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Keep looking for babysitters that will do all that then.Or not. Don't expect pity or to get off the hook though. Several of us have been in your shoes and found solutions.it's been one day and a lot of talking. Try to do something about it now.

If you want to know how to get this done, I'm trying to help. If you want to disagree don't reply back.

Ask for recommendations at local churches and mom groups. Especially through churches you find older women who are happy for this kind of work and some extra money. Dual housekeeping-childcare pays 7.50-12 an hour in my area.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
But I showed you a direct quote from Dr Harley about the 4 hours. Did you read it? He also states this on his radio show all the time. He instructed those of us who went through his online program to do this. Most of us posting to you know Dr Harley and have listened to thousands of hours of his radio shows.

I read it and I replied with a quote from the MAIN PAGE of POUA from his website. Literally, if you go to the marriage builders website and you click on BASIC CONCEPTS and then on POLICY OF UNDIVIDED ATTENTION, it says "I suggest" 2-3 hours per day. Is the "I" not Dr. H??

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It's because you are not familiar with his works and are grasping onto any loopholes.. We are familiar with his works.

You should also understand that Dr Harley supervises this forum and if a poster gives advice that is contradictory to his, the post is removed by the moderators. So, if you feel you are getting incorrect advice, simply hit "notify" and the moderators will check it to make sure it is correct advice.

I am not questioning whether you guys are just making stuff up. If you say he's said it, I believe you. My question seems like common sense, if his new position is the end all be all of what he advises and he himself sees this as hard and fast rule, why hasn't he updated his materials to reflect that?

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Hopefully, you will stop arguing and start listening because you are not going to brawl your way to a happy marriage, let me assure you. Folks will stop posting to you if you don't knock it off. We are all volunteers who have families, careers, busy lives who are just paying it forward. No one has to help you.

I am sorry I have come across as an argumentative contrarian, it is not my intention, and I regret making this impression. I am just being honest in my reactions to what you're saying. If I've been rude, I apologize. I sometimes use sarcasm to lighten the mood, but I'm sorry if it's come across as an attitude.

I read through TONS of threads yesterday about UA. Honestly, upwards of 20 - 30 threads. One in particular had many links to MB radio, I can't find which one because there are so many in my history, but I listened to one regarding young kids where he did say you can do it at home after kids are in bed. I'm not lying about that either.


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but I listened to one regarding young kids where he did say you can do it at home after kids are in bed. I'm not lying about that either.
I know which one you're talking about, because I've heard it and used to use it to defend my position that it didn't matter if you had UA at home.

In all his shows, Dr. Harley has said that ONCE, to ONE couple.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.

In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA

VERY FEW couples will do all that. It doesn't work. You are pulling out on radio show where he told one person she could do that, and you are using it as a loophole to ignore everything else Dr. Harley says about UA.


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I just did a search in my city's local mom's Facebook page to see what people have responded when people ask about babysitting. $12-15 per hour is average for what I see, and that's based on 2 kids, not 4. Can you post photos here? I'm happy to post screenshots if you don't believe me.

I don't know why I can't disagree with what you guys say about even the most general topics, like typical babysitting responsibilities. This isn't a MB concept, people, you're not the experts on it. I have been a mother for 13 years and have many, many mommy friends, and was a babysitter myself for years as a teen and even early in motherhood. My experience on this topic is no less valid than yours.

Last edited by 13yearsdown; 12/19/16 11:12 PM.

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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
But I showed you a direct quote from Dr Harley about the 4 hours. Did you read it? He also states this on his radio show all the time. He instructed those of us who went through his online program to do this. Most of us posting to you know Dr Harley and have listened to thousands of hours of his radio shows.

I read it and I replied with a quote from the MAIN PAGE of POUA from his website. Literally, if you go to the marriage builders website and you click on BASIC CONCEPTS and then on POLICY OF UNDIVIDED ATTENTION, it says "I suggest" 2-3 hours per day. Is the "I" not Dr. H??

LITERALLY, if you read the quote I posted, he says FOUR - 4 hour dates. That is Dr. Harley's QUOTE. He says this all the time on his radio show. He taught this principle to many of us on this thread when we attended his seminar. He has replaced his older advice with FOUR - 4 hour dates.

Quote
I am not questioning whether you guys are just making stuff up. If you say he's said it, I believe you. My question seems like common sense, if his new position is the end all be all of what he advises and he himself sees this as hard and fast rule, why hasn't he updated his materials to reflect that?

He often does when we point it out to him. We have explained to him how people look for each and every loophole in his material and then he changes it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Prisca
I know which one you're talking about, because I've heard it and used to use it to defend my position that it didn't matter if you had UA at home.

In all his shows, Dr. Harley has said that ONCE, to ONE couple.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.

In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA

VERY FEW couples will do all that. It doesn't work. You are pulling out on radio show where he told one person she could do that, and you are using it as a loophole to ignore everything else Dr. Harley says about UA.

I'm not pulling it out, it's not like I listened to 10,000 hours of radio show to find the one 30 second clip where he said it. I was browsing the forum for posts about UA and one linked to the segment where he gave this advice.

Maybe I don't understand how this works. HE gave that advice on HIS radio show, but you guys get to say that that advice was wrong and doesn't work?


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
[
I am sorry I have come across as an argumentative contrarian, it is not my intention, and I regret making this impression. I am just being honest in my reactions to what you're saying. If I've been rude, I apologize. I sometimes use sarcasm to lighten the mood, but I'm sorry if it's come across as an attitude.

Being "honest" is a poor excuse for brawling with volunteers on this board. You ARE argumentative and rude and have been told that many times by many people. The moderators will probably lock your thread if you don't stop it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He often does when we point it out to him. We have explained to him how people look for each and every loophole in his material and then he changes it.

I guess I don't see how his own material is a loophole.


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by Prisca
I know which one you're talking about, because I've heard it and used to use it to defend my position that it didn't matter if you had UA at home.

In all his shows, Dr. Harley has said that ONCE, to ONE couple.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.

In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA

VERY FEW couples will do all that. It doesn't work. You are pulling out on radio show where he told one person she could do that, and you are using it as a loophole to ignore everything else Dr. Harley says about UA.

I'm not pulling it out, it's not like I listened to 10,000 hours of radio show to find the one 30 second clip where he said it. I was browsing the forum for posts about UA and one linked to the segment where he gave this advice.

Maybe I don't understand how this works. HE gave that advice on HIS radio show, but you guys get to say that that advice was wrong and doesn't work?

13year, my wife has personally spoken to Dr. Harley on the phone about this apparent contradiction in his materials. Do you want to hear what she has to say about it or not? If so, please just reread it because she has already posted it to you in this post you are quoting.


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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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A warning that this thread will be locked if the arguing and debating does not stop. The purpose of this forum is to help posters find solutions to their marriage problems. It is not a debate society.


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by Prisca
I know which one you're talking about, because I've heard it and used to use it to defend my position that it didn't matter if you had UA at home.

In all his shows, Dr. Harley has said that ONCE, to ONE couple.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.

In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA

VERY FEW couples will do all that. It doesn't work. You are pulling out on radio show where he told one person she could do that, and you are using it as a loophole to ignore everything else Dr. Harley says about UA.

I'm not pulling it out, it's not like I listened to 10,000 hours of radio show to find the one 30 second clip where he said it. I was browsing the forum for posts about UA and one linked to the segment where he gave this advice.

Maybe I don't understand how this works. HE gave that advice on HIS radio show, but you guys get to say that that advice was wrong and doesn't work?

I don't think you understand what my wife means by "pulling it out." Please go back and reread her post and respond to some other part of it; you are missing what she is telling you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Please pay attention to this. You need to see this. This is more important than UA.

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by markos
I think the real problem here is you have a husband who isn't on board, and you are trying to figure all this out for him when it is really his job to figure it out, and if he doesn't, you're not going to be happy and your marriage is not going to work.

I didn't see an answer to this question I asked:
Originally Posted by markos
Right, MB solves this with the policy of joint agreement which in this case would require that your husband not engage in this behavior because you are not enthusiastic about it.

Is your husband on board with doing the program, including the policy of joint agreement?

It's hard with him, because in THEORY he will agree to anything. If it's all hypothetical, he's the easiest going guy around. In fact, that's one of the biggest issues we have with the faith/no faith issue. When we sit down and talk about it, he says I DO want to be religious, I DO want to take the kids to church and teach them about God. But then every sunday it's a battle. He has a new reason he wants to stay home (I have the sniffles, i didnt get enough sleep, our toddler will misbehave, Ill just keep him home-- seriously he never runs out of reasons) or he will leave in the middle of church and go sit in the car. He won't tell the kids that he's lost faith, and doesn't want me to tell them either.

The same with most things. If I have a calm conversation with him about media, he's like, yeah I shouldnt be watching it, I don't want my boys to watch this kind of thing, but then when I say something when he IS watching it, it's, "Oh this one scene isn't so bad. You saw her nipples?! I didn't notice!! The rest of the show has been good." Blah blah blah

I think it will be the same with MB. Yesterday he was on board, but then when the kids went to bed, he just walked up to bed alone and watched TV for an hour before going to sleep.

If it's just hypothetical, he will move heaven and earth for me. Hahaha

Okay, you are going to need to get him to agree to some accountability or he is going to drive you nuts.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him this:
"I can't live with you watching these TV shows any more. It just hurts too much. I married you for life, but that was with the expectation that we were going to have a marriage of caring for each other and to me that means never doing anything that hurts each other. If you can't agree to that, then I can't continue to let you hurt me like this."

(Notice that there's nothing in there disrespectful or judgmental. Nothing that says what he is watching is wrong or immoral or whatever - just the fact that it hurts you. It's all about how it makes you feel, because that is THE MOST important issue. That's what's wrong with watching porn: it hurts wives.)

If he doesn't agree to start living this way, you start preparing for a separation. If he does agree but doesn't change anything, you start preparing for a separation. If he agrees and keeps his agreement, then great, you move on to the next issue and start discussing that, until you are both living the whole program, all of it based on the fact that you need him to live this way because it hurts too much if he does not.

Let me assure you that if I were a married woman in your situation that is exactly what I would do. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Prisca is exactly the same way.

But if that seems too strong for you I have two alternative suggestions. The first one is free: contact Dr. Harley at his radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see if he can help you get your husband to agree to stop doing anything you are not enthusiastic about. The second one is paid: sign up for the coaching and accountability program and see if Dr. Harley and his coaches can help get your husband to agree. Either way if your husband doesn't cooperate or doesn't cooperate for long, I would encourage you to start preparing for a separation, because it is better to separate sooner while you are feeling better and still willing to make your marriage work than it is to drag things out until you are so hurt that you cannot stand your husband and never want to see him again.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by markos
13year, my wife has personally spoken to Dr. Harley on the phone about this apparent contradiction in his materials. Do you want to hear what she has to say about it or not? If so, please just reread it because she has already posted it to you in this post you are quoting.

I just reread and your wife didn't mention anything about Dr. H acknowledging or addressing a contradiction in his materials, either officially or to her.


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Originally Posted by Denali
A warning that this thread will be locked if the arguing and debating does not stop. The purpose of this forum is to help posters find solutions to their marriage problems. It is not a debate society.

Good point, thanks.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA
Would you say any of this is true for you and your husband?


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The reason we are such hardliners on this board is that almost 100% of the time when people come to this board they are in situations where corners cannot be cut and they need someone to help them rigorously apply the program with no exceptions or they are not going to make it.

The people who just read the program and do it and it works for them and they might be able to afford an exception here and there are not the people who come to this board looking for help.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Prisca
In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA
Would you say any of this is true for you and your husband?

You have a serious reason why doing things differently won't work for you, and my wife has posted it to you, and I have tried to post about it but haven't seen you answer. I think if you want things to get better in your marriage you are going to have to face that issue.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Please pay attention to this. You need to see this. This is more important than UA.

Originally Posted by markos
Okay, you are going to need to get him to agree to some accountability or he is going to drive you nuts.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him this:
"I can't live with you watching these TV shows any more. It just hurts too much. I married you for life, but that was with the expectation that we were going to have a marriage of caring for each other and to me that means never doing anything that hurts each other. If you can't agree to that, then I can't continue to let you hurt me like this."

(Notice that there's nothing in there disrespectful or judgmental. Nothing that says what he is watching is wrong or immoral or whatever - just the fact that it hurts you. It's all about how it makes you feel, because that is THE MOST important issue. That's what's wrong with watching porn: it hurts wives.)

If he doesn't agree to start living this way, you start preparing for a separation. If he does agree but doesn't change anything, you start preparing for a separation. If he agrees and keeps his agreement, then great, you move on to the next issue and start discussing that, until you are both living the whole program, all of it based on the fact that you need him to live this way because it hurts too much if he does not.

Let me assure you that if I were a married woman in your situation that is exactly what I would do. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Prisca is exactly the same way.

But if that seems too strong for you I have two alternative suggestions. The first one is free: contact Dr. Harley at his radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see if he can help you get your husband to agree to stop doing anything you are not enthusiastic about. The second one is paid: sign up for the coaching and accountability program and see if Dr. Harley and his coaches can help get your husband to agree. Either way if your husband doesn't cooperate or doesn't cooperate for long, I would encourage you to start preparing for a separation, because it is better to separate sooner while you are feeling better and still willing to make your marriage work than it is to drag things out until you are so hurt that you cannot stand your husband and never want to see him again.

You're right. The problem is like the previous poster mentioned, he agrees to everything. He doesn't like conflict, so he will say whatever the other person wants to hear in the moment. We did marriage counseling once (not MB), and they would give homework and he would always agree to do whatever it was, but then not do it.

An ultimatum scares me. I know that has the potential to bring about the change that would make BOTH of us happy, but there's a part of me that feels like I really would rather deal with the status quo than actually break up my family....


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Prisca
In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA
Would you say any of this is true for you and your husband?

1. Nope
2. I think it's possible, especially if we agreed to put away devices.
3. If I'm being honest, this is something I need to work on whether we go out or stay in. I haven't "let myself go" entirely but I am definitely overly casual (sweatpants even when we go out) and don't make as much effort as I should. I still like shower every day and put on makeup and I don't wear like dirty clothes or anything, but I don't try to be cute. He's good about not making me feel bad about this but I know he would like it if I made more effort. The truth is that I have put on about 15 lbs in the last couple of years and I feel really bad about it and somehow trying to be cute makes me feel worse rather than better. I need to get serious about losing that weight, too, among the other things I need to get serious about.
4. I think I am 100% clear and in agreement with this point. It's a LB for me that he goes to bed to watch TV every night instead of interacting with me.


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Originally Posted by markos
The reason we are such hardliners on this board is that almost 100% of the time when people come to this board they are in situations where corners cannot be cut and they need someone to help them rigorously apply the program with no exceptions or they are not going to make it.

The people who just read the program and do it and it works for them and they might be able to afford an exception here and there are not the people who come to this board looking for help.

That makes total sense. I know it seems to you guys like I'm looking for loopholes, but the truth is that this is THE SCARIEST part about this program. I FEEL like I can do the rest. I see the wisdom in all of it. I agree that AO have absolutely NO PLACE in a healthy marriage and it is my goal to 100% eliminate that from how I interact with my family, even though I know that will be super hard to do. I believe I can do it. The same with POJA. I can do it, even when it's hard. The time doesn't just seem hard, it seems impossible. And I don't know what good it would do for me to say, I see how I can do that when I don't. BUT I WANT TO!



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