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The point I wanted to make, memory is followed by emotion. If you keep running those memories in your head, you will experience those emotions. That is how our brain works.

I will not discuss your post further, because of this. You should not be occupied crying over spilled milk. And his emotions are the least of your and mine problems, at this moment.

Your husband is having an affair, he is in the fog, he is incapable of coherent thoughts because of the affair. Don't be bothered with them.

As long as he is in the affair, don't pay attention to his fogbabble.

I was talking about your hurt, your emotion. You think back, you hurt. You keep your finger in the flame, you hurt, why keep your finger in a place you know hurts? Why stay in this hurtful situation any longer than nessecary?

Half hearted exposure is bad. You want it to be effective. You don't kill fire with a drop of water, you flood it.

And the counselor you are looking for, you already found him. His last name is Harley.His contact info is right on this site. You can make an appointment, that would be wonderful.

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Making 'want' to raise his hands... he was very careful to say I make him 'want' to... But I agree and again, if things were that bad, why didn't he call a marriage counselor, or ask me to do it, instead of having an affair?

The counselor said that by not giving him the keys and not letting him leave, I crossed a boundary.

I was extremely reluctant to tell her about him ripping my shorts because she made it clear that she had to 'report' any domestic abuse and suicidal thoughts- so I didn't tell her about that.

But I did tell her what he said about wanting to punch me in the face, and she said "Do you have anger issues?" to him... He said no, and she let it go, and looked at me and said "Why do you want to be with someone who is so disrespectful of you?"

Passive/Aggressive twit.

How about the rest? Since I had an idiot counselor, if I do manage to win this war, are there counselor out there that I can 'trust' to tell him all the things you've all said to me?

For example- Yes, you can change that behavior. Or, "That is wayward spouse speak for don't rock my perfectly floating boat," etc, etc....

Not sure if I've said this before, but he's acting like he's on Jerry Springer when what he needs is a good dose of Dr. Phil.

But my experience with counselors hasn't revealed any "Dr. Phil" types... so....

Seriously... I can't tell you how much it HURTS that people in my life have said a lot of the same things you've all said in here, to me, to my face, but refused to say it to his face.

And the excuses they gave me for refusing to say it to him were "Well, he doesn't care."

Clearly, he's easily influenced, judging by how easy it was for the little slut to convince him he had such an unhappy home life that he should leave his wife and be with her... so let's use that to our advantage and apply the 'peer pressure'...

When everyone refused, it made me feel like they wanted to see my marriage come to an end.




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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
Thank you goody2shoes. I feel that right now, I am being ruled by my emotions and I can't trust any decisions I make in a state like this. That's why I'm holding back. I am doing some more research as well and would love to see any you might be able to link to, since trying to figure out the correct search phrase is proving difficult.

Fl2, the source we rely upon here is Dr. Bill Harley, the author of Surviving an Affair. WE can help you follow his program but won't recommend any other path. WE are not recommending any steps that are based on emotions. WE are not emotional and neither is Dr Harley. [you are] The steps we recommended are based on years of clinical practice by Dr Harley. We are not going to recommend anything else because we know that is what works the best.

Every person on this forum who has saved their marriage attributes it to exposure and Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist, calls exposure the most effective weapon in saving a marriage. If anyone tells you otherwise, they are flat out giving you bad advice.

So I understand that your head is not clear, but the same does not apply to Dr. Bill Harley. His recommendations were made in a very clear headed manner, based on 40 years of clinical practice.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
The day he ripped my shorts off of me, he became 'afraid of himself.'

Shortly after that, he told me that 'everyone' was telling him that "if the person you're with is making you want to raise your hands to them, then you shouldn't be with that person."

The day he came to get the truck, he pushed me and spit in my face.

I feel that there is no counselor on Earth who is going to disagree with that statement, and honestly, I don't want to waste any more time on him, or with anyone, who can't overcome that limited way of thinking...


Otherwise, I'm not sure I want to bother with any more attempts at reconciling anyway.

FL2, I don't have time to read an overly long post, but this just caught my eye. Your husband physically assaulted you and then blamed YOU. In that case, Dr. Harley would not recommend that you EVER reconcile with him unless and until he gets professional help for his anger problem. As it is now, he doesn't even believe the problem lies with him, but with you. As such, he is not safe and you are better off without him.

Even so, you should proceed with exposure and sending him a Plan B letter. The Plan B letter would specify that in order for you to EVER even consider reconciliation, he would have to end his affair, commit to a marriage recovery plan and go through an extensive anger management program.

I wanted to add something about the program and this forum. We are very action oriented and not blog oriented. There are a lot of posts on this thread that are more akin to blogging than establishing a plan of action. That's not really a good use of the forum.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
And the excuses they gave me for refusing to say it to him were "Well, he doesn't care."

...

When everyone refused, it made me feel like they wanted to see my marriage come to an end.

I'm afraid he doesn't care, but that can change.

We certainly don't want to see your marriage come to an end, if that can be prevented. But the best way to prevent it is by following Dr. Harley's program here. To do that, you've got to do your part and set the bar high for him. That is what following the program means. The program doesn't work if it isn't followed. Focus on finding out what the program says you need to do, and on doing it!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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And that Melody is what I fear. I get him to commit to saving the marriage, and I pay a fortune to a counselor, who still won't give him the straight talk that says, directly to him, "You have an anger issue and you need to get help" and "I don't suggest you stay married." I want a counselor who will say, "You CAN get help for that."

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If you get to that point, do the coaching program through MB.

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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
And that Melody is what I fear. I get him to commit to saving the marriage, and I pay a fortune to a counselor, who still won't give him the straight talk that says, directly to him, "You have an anger issue and you need to get help" and "I don't suggest you stay married." I want a counselor who will say, "You CAN get help for that."
If you don't take the first step, you will never get to that final part of your marathon.

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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
And that Melody is what I fear. I get him to commit to saving the marriage, and I pay a fortune to a counselor, who still won't give him the straight talk that says, directly to him, "You have an anger issue and you need to get help" and "I don't suggest you stay married." I want a counselor who will say, "You CAN get help for that."

I am not sure why you want to go to counseling so badly at this crucial time. That is a distraction. Did you read my post? You don't need a counselor, you need to follow this program. And he either gets on board or you move on.

It costs you nothing to write a Plan B letter and send it. That is what is recommended. In your letter, you would give him the path back to you. He either takes it or he doesn't. *YOU* lay out the conditions in your letter.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
The day he ripped my shorts off of me, he became 'afraid of himself.'

Shortly after that, he told me that 'everyone' was telling him that "if the person you're with is making you want to raise your hands to them, then you shouldn't be with that person."

The day he came to get the truck, he pushed me and spit in my face.

I feel that there is no counselor on Earth who is going to disagree with that statement, and honestly, I don't want to waste any more time on him, or with anyone, who can't overcome that limited way of thinking...


Otherwise, I'm not sure I want to bother with any more attempts at reconciling anyway.

FL2, I don't have time to read an overly long post, but this just caught my eye. Your husband physically assaulted you and then blamed YOU. In that case, Dr. Harley would not recommend that you EVER reconcile with him unless and until he gets professional help for his anger problem. As it is now, he doesn't even believe the problem lies with him, but with you. As such, he is not safe and you are better off without him.

Even so, you should proceed with exposure and sending him a Plan B letter. The Plan B letter would specify that in order for you to EVER even consider reconciliation, he would have to end his affair, commit to a marriage recovery plan and go through an extensive anger management program.

I wanted to add something about the program and this forum. We are very action oriented and not blog oriented. There are a lot of posts on this thread that are more akin to blogging than establishing a plan of action. That's not really a good use of the forum.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
I want a counselor who will say, "You CAN get help for that."

Keep in mind that a counselor has much LESS leverage than you. You are much more influential than any counselor. So if you raise the bar and say this is what it will take to come back, he either gets on board or you move on. [both are good outcomes] But unless he comes to you on bended knee, begging to come back, you should not even consider taking him back. He is not safe for you emotionally or physically as he is today.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
Clearly, he's easily influenced, judging by how easy it was for the little slut to convince him he had such an unhappy home life that he should leave his wife and be with her... so let's use that to our advantage and apply the 'peer pressure'...

When everyone refused, it made me feel like they wanted to see my marriage come to an end.
FL2, peer pressure will happen with exposure. Whether you realize it or not. Whether it "feels" right or not. Peer pressure will happen.

Affairs are addictions, and people don't want to parade their vices in the light. Think of a crack house. Do you think that it would still be operational if they tore down the wall facing the street and installed a big picture window?

Irregardless of whether Joe Blow ever frequented that crack house before, once that big picture window is there for all to see inside, he's not going to have the same comfort zone afterward, is he?


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BlindSighted, I believe that is true of some people... but I'm looking at the people that are involved in this... birds of a feather flock together. I've already had his own mother actually not just 'condone' his behavior but actually advocate for it... and my mother, and all of our friends, refuse to say to his face, what they say about me to my face.

I'm worried that her friends are the kinds of people who will call the 'authorities' on me and say that I'm 'emotionally unstable' for contacting strangers out of the blue... my kids don't need the police showing up here at 2am because they got a report that I'm 'suicidal'... and that is exactly the kinds of 'dregs of society' she is...

Adding to that is the fact that my husband is very easily influenced and very prone to suggestion... all it took for this woman to plant a grow a seed in his mind that he had an unhappy home life was a little flirting and the 'seemingly' off the cuff remark about how 'other people' (not her) say what an unhappy home life he has.

I do not want to end up recruiting for his team, even more people who are going to get 'in his ear' and back him up saying "Yea, your wife is a crazy psycho, you're right to leave her."

Especially since the friends I am tight with have already refused to be Jiminy Cricket on the other shoulder, balancing out those evil thoughts...

That said, I'm going to do a targeted exposure. Last night, I found his grandfather's phone number online and I'm going to try to call him today. I think he might have enough influence over my husband to get him to stop this affair immediately.

And I am going to expose to the key people who I think will be on MY side, but not to anyone that I might inadvertently add to "Team WS"...

...and definitely to his job. Though I am thinking that the exposure to his job is going to be coming from someone other than me... a former employee perhaps.

I'm still going to take the weekend to think about it, and it's nice out today, so I'm hoping tomorrow it will be warm enough for me to get out on the kayak for a few hours so I can think.



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Don't go for tricke exposure. Do is once, do it right. First you select who to expose to, then you expose to all at the same time, within an hour or so. Your situation is not different from other betrayed spouses, your exposure doesn't require a different approach.

If you call his grandfather first and in a few days expose at his workspace and the rest of your list in a few days, you will regret it afterwards. It will give WH the time to put up his defenses and spin the story, so that you look like a raving lunatic. That will undermine your exposure.

You don't contact strangers out of the blue, you inform them your marriage is threatened by this horrible affair.

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Who on OW's side are you exposing to?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
BlindSighted, I believe that is true of some people... but I'm looking at the people that are involved in this... birds of a feather flock together. I've already had his own mother actually not just 'condone' his behavior but actually advocate for it... and my mother, and all of our friends, refuse to say to his face, what they say about me to my face.
We all had people who we (shouldn't have) kept in our lives and who were not healthy for us. After the trauma, most of us no longer have those people in our lives. This really has nothing to do with exposure.

Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
I'm worried that her friends are the kinds of people who will call the 'authorities' on me and say that I'm 'emotionally unstable' for contacting strangers out of the blue... my kids don't need the police showing up here at 2am because they got a report that I'm 'suicidal'... and that is exactly the kinds of 'dregs of society' she is...
Oh puleeze, are her friends really going to be willing to make false 911 calls? And if they are, so what? Someone called the police on me because I was crying in our way back yard after D-Day #1, the cops came, they cared about me, I explained what had happened, and they left. Are you afraid for the cops to come to your home?

Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
Adding to that is the fact that my husband is very easily influenced and very prone to suggestion... all it took for this woman to plant a grow a seed in his mind that he had an unhappy home life was a little flirting and the 'seemingly' off the cuff remark about how 'other people' (not her) say what an unhappy home life he has.
Yes. The same as all of our wayward spouses. I posted pages back FL2 that this is not some "special" or unique situation. Every wayward follows the same script. Your husband didn't have boundaries up to protect the marriage. All it took for any of us was the right person to meet the right emotional needs. There is nothing different about your scenario. We all know that it hurts horribly (have you read any of our threads? we all said the same things!), but focusing on that hurt is paralyzing you. We need to get you to TAKE ACTION.

Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
I do not want to end up recruiting for his team, even more people who are going to get 'in his ear' and back him up saying "Yea, your wife is a crazy psycho, you're right to leave her."
We HOPE that he/she WILL say that and lots more. We HOPE to majorly disrupt their affair! Are you WANTING to end this affair?

Or are you wanting to stay status quo? If that's the case, please let us know, but also please realize that you are prolonging the hurt that you are going through while you wait. frown


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Originally Posted by FL2BoysMom
That said, I'm going to do a targeted exposure. Last night, I found his grandfather's phone number online and I'm going to try to call him today. I think he might have enough influence over my husband to get him to stop this affair immediately.

And I am going to expose to the key people who I think will be on MY side, but not to anyone that I might inadvertently add to "Team WS"...

...and definitely to his job. Though I am thinking that the exposure to his job is going to be coming from someone other than me... a former employee perhaps.
It's called trickle exposure, and it won't work.

Your husband's affair is ENMESHED. It is LONG TERM. He has a long history of GASLIGHTING you and you have a long history of accepting his non-sensical lies (not a cut down, I did it too).

Taking a little squirt gun to this fight is NOT going to do anything but poke at the bear. Nooo

You need to EXPOSE to everyone and then we'll prepare you to go straight to Plan B within a couple of days afterwards, in which case you are going to need to be the strongest you can be mentally for a few days while (HOPEFULLY) your husband is very angry about your excellent exposure!

So yes, go kayaking and clear your mind. That is a good choice. But then come back here on Monday with a full exposure list AND a letter to both sides, his and hers for our critique. PLEASE do not make your situation worse by attempting a trickle exposure.


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It has nothing to do with having those people not in our lives anymore. It has everything to do with the fact that even the people that I believe to have good morals, just don't care. So strangers won't either.

And yes, it IS contacting strangers.

And yes, making false 9-1-1 calls and false CPS reports is very, very common with people from this kind of background. And cops showing up at 2-4 am is NOT something my kids need to see. Nor do I need CPS banging down my door, demanding I let them into my home.

I do not want to add any more people to the "Your wife is a crazy psycho" team.

I don't hope either of them will say that but more, I don't hope I add anyone else to his roster of people saying... there are already enough of them.

Yes, I want the affair to end. But only because I want him to come home to us... and I don't believe that destroying his life and placing a sexual harassment termination on his employment history is the right way to get him home, nor is it going to be any good for our financial future anyway.

Most of the things I've heard here so far are based on a lot of things that simply aren't accurate, for instance "You'll get spousal support," actually, that's going to be very hard for me to get because we've only been married 6 years, and in Florida, alimony is very difficult to get... at best I'd get maybe $250 per month for 6 months. The comment about me 'needing' to get child support from the kids bio father... the answer to that is absolutely not. He is a bad, bad guy and I do not want him in the children's lives at all (No, he's not my first husband, the good guy, he was the guy in between the two husbands.) He is not listed as the father on either boys' birth certificates and has no established legal rights... trying to get child support from him would establish those legal rights for him and that is not something that I am willing to do. Ever. Under any circumstances. He is a dangerous man, but without any 'proof' of that, no court in this state will deny him the right to see the kids, which he would get if he had parental rights...

I'm not legally ignorant. I've already spoken to lawyers and have even been advised that getting him fired would completely screw any chance I have at any alimony.

I believe my best chance at reconciliation is through intervention and/or making some kind of deal with him where I will give him what he wants if he will do one thing for me and that is go to a marriage saving workshop or coaching program.

After that, I will see to it that the OW is exposed to the company but the last thing in the world I'm going to do right now is create a situation in which he sees her as a victim he needs to protect because his 'meanie head wife' got her fired.

I do not believe that exposing him is even going to result in getting him 'shamed' enough to end the affair and come home, in fact, I don't believe that anyone is going to shame him at all. I think I will come out looking like the bad guy in all this.

Peer pressure is effective but you have to have the peers on YOUR side for their effect to have the effect you want it to have.

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Lawyers no nothing about killing affairs. They are motivated to make their job easy "divorce" so they do as little as possible.

Traditionally it is the wives that get CPS involved, file false PD reports to get RO.

Alimony is based on what you WH's past history to earn. So he gets fired he will not be let off the hook financially. He has the skill set to earn the money he is making he will get another job for the same money.

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This is not a blog. We have given you our advise
- tell everyone the truth. There is no law against the truth.

If you are not interested in Marriage Builders, you don't need to continue posting.

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