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Originally Posted By: Prisca
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If it's just hypothetical, he will move heaven and earth for me. Hahaha

You'll need to stop the disrespectful judgments if you want him to get on board. They are a lovebuster.


Agreed. That is a problem I have, in all seriousness. But to be fair, he has admitted this and sometimes even jokes about it. For example,

Me: Will you take the trash to the curb?
H: Are we talking hypothetically, at a time yet to be determined, or like, for real right now?


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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Is there anything you would like help with? Or are you just here to argue?


Why can't it be both? grin

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, it really doesn't make sense to me.

4 hour date nights per week--- hmmmmm. There's exactly 4 hours from when he gets home from work to when he wants to be in bed to get 8 hours of sleep. Leaving my kids on their own twice a week on school nights is not going to happen. Additionally, my kids get out of school at 4, and often don't even have their homework done by 5. How would that work?? I would love to hear (specifically) how others with young children do that. (we have zero family in the area, fyi)


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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown

It's hard with him, because in THEORY he will agree to anything. If it's all hypothetical, he's the easiest going guy around. In fact, that's one of the biggest issues we have with the faith/no faith issue. When we sit down and talk about it, he says I DO want to be religious, I DO want to take the kids to church and teach them about God. But then every sunday it's a battle.


So you are married to a pleaser. They are far harder to negotiate with because they always want to agree. You have to make negotiating more fun. Tell him that he can revisit an agreement at any time but that Sunday battles make you miserable, you need a negotiation ahead of time so that there is no surprise.

Important to keep throwing out ideas until you settle on something that works 100% for both of you. You will be amazed, the solution when it comes will be far better than anything you thought of alone.


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Quote:
But to be fair, he has admitted this and sometimes even jokes about it.

It doesn't matter. When you say it, it is a disrespectful judgement and you withdraw love units from his lovebank. He will be less motivated to change anything for you.


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Quote:
I would love to hear (specifically) how others with young children do that.

Scheduling.
You start by scheduling UA.
Then you schedule Family Commitment time.
Then you schedule everything else.

We can't make the schedule for you. You will have to do that yourself -- you and your husband.

You do this every week, together. Dr. Harley suggests Sunday afternoon.


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I must agree with Prisca that it can be done. It seems impossible when you have a 15 year habit of not putting your marriage first. Hey, one of my kids is disabled and still in diapers at school age - childcare is not quite easy, yet, you make a habit of priorities. I see your youngest is 5 and your oldest is old enough to babysit!

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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
I would love to hear (specifically) how others with young children do that.

Scheduling.
You start by scheduling UA.
Then you schedule Family Commitment time.
Then you schedule everything else.

We can't make the schedule for you. You will have to do that yourself -- you and your husband.

You do this every week, together. Dr. Harley suggests Sunday afternoon.


I was asking about other people's schedule, not mine.

And Dr. H says 2-3 hours per day, not 4 4-hour dates.


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Originally Posted By: alis
I must agree with Prisca that it can be done. It seems impossible when you have a 15 year habit of not putting your marriage first. Hey, one of my kids is disabled and still in diapers at school age - childcare is not quite easy, yet, you make a habit of priorities. I see your youngest is 5 and your oldest is old enough to babysit!


Youngest is 3.

Then tell me how it's done. We do have my oldest babysit for our dates on the weekends. School nights are a different beast.


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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown
Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
I would love to hear (specifically) how others with young children do that.

Scheduling.
You start by scheduling UA.
Then you schedule Family Commitment time.
Then you schedule everything else.

We can't make the schedule for you. You will have to do that yourself -- you and your husband.

You do this every week, together. Dr. Harley suggests Sunday afternoon.


I was asking about other people's schedule, not mine.

And Dr. H says 2-3 hours per day, not 4 4-hour dates.


No, he has recommended 4 - 4 hour dates for years. He suggests sitting down every Sunday afternoon and planning out your schedule using this worksheet: UA worksheet

Just a suggestion, I would lose the snotty attitude. People don't have to help you here. You have some of the absolute best posters taking their own person time to help you. Prisca, for example, has 8 children, a happy marriage and has been in the program for years. She has been through Dr Harley's program and listened to hundreds of hours of his radio show. If I were in your shoes, I would want her and alis helping me because they are experienced and are educated in the MB program. If you are serious about improving your marriage, you might want to avoid running them off.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown


And Dr. H says 2-3 hours per day, not 4 4-hour dates.


The Four Rules
for a Successful Marriage
The Rule of Time:

Take Time to Give Your Spouse Your Undivided Attention

The Rule of Time unlocks the door to the other three rules. Without time you will not be able to meet each other's emotional needs nor will you be able to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness. Time is also a basic requirement for honesty. Time for undivided attention is the necessary ingredient for everything that's important in marriage.

And yet, as soon as most couples marry, and especially when children arrive, couples usually replace their time together with activities of lesser importance. You probably did the same thing. You tried to meet each other's needs with time "left over," but sadly, there wasn't much time left over. Your lack of private time together may have become a great cause of unhappiness, and yet you felt incapable of preventing it. You may have also found yourself bottling up your honest expression of feelings because there was just no appropriate time to talk.

Schedule your time to be alone with each other as your highest priority -- that way it will never be replaced by activities of lesser value. Your career, your time with your children, maintenance of your home, and a host of other demands will all compete for your time together. But if you follow the Rule of Time, you will not let anything steal from those precious and crucial hours together.

I suggest that you (a) spend time away from children and friends whenever you give each other your undivided attention; (b) use the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship,and sexual fulfillment; and (c) schedule at least fifteen hours together each week. When you were dating, you gave each other this kind of attention and you fell in love. When people have affairs, they also give each other this kind of attention to keep their love for each other alive. Why should courtship and affairs be the only times love is created? Why can't it happen in marriage as well? It can, if you set aside time every week to give each other undivided attention.

One of the best ways to give each other the undivided attention that you gave when you were dating is to go back to dating again. Four 4-hour dates a week would just about guarantee the building of Love Bank balances that you created during courtship. Use each 4-hour date to be affectionate, talk intimately to each other, do something fun together, and make love. It's the formula for every romantic relationship.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown


Youngest is 3.

Then tell me how it's done. We do have my oldest babysit for our dates on the weekends. School nights are a different beast.

You hire a babysitter that is capable of supervising homework and all of the other stuff that goes with school nights.
When we started we were barely making ends meet. We have no family. I've still not found anyone to trade or co-op babysitting with, all our friends DO have family mostly TWO sets of grandparents fighting to give free babysitting. There was no money for a babysitter. I was so frustrated with trying to figure out how to have a babysitter let alone pay for other date activities. But kept analyzing and changing things up.
Now the schedule and life has changed to accommodate two regular date nights. Still working on a regular third date a week.

And if he only has 4 hrs you go out for 3 hrs, come home and have sex and go to bed. Total of 4 hrs. And then make your weekend dates 4 hrs out plus the intimacy at home.

Last edited by buildsherhouse; 12/19/16 10:24 PM.

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PS. We never really dated before marriage either. Arranged marriage basically. So you learn to be a great date partner and learn to have fun. Put effort into looking nice and finding out what you like to do together, what you like to talk about (kids and faith off limits during dates), where you like to go.


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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown
Originally Posted By: markos

I think the real problem here is you have a husband who isn't on board, and you are trying to figure all this out for him when it is really his job to figure it out, and if he doesn't, you're not going to be happy and your marriage is not going to work.

I didn't see an answer to this question I asked:
Originally Posted By: markos

Right, MB solves this with the policy of joint agreement which in this case would require that your husband not engage in this behavior because you are not enthusiastic about it.

Is your husband on board with doing the program, including the policy of joint agreement?


It's hard with him, because in THEORY he will agree to anything. If it's all hypothetical, he's the easiest going guy around. In fact, that's one of the biggest issues we have with the faith/no faith issue. When we sit down and talk about it, he says I DO want to be religious, I DO want to take the kids to church and teach them about God. But then every sunday it's a battle. He has a new reason he wants to stay home (I have the sniffles, i didnt get enough sleep, our toddler will misbehave, Ill just keep him home-- seriously he never runs out of reasons) or he will leave in the middle of church and go sit in the car. He won't tell the kids that he's lost faith, and doesn't want me to tell them either.

The same with most things. If I have a calm conversation with him about media, he's like, yeah I shouldnt be watching it, I don't want my boys to watch this kind of thing, but then when I say something when he IS watching it, it's, "Oh this one scene isn't so bad. You saw her nipples?! I didn't notice!! The rest of the show has been good." Blah blah blah

I think it will be the same with MB. Yesterday he was on board, but then when the kids went to bed, he just walked up to bed alone and watched TV for an hour before going to sleep.

If it's just hypothetical, he will move heaven and earth for me. Hahaha


Okay, you are going to need to get him to agree to some accountability or he is going to drive you nuts.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him this:
"I can't live with you watching these TV shows any more. It just hurts too much. I married you for life, but that was with the expectation that we were going to have a marriage of caring for each other and to me that means never doing anything that hurts each other. If you can't agree to that, then I can't continue to let you hurt me like this."

(Notice that there's nothing in there disrespectful or judgmental. Nothing that says what he is watching is wrong or immoral or whatever - just the fact that it hurts you. It's all about how it makes you feel, because that is THE MOST important issue. That's what's wrong with watching porn: it hurts wives.)

If he doesn't agree to start living this way, you start preparing for a separation. If he does agree but doesn't change anything, you start preparing for a separation. If he agrees and keeps his agreement, then great, you move on to the next issue and start discussing that, until you are both living the whole program, all of it based on the fact that you need him to live this way because it hurts too much if he does not.

Let me assure you that if I were a married woman in your situation that is exactly what I would do. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Prisca is exactly the same way.

But if that seems too strong for you I have two alternative suggestions. The first one is free: contact Dr. Harley at his radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see if he can help you get your husband to agree to stop doing anything you are not enthusiastic about. The second one is paid: sign up for the coaching and accountability program and see if Dr. Harley and his coaches can help get your husband to agree. Either way if your husband doesn't cooperate or doesn't cooperate for long, I would encourage you to start preparing for a separation, because it is better to separate sooner while you are feeling better and still willing to make your marriage work than it is to drag things out until you are so hurt that you cannot stand your husband and never want to see him again.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't intentionally have a snotty attitude, but it does seem like you guys can be a little more extremist than Dr. H himself. For example, I listened to one show where the woman described struggling with the 15 hours of UA and he said it was fine to do them at home after the kids are in bed if you needed to, and encouraged her to get creative. I've seen it said on the boards that that's not acceptable, it must be out of the house and needs to be 4 4-hour dates. If he doesn't want it to be 2-3 hours a day, or if it's so important to do 4 4 hour dates, why isn't that reflected on his online materials, most especially from the MAIN page about the POUA:

Quote:
When I apply the fifteen-hour principle to marriages, I usually recommend that the time be evenly distributed throughout the week, two to three hours each day.


In fact, I've never heard him be as rigid as some of the recommendations here. I find it highly unusual that other parents think that it's so simple to hire a babysitter to handle homework, dinner, AND bedtime for 4 children, especially on a regular basis. Maybe a grandmother, or something, but I babysat for YEARS and never once was asked to do all that, and wouldn't feel comfortable asking that of a sitter.

When I've listened to his show, if someone has an obstacle, he actually seemed empathetic, and acknowledged that some situations do present actual, real obstacles, not everything is an excuse to get out of it.

To be clear, many of these suggestions and feedback have been SUPER helpful and I'm so grateful. Especially seeing how MB principles fit into our specific struggles. Thank you, each one of you, for taking time from your lives to respond. I truly appreciate it!!


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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
PS. We never really dated before marriage either. Arranged marriage basically. So you learn to be a great date partner and learn to have fun. Put effort into looking nice and finding out what you like to do together, what you like to talk about (kids and faith off limits during dates), where you like to go.


Thank you, that gives me hope. And he described this as an arranged marriage yesterday. We have to learn to love each other. Good to know we're not alone.


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I babysat too from age 14-23 and I was always asked to do homework, dinner, bedtime and then clean the house after the kids were in bed. This is why I do not find it unusual to look for a qualified person to do this for me at this point in my life. Of course it costs more than it did years ago. smile senior high schoolers, college students, and older women are often up to the task.
Some of my babysitters are younger and cheaper. I use them when I only expect basic safety care.


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Quote:
In fact, I've never heard him be as rigid as some of the recommendations here.

I have. I've argued with him till I was blue in the face over whether or not UA could be at home (I'm a homebody). It is Dr. Harley who insists that UA be out of the home, not me.

The main reason is because it is near impossible to get husbands to give their wives the attention they need when they are home. It's not going to work, 13years. People try to fudge on this step, over and over again, and it doesn't work. If you have a husband who won't even agree to do the policy of joint agreement, you most definitely cannot cut corners.

If your marriage is going to turn around and become one filled with romance, your husband needs to take you out on dates. That's how it's done. He's not going to do what it takes at home.


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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
I babysat too from age 14-23 and I was always asked to do homework, dinner, bedtime and then clean the house after the kids were in bed. This is why I do not find it unusual to look for a qualified person to do this for me at this point in my life. Of course it costs more than it did years ago. smile senior high schoolers, college students, and older women are often up to the task.
Some of my babysitters are younger and cheaper. I use them when I only expect basic safety care.

I also did babysitting for many years and homework, dinner, bedtime and cleaning were all part of my job.


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Originally Posted By: 13yearsdown
I don't intentionally have a snotty attitude, but it does seem like you guys can be a little more extremist than Dr. H himself. For example, I listened to one show where the woman described struggling with the 15 hours of UA and he said it was fine to do them at home after the kids are in bed if you needed to, and encouraged her to get creative. I've seen it said on the boards that that's not acceptable, it must be out of the house and needs to be 4 4-hour dates. If he doesn't want it to be 2-3 hours a day, or if it's so important to do 4 4 hour dates, why isn't that reflected on his online materials, most especially from the MAIN page about the POUA:


But I showed you a direct quote from Dr Harley about the 4 hours. Did you read it? He also states this on his radio show all the time. He instructed those of us who went through his online program to do this. Most of us posting to you know Dr Harley and have listened to thousands of hours of his radio shows.

Quote:
In fact, I've never heard him be as rigid as some of the recommendations here.


It's because you are not familiar with his works and are grasping onto any loopholes.. We are familiar with his works.

You should also understand that Dr Harley supervises this forum and if a poster gives advice that is contradictory to his, the post is removed by the moderators. So, if you feel you are getting incorrect advice, simply hit "notify" and the moderators will check it to make sure it is correct advice.

Hopefully, you will stop arguing and start listening because you are not going to brawl your way to a happy marriage, let me assure you. Folks will stop posting to you if you don't knock it off. We are all volunteers who have families, careers, busy lives who are just paying it forward. No one has to help you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
I babysat too from age 14-23 and I was always asked to do homework, dinner, bedtime and then clean the house after the kids were in bed. This is why I do not find it unusual to look for a qualified person to do this for me at this point in my life. Of course it costs more than it did years ago. smile senior high schoolers, college students, and older women are often up to the task.
Some of my babysitters are younger and cheaper. I use them when I only expect basic safety care.

I also did babysitting for many years and homework, dinner, bedtime and cleaning were all part of my job.


Wait why did a comment from someone disappear? What was wrong with it?

I will just say that I disagree with this and it has not been my experience either as a babysitter nor as someone who hires babysitters (and chats with other moms about hiring babysitters). If you've got babysitters like that, lucky you!! (for real, not snarky)


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