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Originally Posted by living_well
You are feeling down because you broke Plan B, not because you truly believe WH and OW are happy. You said yourself that he is a serial cheater with a girl in every port. They get their thrill out of the chase and conquest, they have no interest in a real relationship with these women. In any case they always trade down so these women are the dregs of society. In the case of my XH his undoing was a fat ugly middle aged woman who got her hooks into him. That scared him because he had absolutely no intention of breaking up his marriage. Why would he? He had everything he wanted including the side dishes. But she threatened to spill the beans. As soon as I filed for divorce he dumped her. When a side dish tries to become the main course, it gets put into the bin. I'm betting OW has been dumped but you don't need to think about it. Not your problem.


Hi Living Well, you were so right about this. Now that a few more days have gone by, it is really clear that how I was feeling was just the result of the plan B break. Amazing how effective zero contact is for keeping a stable happy mood!! Yes, my WH is exactly the same as yours. He also had no intention of leaving me or the kids - and that's why he's so mad about me spoiling his life plans. Anyway, now that my plan B is properly secured again, I couldn't care less how mad he is 4000 kms away laugh

Originally Posted by living_well
Yes that is totally normal I remember a moment of sudden clarity when I realised that my XH would not change until it was too late. He was genuine and honest for a week after I confronted him and in 6 months was back to his old ways. Now 10 years later we are still in litigation because he cannot let go. He was too scared to change. It takes an enormous amount of courage to overcome addiction and you need to have no other options. After 6 months he thought the storm had blown over and that it could be business as usual.


This is such an important reminder of what I would be facing if I had to actually interact with him. He would do exactly the same thing: pretend to be a great husband for a while until he thought I wasn't looking so hard anymore, then he'd be right back at his old tricks, totally manipulating me long the way.

Anyway, I feel a hundred times better just being back in my home with the kids and away from all triggers. Dr Harley's advice about moving to a nice environment for plan B is really valuable. It makes a huge difference to the amount of rubbish I am able to cope with just knowing that my home is nice and the kids are happy here too.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I understand the concept of the Love Bank, but how can someone who has treated me so awfully and done basically nothing to fulfill any of my emotional needs ever, while also heaping abuse on me continually, and putting me through indescribable pain over and over again, be someone that I still (if I am truthful with myself) want?

A lot of abusers really are masters at making just enough love bank deposits to string someone along. They learn exactly what buttons to push.

Quote
I also wonder when I will stop having this deep-down niggling feeling that I actually want WH to change and come back, however unlikely that is.

Don't forget that keeping your Plan B airtight will help with this.

Thanks a lot Markos. Yes, WH seems to be a master. Although I also think I am pre-disposed to being abused. I've spent this week getting my documentation in order to fight against my employer who has suspended me. Now that i am reviewing all my emails, I can see that they have actually been trying quite hard to get rid of me for 3 years - but I didn't notice! I just kept doing everything I was supposed to do, batting away all their attacks, totally oblivious to the grand plan which is so obvious in retorspect. I have the feeling I did the same thing with WH. Focusing on being the best wife I could be, getting more and more confused why strange things kept coming up, unable to see what was right in front of my eyes. I am a bit anxious that I might be so naive that it verges on stupidity.....


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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It is quite normal to expect a husband to act as a good husband would, it is also normal to expect your employer not to be corrupt. The reason you didn't see it right away is because you are honest.

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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
It is quite normal to expect a husband to act as a good husband would, it is also normal to expect your employer not to be corrupt. The reason you didn't see it right away is because you are honest.

But having had these experiences - you will be honest AND smart enough to see these tactics rightaway in the future.


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Thanks Goody2shoes and Happyheart. I am relieved that other people think it is normal to expect people to not be evil!! Now that my eyes have been opened, I can't really go back to naivete - so I hope I can find a useful way to use this new knowledge


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
It has become clear that OW believes her and WH are in a long-distance relationship. The reason I know this is that OW has a nasty habit of detailing her life to the world by use of the medium of white stick-figure stickers that people put on the back of their cars to illustrate the composition of their family (I don't think this is just a South African thing, is it?!). Every previous time i have seen her in her car (which I only became aware of after she accosted me in a mall car park), she has had a picture of a woman (her), a girl (her daughter) and a boy (I just knew that was WH....). However, last week, she was in a different car, and this one had a stick figure woman on the left hand side of the back windscreen and a stick figure man on the right hand side.

I am usually so good about not thinking about all the awful things WH has done - and happy in my plan B world where me and the kids now live - that it has taken me totally by surprise how upsetting I found this encounter. I guess I thought I had done such a great job with exposure and with dragging OW through the courts, that she would turn on WH for not being there for her, seeing as she is alone in the dock and dealing with the mess he left her in. But i now realise I was lying to myself AGAIN. WH has always maintained a world-wide network of women who all believe he wants to marry them, or that they have true love that is only thwarted by circumstance (WH conveniently leaving the country/having work commitments that prevent him from travelling/some other reason that wouldn't stand up to proper scrutiny). It doesn't seem to matter how little he sees them, or how little attention or time he gives them, or the fact that they find themselves giving him money, he is manipulative and skilled enough to maintain their devotion over many many years. He did the same thing with me obviously, the one difference being that he actually married me - and entrusted me with all our joint assets and savings. So why am I surprised that OW is still devoted to him, despite the fact he left the country a year ago and hasn't been back?! I guess I just hoped that everything I had done, including taking so much of his income, would somehow have affected his enjoyment of life. But if he is still able to maintain his harems of women - and they think my and the children's existance is nothing to worry about - then I'm sure life is just great for him as it always has been. I have taken all his responsibility and daily annoyances away from him, leaving him to enjoy the single life without impediment. That makes me sad, hurt, and frustrated. I feel like he has just edited our entire marriage out of his life as if it never really happened. And OW believes that too.

I have never heard of the stick figure thing!

How is it that you and OW are crossing paths in this way?

Could it not simply be a case of a new car/old stickers or mind games?

I think contact with OW may be triggering you significantly. I mean, of course he has a chain of fools. It's still not something you want to see and (falsely) compare yourself to. You were never a mistress. But comparisons are going to happen with contact.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I understand the concept of the Love Bank, but how can someone who has treated me so awfully and done basically nothing to fulfill any of my emotional needs ever, while also heaping abuse on me continually, and putting me through indescribable pain over and over again, be someone that I still (if I am truthful with myself) want?

A lot of abusers really are masters at making just enough love bank deposits to string someone along. They learn exactly what buttons to push.

Quote
I also wonder when I will stop having this deep-down niggling feeling that I actually want WH to change and come back, however unlikely that is.

Don't forget that keeping your Plan B airtight will help with this.

Thanks a lot Markos. Yes, WH seems to be a master. Although I also think I am pre-disposed to being abused. I've spent this week getting my documentation in order to fight against my employer who has suspended me. Now that i am reviewing all my emails, I can see that they have actually been trying quite hard to get rid of me for 3 years - but I didn't notice! I just kept doing everything I was supposed to do, batting away all their attacks, totally oblivious to the grand plan which is so obvious in retorspect. I have the feeling I did the same thing with WH. Focusing on being the best wife I could be, getting more and more confused why strange things kept coming up, unable to see what was right in front of my eyes. I am a bit anxious that I might be so naive that it verges on stupidity.....

Predisposed to abuse? That has not been my read on you at all. You can't know this stuff until you know it. Wayward husbands put the bad stuff out of sight and put extra good stuff in your eyeline; are you supposed to distrust your own eyes?

We also tend to judge others by our own standards. Reasonable wives and reasonable employees assume that the husband/employer would just put their cards on the table for discussion; how else would anything get done!

You're not the one who is stupid. The people who set fire to perfectly good marriages/contractual agreements without even trying to be constructive are.

If you're really concerned about predisposition, ping Dr H an email; but please know that abusive tactics work on everyone.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hi Indie,

Originally Posted by indiegirl
I have never heard of the stick figure thing!

Maybe it is only in south Africa then! They are stickers of figures doing different activities (eg, a man playing golf, a woman playing tennis, a boy kicking a ball, etc. There are loads of options...) that you buy at car supply shops to stick on your back windscreen and compose your family - i guess to display to the world how happy you all are puke


Originally Posted by indiegirl
How is it that you and OW are crossing paths in this way?

It is because of the criminal proceedings against her for assualt. I have to keep driving back to our previous country of residence in order to ensure that the prosecution process is continuing as it should be. It never is continuing as it should be, so i have to invest significant effort in doing a lot of the work of the prosecution myself. I only see her when she has to appear in court, and occassionally as she is driving out of the court car park. It is totally crazy that a trial based on a 15 minute incident 14 months ago should not have been concluded yet. But that is corruption for you. The prosecution case has now been concluded. The defence have made an application to dismiss the charges, and the judge makes a decision on that application on Wednesday 2 May. We believe he will reject the application and demand that the defence continue with presenting their case. So I think it will be another 2 months maximum. It is definitely a trigger, but the previous times it didn't bother me too much because I felt confident that she was dealing with the consequences of her actions all alone since WH left the country a year ago. But now that I suspect she thinks they are in a long-distance relationship, I know that WH must been giving her just enough attention to make her believe that - and that made me feel a bit sick.

But you're right, it doesn't really matter, it doesn't make any difference to my life and wouldn't affect me at all if I didn't see it. The trial will be over soon and then I can really close that chapter......with the happy knowledge that OW has really got what was coming to her!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Predisposed to abuse? That has not been my read on you at all. You can't know this stuff until you know it. Wayward husbands put the bad stuff out of sight and put extra good stuff in your eyeline; are you supposed to distrust your own eyes?

We also tend to judge others by our own standards. Reasonable wives and reasonable employees assume that the husband/employer would just put their cards on the table for discussion; how else would anything get done!

You're not the one who is stupid. The people who set fire to perfectly good marriages/contractual agreements without even trying to be constructive are.

If you're really concerned about predisposition, ping Dr H an email; but please know that abusive tactics work on everyone.

Thanks Indie. I was just feeling really down on myself for a while a couple of weeks ago. When I went back to our previous country for the court date, I stayed the night with a couple who were good friends of ours for several years. The husband was out with WH every single friday evening for the duration of the time we were living there (8 years or so). The wife said to me: "But you KNEW he was like that!" in reference to WH. And it totally floored me. How could she have thought I knew? How would I have known? I was at home pregnant or caring for babies, dealing with the trauma of OC and his move to live with us, cooking, or travelling 6 hours each way every week to work in another country for the entire time. I was too exhausted to do anything! I felt uneasy about our marriage, and that, coupled with the escalting weirdness about his phone and violent incidents when I tried to look at it, made me install the spy software. But if i had really had evidence, I would have chucked him out ages ago. I suddenly felt like everyone we lived and socialised with knew much more about WH than I did. And that made me feel extrememly stupid, humiliated and betrayed.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
When I went back to our previous country for the court date, I stayed the night with a couple who were good friends of ours for several years. The husband was out with WH every single friday evening for the duration of the time we were living there (8 years or so). The wife said to me: "But you KNEW he was like that!" in reference to WH. And it totally floored me. How could she have thought I knew? How would I have known? I was at home.


puke

Oh dear no! I have to take a shower just reading that.

These types usually get weeded out of your life during exposure, sorry they've decided to spring this nonsense on you now!

If you're going back for the court case, you need to be super nice to yourself. Avoid OW and her car, stay in a nice hotel where you can treat yourself or stay with proper friends who recognise and cheer that you escaped a very devious and dangerous man and are a proper rock star.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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A little bit of good news today! While I don't really like to take pleasure in other people's suffering, OW had her application to dismiss the charges against her dismissed today laugh and the judge was scathing about all the lying she and her lawyer have been doing. I wasn't there in person, but my friend reported OW was visibly in shock.....i guess she is now starting to understand that a criminal trial is serious stuff....They tried to manipulate their way out of the hearing again today by coming up with some ridiculous lie about OW sitting exams 3 hours flight away. But then it seemed as though her lawyer suddenly remembered that I check with her employer when he gives these kind of excuses, so by midday she had miraculously flown in from her "exam" in Cape Town and was available to sit in the dock. We'll all be back in court on July 24 for the defence testimony and cross examination. Feels like we just made a bit step towards justice!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
OW was visibly in shock.....i guess she is now starting to understand that a criminal trial is serious stuff....

The delusion makes them seem so very formidable at first. They know no fear so they come at you at like a steam train.

Then comes that gratifying craaaaaash which makes you realise it was just a big pile of dumb.

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
But then it seemed as though her lawyer suddenly remembered that I check with her employer when he gives these kind of excuses, so by midday she had miraculously flown in from her "exam" in Cape Town and was available to sit in the dock. We'll all be back in court on July 24 for the defence testimony and cross examination. Feels like we just made a bit step towards justice!

Lawyers and OWs plan:

1) lie, lie, lie!
2) make excuses (see 1)

Done!

3) oh...wait. chalk checks up on lies, so make sure lie is uncheckable.

Redraft:

1) lie, lie, lie!
2) make excuses (see 1).

Done!

3) oh...wait. chalk checks up on lies, so make sure lie is uncheckable
4) um.......




What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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You have done an incredible amount of work. I am glad to hear that in your case OW and hopefully WS are finally feeling the consequences of their actions.

For my situation I have been waiting forever to expose. OM is back on FB now after hiding when the affair came up in court. I think OM and WS think that I am not going to act on their affair.

I am going to overboard with the exposure. The wait has made me learn a lot about exposing. I am not sure if there will be any effect sin ce the affair happened a while ago.


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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Lawyers and OWs plan:

1) lie, lie, lie!
2) make excuses (see 1)

Done!

3) oh...wait. chalk checks up on lies, so make sure lie is uncheckable.

Redraft:

1) lie, lie, lie!
2) make excuses (see 1).

Done!

3) oh...wait. chalk checks up on lies, so make sure lie is uncheckable
4) um.......

I love this!!!!!!
rotflmao


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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OC is having an operation to remove his adenoids today. While getting pre-authorisation for the medical insurance (which WH is supposed to pay for), I found out that he has downgraded our plan so that the doctor doing the operation is not covered. I now have to pay for the whole thing in cash. And he hasn't sent his court-ordered maintenance at all this month so I am left with zero money and having to pay for an operation somehow. I guess this is just what waywards do, but it is so depressing to see someone behave like this to their child. And now I will have to go through more legal hoops to try to get the money back from him.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
OC is having an operation to remove his adenoids today. While getting pre-authorisation for the medical insurance (which WH is supposed to pay for), I found out that he has downgraded our plan so that the doctor doing the operation is not covered. I now have to pay for the whole thing in cash. And he hasn't sent his court-ordered maintenance at all this month so I am left with zero money and having to pay for an operation somehow. I guess this is just what waywards do, but it is so depressing to see someone behave like this to their child. And now I will have to go through more legal hoops to try to get the money back from him.

Yes textbook wayward behaviour. But when you do the asset division, you will be able to lob all this in there. OC's medical costs are not even marital, they are WH's personal responsibility. Do not let him know that this bothers you or he will up the ante.

This will backfire on him spectacularly. My XH cancelled my daughter's health insurance the night before she was due to have major surgery on her knee. She has refused to have anything to do with him since.


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Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
OC is having an operation to remove his adenoids today. While getting pre-authorisation for the medical insurance (which WH is supposed to pay for), I found out that he has downgraded our plan so that the doctor doing the operation is not covered. I now have to pay for the whole thing in cash. And he hasn't sent his court-ordered maintenance at all this month so I am left with zero money and having to pay for an operation somehow. I guess this is just what waywards do, but it is so depressing to see someone behave like this to their child. And now I will have to go through more legal hoops to try to get the money back from him.

Yes textbook wayward behaviour. But when you do the asset division, you will be able to lob all this in there. OC's medical costs are not even marital, they are WH's personal responsibility. Do not let him know that this bothers you or he will up the ante.

This will backfire on him spectacularly. My XH cancelled my daughter's health insurance the night before she was due to have major surgery on her knee. She has refused to have anything to do with him since.

I think he is testing the effectiveness of the court order as an enforcement mechanism. I think he thinks since I haven't yet been able to get him to pay back the short-fall in maintenance payments since December (which amounts to around USD2000) or the medical expenses I have paid out of pocket (another USD1000), he's become a bit complacent. My attorney is working on it, but everything moves really slowly. I know you are right that it will backfire on him in the end, but sometimes i get really frustrated at how long justice or karma takes.

Two of WH's cousins turned up at the hospital by surprise. I was taken aback. The reason they knew where we were is because the medical insurance sends WH the details of the hospital in the pre-authorisation email. It seems he had sent them as envoys to pretend that he cares about his child - while not having to lift a finger to actually demonstrate real caring actions and simultaneously withholding the money for his medical care and our living expenses. Typical. I find it frustrating how difficult it is to explain to people the difference between words and actions. I had to spell out that, if WH actually did care - rather than just saying he cared in a whatsapp message to a cousin asking them to demonstrate the care he can't be bothered to do - then he would have hopped on a plane to see his son himself. Three hours on a flight is hardly an enromous effort, is it? I was communting 6 hours each way every week to work in another country for 5 YEARS to keep my family together.




Last edited by chalkncheese; 05/10/18 08:44 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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PS. Living Well, as always, I really value your insights having been married to someone who seems like a clone of my WH.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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