Thanks, I'll get the book and read the other articles etc. I don't think she'd deny that the best thing for our kids is a great marriage, but I like that approach in helping her to "want to" prioritize more time for undivided attention because I don't think she currently thinks of it that way...she thinks it's stealing time from them when really it's giving to them for us to have a great marriage...that might help her "want to" since she'd see it more then as FOR the kids versus against them. I really think that might resonate with her deeply.

On our retreat last weekend she did read a chapter in a book that I picked out called "falling in love again" which she took lots of notes and made a copy of some verses etc and we prayed that we'd be able to fall more in love again...she mentioned "like we were before the first 12 years...so I think we both get the falling in love again in terms of a concept, it's the time, the how, the priority part that we need to work on together.

You tell MelodyLane not to post to you and then turn around and thank her for her post.

Do you realize it's the same person?

Maybe MelodyLane has something good for you to read in the posts you are upset about. Around here it is usually the posts people don't want to hear that are the most important for them to listen to.

**EDIT**

moderators note, this is our last warning. Be respectful to other posters or we will lock this thread.

Right, I'm not paying attention to who says what, because I'm not trying to judge by keeping track of the advisors status etc. so at least I guess that means I'm objective about reading and considering each posters willingness to try to help. But I do agree sometimes the hardest stuff to hear is the most beneficial stuff. As an executive coach for 20 years I often find that true...but sometimes advisors get so used to advising on the same things over and over they jump to false assumptive conclusions, I've been guilty of that too and can't believe that what the person is telling me could possibly be true, then it turns out, they were the one who was right...I've seen it and lived it both ways.

Okay, start paying attention, because nobody knows Marriage Builders better than MelodyLane - she's like our Chuck Norris. The only way you could do better is to talk to Dr. Harley himself.

If there's something you don't want to hear it is probably very important for you to hear it!! If something upsets you, do some relaxation exercises and then think about what was said to you because I guarantee it is important.

Why don't we get you back to focusing on Marriage Builders - have you read this yet?

Prisca has asked this twice. If the answer is "no," then get the book. You need to live with it and learn it!

Yes, we have not reached the 15 hour mark, but she would say the demanding, disrecpectful, angry approach is not our way of life, either of us. I have to figure out how to help her want to spend the 15 hours or 20 hours without her feeling like it's a burden instead of a good thing, but a blessing. She does enjoy the time we spend together and wouldn't want to NOT spend that time, that she has made clear, sometimes we reach the 15 hour mark but more rare than consistent, almost more by accident because the kids were at camp that week or something else freed up the time for us versus we committed and made it happen.

If you want to figure out how to get your wife to want to spend 15-20 hours with you, then I suggest you do every thing I mentioned in that post, starting with the suggestion Steve Harley made to me.

I get the idea you quickly responded but didn't read my whole post and that nothing on it made it into your todo list. Am I right?

My wife didn't want to spend ANY time with me when I got here, and now she would not live without 15+ hours of my undivided attention each week. I can help you learn how to do this but not if your todo list doesn't grow when you read my posts.

Take out your todo list.

Cross "telling people which posts I appreciated and which I did not appreciate" off of your todo list.

Read through your thread again from the beginning to the end and make a note of each thing you were advised to do, even if you don't think you can do it yet (or ever).

Then post that list here.

No I've not read the full book...only about lovebusters online. If it's about the following then I'm on track but I need to get the full book:
Selfish Demands,
Disrespectful Judgments,
Angry Outbursts,
Dishonesty,
Annoying Habits,
and Independent Behavior

We talked about these topics on our retreat and the only one she felt was an issue was Annoying Habits...which she identified as not brushing teeth enough, not wiping face sometimes when food gets on there to name a couple which I was glad to have idenfitifed as she's never complained about that stuff but now that she did it was an easy and quick fix for me to change it...longer term will tell if it's stopped being a habit, but initial effort has been made. Again, this might be one where if she really thinks more about it, there are more going on than she identified, and me too if I think longer about it so I need to get the book to get more in depth.

OK, good advice, sorry to not realize she was Chuck Norris...I'll pay more attention and try to be more balanced in reacting to things I disagree with her about.

Yes, get the book - and trust us when we tell you you have a problem making disrespectful judgments you are unaware of. It is important to learn to identify these and to eliminate them entirely.

The book will help and so will the daily radio show.

Good homework, let me do that...getting late tonight and I'm eating from the firehose, but good stuff. I have a big project due tomorrow but will have more time to zero in on it all this weekend as she is going to see our newborn niece on a mommy daughter get away this weekend. I think the recap would be good for me to sum it all up in one place, I feel like I'm trying to have 8 conversations at once right now, this will connect dots, even if I don't like the dots, so I can comprehend it in one place. Thanks!

Yeah, I think that must be a blind spot for me because you guys are all seeing it, and she isn't and doesn't "state" she feels disrespected (we had an entire convo topic around respect to probe the issue) but that doesn't mean she isn't FEELING disrespected by me or my behavior or judgements...again it may be a blind spot for both of us, the book sounds like it will help.

It may just be that she's used to it and comfortable with it. You guys certainly like each other, it's just lacking passion.

I'm not saying you're doing it at all (I'm not there) but as two professionals, your communication and disrespectful judgments may be wrapped up in a kind of non-intimate business-like communication style. It doesn't bother her - because she's a business thinker herself, but it's still not totally intimate either.

4 kids and professional careers - MAYBE there's efficiencies in such styles which on one hand are appreciated - but still devoid of making her feeling cherished and admired.

Lovebusters is a very good read.

I'm encouraged (and think you should be too) that your wife expressed the desire to be in love "like you were 12 years ago". If you did it once - you can do it again. There's something about looking at your wife and not seeing that love reflected back (like you always did before) that makes a husband panic. Don't panic. Get better tools and be the man and husband God designed you to be and lead your marriage. She loves and respects you....trust Him - she will follow your lead.


Part of the pitch to your wife is that you two need to model to the children what a loving marriage of extraordinary care looks like, so that they can better identify the person they, themselves, marry and have their own, like, loving marriage of extraordinary care. It's the most important life skill you can teach them. It can pay dividends for generations. It's your (both of you ...as one flesh) legacy.


On a personal note - My wife and I are not homeschoolers but there are and have been lots of them here. MelodyLane and her husband are very good friends with my wife and I too, in real life. They chat on facebook incessantly. Her point about the girl's weekend trip was spot on but some background on that may help. Dr. Harley doesn't think married couples should ever spend the night apart and his studies of the most successful loving marriages indicate a strong statistical correlation supporting that concept. Even when Dr. Harley's wife goes to a women's conference or retreat (like a women's weekend at church) - he goes with her and just stays at the hotel. If he travels for work, she comes with him or he flies back the same day. Melodylane was pointing out the irrationality of your upset that your wife isn't seemingly in love with you and you FEELING that encouraging her to go away without you for a weekend (to get away from the stress of family - including you) would make things better.

Feelings lie. It's secularism - where society tells us the key to happiness is living independently and obligation-free (go on solo trips, take up independent hobbies, find your own friends). Society is wrong. The key to happiness, success and having a extraordinary marriage is living interdependently and, when the going gets tough, drawing together as a couple and as a family.

Put another way (with lots of hyperbole) - you two are "one flesh" - would you cut off your arm and send it on vacation????

Hyperbole aside, it always remains your life here. Many years ago, my wife and I poja'ed (policy of joint agreement) her going with a very trusted Christian girlfriend of ours from here (who stood in our wedding) to my sister-in-law (to be...at that time) bachelorette get away weekend to an all inclusive in Mexico. It was during the school year so I stayed home with our daughter and looked after her and worked. It wasn't ideal and I'm not telling you this to encourage that kind of behavior (shortcuts are bad) but nobody yelled at us or got mad at us. It should be noted that we approached the mutual decision with a much different viewpoint than we ever did before. Without MB, I surely would have been sending her off thrilled she was off having fun. She works hard and she deserved it. After MB it became a much more significant and difficult decision.

Great post.

Thanks for the posts, I'm just chiming in to say I'm still reading up and processing what's already been posted. I've been examining disrespectful judgments. I've not done my homework yet of summarizing my to do list as time is at a premium right now taking care of the three boys alone this weekend, and out of visitors as well...but should be able to get to that this week sometime.

UPDATE: Some good news, before she left for the weekend trip she asked if I wanted her to read the book HNHN and I said I thought it would help us...and especially the UA section and asked what she thought about getting another 5-10 hrs UA a week so she took it with her. She said she didn't feel like we needed any more UA than the avg 10 per week we already consistent achieve (of course) and that she didn't know where the time would come from but that it did make sense we used to spend that and more when dating, 1st married and before we had 4 kids. YAY, at least she is open to looking into it!!!! She did qualify however that the time back then was because we needed to get to know each other, and 24 years later we don't need that as much. To which I replied, "maybe not to get to know each other as much, but there is still more to get to know, and the "we don't need it as much" might surprise us if we were to actually do it!"

I believe her recent blow up at me over nothing and having me share candidly with her that it just didn't make sense to me for two people in love to behave that way has caused her some real soul searching. One text she sent me today said "I Love You" first, without me saying it first (which made it feel to me in the past like it was just a conditioned response rather than genuine), for the past 7 years she has not said it first almost ever, only when I say it first. I don't think she knew how much we both needed to "fall in love" again.

One question, as I read more about Disrespectful Judgments, a couple folks stated I've made several in my thread. It's new to me, so could somebody cut and paste mine so I can understand them more directly? I'm still not seeing them, and maybe it's a lack of context?

Regarding my negative reaction to MelodyLane I'd like to apologize to her. After some soak time I can see she was trying to "jolt" me into paying attention. I was taking in a lot of critique from several angles all at once in one day and felt like she was disrespectfully telling me to be more respectful which I took the similar way I do when a Manager on our team tells their staff "Sorry I have not had time to get your performance review done and it's six months late, but let's get started...the reason we cannot recommend you for promotion or any raise is you have some punctuality issues, you need to make sure you are on time for stuff, it's very important and sends the wrong message to the entire team when you are late!" I advise them that will kill your credibility as a coach on that issue and about everything else immediately, however I also see where at times a strong accusation even if it's exaggerated and not true, or assumptive to make a point, can be a useful tool to "jolt" somebody out of the way of thinking that's keeping them in harm's way.

So, I'm sure she has deleted me from her friends list, but now that I've had some soak time to absorb and process I just wanted to apologize to ML and thank her for helping to jolt me onto another track for my (and our marriage's) own good. Thank you MelJoltlyLane :=)I do appreciate what you are trying to do to help those of us who need to realize what we are doing is not effective and thus we need to change.

TO DO List:
Embark on an educational process and learn 1st and subsequently sell her on the MB program (including the benefits of our 4 kids seeing their parents in a vibrant, passionate, fully committed marriage relationship)

Request more UA time, commit to and plan (focus on fun for her) four 4 hour dates per week and sell her on the concept of a romantic and integrated passionate marriage that all starts with this step. Also read the articles and the Policy on UA do the worksheet together on Sundays at 3:30.

Read Lovebusters (beyond what I've read online, get/read the book)

Stop talking, start doing by meeting her Emotional Needs

Make Love Bank Deposits and stop making DJ's

Did I Miss Anything Markos?