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Hello, first time posting and my first time on any forum. Sooner or later I'll get all the shortcuts. As always it's a long story but I hope so one here can point me in the right direction. 2 years ago I had an affair with a co-worker. I ended up having to tell my wife about it because of a possible std passed on to her. That was 2 years ago. Needless to say I destroyed her. my affair ended, of the way it's listed here but I did manage to get a transfer to a different division 100 miles away from my former AP. At the time that satisfied my wife. Since then there have been many sleepless nights and she has told me several times that there is no way in hell that she would ever forgive me. For a while we had some online marriage counseling, she refuses to see a counselor in person since we would have to leave our kids with a baby sitter which she opposes. We quit the counseling after 2 months because she said it didn't help her. Since then we have had many sleepless nights discussing my affair and the reasons for it. I think one of the biggest problems she has is that she is convinced that the affair occurred because I found the OW to be more sexually attractive the she is. No matter how much I tell her this was not the case she says she doesn't believe me. We seem to go in huge circles every time we talk about it with absolutely no progress. The topic is almost off limits now just because I think at times we are both exhausted about it. In the beginning after I told her it was a horrible roller coaster of emotions, then for about a year she would just kind of attack me about the affair since everywhere she would go there would be some reminder of the horrible things I did to her. She has had to take some anti-depressants and lately they seem to be helping her a bit and we can now have a civil conversation w/o mention of the affair. I am desperate to start to heal our marriage and open my wife's heart again. I know that it would take a ton of effort but I will never give up as long as she does not send me divorce papers. We have a wonderful family together, with two great kids. I know my wife needs to not feel horrible pain anymore and so how I need to make her feel safe again but every time I ask her what I can do she replies that there is nothing I can do, there is nothing I have to offer her that she wants. And nothing I ever will do for her will make her feel secure again. She says she stopped thinking about the future and she lives day to day. How can I change her mind? How can we heal?

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Was the OW married? Who all knows of your affair? Does any of your family know? How old are your kids?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Please tell us what has been done from this list.


From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thanks for answering.

The OW was not married

None of my family is aware.

Our kids are 5 years old and 3

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Please tell us what has been done from this list.


From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Let us know what has been done on this list to help recover and affair proof your marriage.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I have answered each below:


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
Yes I have answered each of my wife's questions honestly.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
Yes I have made this commitment. I have not spoken to her since Aug 2014.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
I have not done this. At this point I'm not sure how much it would help but it could be worth discussing with my wife to see if and what she would approve of. Not sure my AP even lives in the same place. Fairly certain she still works in the same place.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
I do this as much as possible. I always make her aware of my whereabouts. I call every day on my way home from work and account for my time.

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
She never had my email, though she did have my phone #. I've never been on social media. My wife has full access to my phone and computer.

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
Yes. I account for my time and my wife has my daily schedule one month in advance.

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
Yes. I provided her with this information.


_____Spend leisure time together.
Yes we do this. If I'm not working we are always together as a family.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
We relocated but I still work for the same company in a different division.

_____Avoid overnight separation.
I spend 2 nights away from her every year for a yearly confrence I attend for work. But any other separation is avoided as much as possible.

_____Allow technical accountability.
Not sure what you mean by this

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
My wife's sister and her husband are aware. Her sister is her only close family memeber.
None of my family is aware, my best friend is aware and I informed my supervisor last year.

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Read this and listen to the radio clips in here.
What is Just Compensation?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also, would your wife come here and post to us? What are her complaints about you?

How much undivided attention do you get a week?

Do you interact with the OW at work?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi Never, welcome to Marriage Builders. Most marriages do not recover from affairs. They end up in a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage if they don't have a plan for recovery. Our plan changes all that by a) affair proofing the marriage and b) creating romantic love. When that happens the betrayed spouse doesn't build resentment and you are left with a happy marriage.

It doesn't seem like the reasons that led to the affair have been addressed. Have you addressed and corrected them? Another glaring fact is that the OW is free to reach you again. That has to scare your wife to death. The OW can call you and email you at work. You can probably call her from a desk phone at work too. It is no surprise that your wife has not recovered.

The second step is to create a romantic, happy, integrated marriage. That is achieved by spending 15-20 hours per week out on DATES meeting the intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. The objective is to create a marriage that was much better than what you had before.

You can do this in several ways:

1. on your own using the books Surviving an Affair and workbook Five Steps to Romantic Love. You can get help from us on the forum [many of us have been through the professional program] and the free radio show as guidance. If you get stuck you can email Dr Harley at his radio show and he will help you for free

2. the online professional program where they assign you a coach and guide you through the program over a years time. Your coach contacts you weekly and gives you the lessons. Dr Harley supervises your progress and you have daily access to him on the private forum. This option is $1000 and they give the whole set of books.

The plan for surviving an affair is outlined here: How to Survive Infidelity


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I will see if she is interested in joining us. Lately every time I mention anything about doing things such as going out on dates with me she tells me she has better things to do. But I will ask her and see if she is receptive to the idea.

As far as undivided attention we get very little. We still have sex a few times a week and that's about all that we get.

I do not interact with the OW at work. She is not in the same building as me. We are separated by about 100mi. Even though this is the case as melodylane mentioned she could theoretically still contact me in a way that my wife would have no way of knowing. I should mention that I did tell the OW that I could never again see or speak to her, of course my wife probabaly has issues with this because like every other affair all my words and actions were wrapped up in lies and understandably she does not trust me. But for what it's worth I did end the affair.

Last edited by Neversaynever11; 11/27/16 04:24 PM.
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Do you have them book Surving an Affair? I would et another job.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Melody, you're right that the OW could theoretically still contact me. In fact my wife has mentioned on several occasions when we argued that I should just go ahead and call OW and tell her my problems instead. I did at one time discuss with my wife the possibility that I could leave my job in order to bring more peace of mind for her but she said that it wouldn't help her. she said she read about people like me on the internet and it would just happen again anyway. Our old online therapist was also against this since she said that our trust has been eroded away so much that switching jobs would likely be a waste of time. I am however willing to take this drastic step if it may ease some of my wife's suffering.

I attempted to go out on a date with my wife and she told me that she did not want to do that. But that was before she started taking a new anti depressant. The new meds seemed to have calmed her down a bit. Maybe there is a chance she would be open to it. In any case the last time I asked she said that if I took her out she would not speak to me about anything other then the affair and how I destroyed her and she did not have anything to talk to me about. This has left me in a bit of a bind since I know there is no way we can start to heal unless I make love deposits, and to do that I need undivided attention then we meet each other's needs and everything starts down the road to happy. Just seems like I'm a bit stuck at the moment.

I will buy the books asap.

Thanks!

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Oh boy, it sounds like you need a lot of help because this is going to end badly unless you can persuade your wife to get on board. No marriage can last that endures perpetual punishment. If I were you, I would email Dr Harley at the radio show and see if you can enlist his help in persuading your wife to go through this program.

Your problem is not the program, but that your wife is completely checked out. If she can be persuaded to go through this program, it would dramatically improve her quality of life. She has to be absolutely miserable.

Would you be willing to email Dr Harley and speak to him? He might be able to help you persuade her. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks for the advice. I emailed him. Hopefully he's able to give some good suggestions.

I could tell my wife had sort of checked out for a while. A few months ago around the time she said that she didn't want to go on a date she said that she was tired of feeling like she was being consumed by thoughts of the affair. She told me that it was the first things she thought of when she wakes up and it would eat her up all day. Before she started taking anti depressants she wouldnt say more then 2 sentences to me all day. Now we can somewhat carry on a conversation. I can even get her to laugh or smile which makes me very happy. If it goes back to the same way it was I don't know what I will do. I used to wonder if I was causing her more pain just by being around. I don't want to go back to that, I'm very hopeful that we can make some progress. I remember reading on the website that the anger and resentment will fade in time. I told myself every day that my wife can't stay mad forever, if I just withstand the barrage of insults and silent treatment one day she will open up. Don't get the wrong idea I don't think I'm being abused or I don't deserve to pay for what I did but I'm very hopeful that I may be able to turn things around.

Last edited by Neversaynever11; 11/27/16 11:31 PM.
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Is there anyway you could persuade her to post to us? Will she listen to the radio clips that we've posted here? Dr. Harley has such a fantastic way of explaining things, that I think if she hears it from him it might help her.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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15 hours a week, at least, talking with her intimately, listening to her feelings with compassion, will help her with her recovery.

Be patient, steady , and strong.

If OW works with you, quit your job.


Married 31 years, 5 kids, 4 GK



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Originally Posted by Neversaynever11
I remember reading on the website that the anger and resentment will fade in time.

That is only true if something better replaces the bad marriage. If the present is not happy, the mind tends to wander to the past. If there is no plan to create a happy marriage, the resentment tends to grow over the years.

Quote
I told myself every day that my wife can't stay mad forever, if I just withstand the barrage of insults and silent treatment one day she will open up. Don't get the wrong idea I don't think I'm being abused or I don't deserve to pay for what I did but I'm very hopeful that I may be able to turn things around.

That is ABUSE, and no, you do not deserve to be treated like that. Dr Harley would tell you not to put up with that mistreatment. I am glad you have reached out to him.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
Our kids are 5 years old and 3
Family commitment time can be used to break the ice with a wife who absolutely refuses to go on dates with you. Invite her on a family date, doing something she absolutely loves to do with the kids. You can use this time to start enjoyable conversations with her, and to be as affectionate as she will let you. Don't talk about your relationship.

Later, plan some dates for just you and her. Plan something you know she loves to do. Expect to be rejected a LOT, but keep planning and inviting.

If this gets to be too hard on you emotionally, see your doctor about short-term antidepressants. They will get you through the highs and lows long enough to make an impact.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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Thank you for the advice it will keep asking her out. We alrelredy spend good quality time together as a family. I can tell my wife is able to forget when we are out having fun as a family.

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I appreciate your sympathy for my situation. I once brought up to my wife that when the attacks occur it hurts me very badly but she responded that it pales in comparison to what I have put her through. I have no defense against this argument, I am left only with two choices. Walk away or accept that she will be angry and absorb the insult. Also I have read many of the other postings on this forum, specifically about unfaithful spouses and the "fogbabble" or other silly things people say in the middle of attempting to recover. I read those postings from other people who have been hurt and I can sense the pain caused to them. I know that I derserve to be punished for what I have done. My last therapist said that in order to reach recovery I must be able to empathize with the pain that I have caused my wife. My wife has echoed this sentiment and has told me that the only way she would ever be able to reach a state of recovery is if I myself experienced the same kind of pain she has endured since she discovered the affair. Naturally I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have to believe that somehow I will be able to find some way that I can build some love deposits. I know that I am alone in this fight to find out how it is that I can do that so I really appreciate everybody who is trying to help me here.

Last edited by Neversaynever11; 11/28/16 09:50 PM.
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