disorder, she is possessed by satin, or perhaps she is just a really bad, selfish, or unintelligent person and I made a horrible mistake for marring her (after dating her for 6 years)

given some time... I would think this will become more clear; but I really am hoping for scenario a).

I am not following you at all. I can see from your earlier posts that she has been reckless for much of your marriage. What difference does it make WHY she is reckless? The effect is the same on the children. If it is due to a mental illness are you any less obliged to protect your kids?

Your children are innocent victims in all this. Giving her "time" to screw them up more seems very negligent.

It seems you have a strategy of conflict avoidance and avoiding conflict in this situation hurts your children terribly.

[/quote]
I am not following you at all. I can see from your earlier posts that she has been reckless for much of your marriage. What difference does it make WHY she is reckless? The effect is the same on the children. If it is due to a mental illness are you any less obliged to protect your kids?

Your children are innocent victims in all this. Giving her "time" to screw them up more seems very negligent.

It seems you have a strategy of conflict avoidance and avoiding conflict in this situation hurts your children terribly. [/quote]


My WW has been a good wife to me until our second child was born, then she began to ignore me and have lots of independent behavior. Her parenting skills became worse and worse (or more apparent) as the children got older. My feeling is that she gave up her emotional bond to me for the children which actually made her a really bad parent for two reasons: #1 she could not create appropriate limits and consequences for the children nor allow them to become independent and #2 she could not demonstrate problem solving skills with me in front the children because she stopped negotiating with me due to her loss of emotional connection.

Here is the heard reality from my legal team...
#1 I can spend another $100K fighting her for sole custody of the children.. there is a low % chance that I will get it. The most likely outcome is that I will get 50% custody. When I do get 50% custody, she will still do everything in her power to alienate the kids from me.
#2 After a couple more years, the kids will no longer meet her selfish emotional need because they are growing up... logic will say that she will leave on her own.

The truth is that she is a horrible parent and a worse wife but she does not physically or sexually abuse the children so the court will not help me.

What is really strange.. when we did the emotional needs survey, she listed family commitment as her number 1 emotional need. When I step in to do my part to help raise and develop the children.. .she really wants me to go away. That really makes no sense.... unless the reason is that she does not want her emotional need met by me because of the affair. She may want to "cut me off" as the father because she is fantasizing still about the other man... is that possible? Everything that I do for my kids seems to have no impact on her love bank. Any thoughts on that???

My thought is that you should focus all of your efforts on finding a legal solution that will protect your kids. You have a legal opinion from one guy; there are many other lawyers out there. It makes no sense to focus on questionnaires and whatnot when your children are being treated so poorly.

We have many men who got sole custody of their children on much less than what you present here. All they did was try. I would not give up until you find a solution.

I will be on with Dr. H this week.. we'll see what he thinks. I can get another legal opinion.

My kids punch, bite, and say they hate me. I asked my WW if she thinks this behavior is OK and if she has any ideas on what to do about it. She says that the kids are "little angels" and the is nothing to do.

Is there anything I could possibly be doing wrong? is there any way I could be a better father? I will make any changes to be a better parent... my WW can see that as an example and follow it or ignore it? Could the problem really be 100% her right now? Is there nothing I can do to be a better parent father?

Thats great that you are going to be on with Dr. Harley! Hope he can help.