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Messy #2894895 02/16/17 11:44 AM
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She hasn't yet said what she wants to do for her alone time, I told her to determine what it was that she wanted to do and we'd discuss it.
Don't discuss it. And don't leave her alone. Continue with Plan A until you are in Plan B.

As long as you are doing okay physically, and as long as you are able to remain calm and not lose control of your emotions, you can continue Plan A. You can probably Plan A until the divorce is final.

Given that you are at the 6 months mark, though, write Dr. Harley and get his advice on whether you should continue with Plan A or go straight to Plan B. He sometimes tells men to go longer, and sometimes tells them to go to Plan B.

In the end, it's really up to you. No one would blame you if you went to Plan B and just moved on with your life.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2894903 02/16/17 01:11 PM
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I struggle with not honoring her request for alone time. I've been waiting for 5 months for her to start engaging in the healing process, so far she's basically been stuck in the fog and depression, she's now putting real energy into healing, and the first step for her is to make a decision if she wants to recover our marriage. I'm optimistic that her time away would result in a decision to move forward with recovery or move on with a D.

The anxiety of living in limbo, waiting for her to decide to engage is a terrible thing to endure, but I certainly don't want to enable the A...

Messy #2894916 02/16/17 03:45 PM
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Wanting time alone is NOT a step toward healing your marriage. Nothing good comes from a WW taking time away by herself. She is not putting energy into healing, she is running away from you and towards her affair.

If you let her go away by herself, you will be sending the message loud and clear that she's not worth pursuing.

So, don't debate her on her desire to get away. Don't discuss it. But, don't leave her alone either. Plan A is your best bet to turning this around (and you won't be able to Plan A if she's off by herself).


Markos' Wife
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8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2894919 02/16/17 03:59 PM
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Thanks, I won't discuss it. Hopefully she can come to a conclusion on her own without a need to go on some type of sabbatical.

Messy #2894920 02/16/17 04:07 PM
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you don't want to tell her that, just lure her into spending time with you by making offers she can't refuse...


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So I haven't been able to get move past the need for alone time. I'm getting a strong, disconnected vibe from her and even when we embrace, it feels more like a pity embrace, like she's doing it cause she knows she's about to hurt me by telling me she's done.

I don't know what to do, she's an avoidant personality, is afraid to act on it so she is dragging this out, I just cant see how she'll say she wants to stay, there isn't any love headed my way, just pity or empathy I guess. I fear she's convinced herself she's done and is just working up the courage to end it.

Last night it was all I could do to not call her out on it, and tell her I can tell she is done, but I didn't, still trying to stay in plan A. But the suspense is killing me, I am really struggling to maintain plan A when I feel like she's done and just doesn't have the courage to tell me.

Should I bring it up? I need advice please, also I'm thinking maybe I should talk to Dr. Harley, what's the best way to get in touch with him?

thanks in advance.

Last edited by Messy; 02/17/17 08:44 AM.
Messy #2894996 02/17/17 12:38 PM
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It is normal and natural for women to fall in love with men they do not initially like, when they meet their emotional needs and are persistent and not deterred by their obvious rejection. Happens all the time.


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Persistence.


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Thought I'd provide an update and seek some adivice, still managing plan A as best I can. WW is somewhat responsive, but still not committed or ready to actively work on the marriage. She is content to stay where we currently are in this stage of limbo. She's not willing to commit to me or the marriage yet, so I'm still the only one actively working on improving things. SShe makes almost zero LB deposits for me. She hasn't had her 'away' time yet, and though we've talked about it, she still doesn't know that if she gets it, she'll be able to make a decision.

All indications are that the A is still over (VAR, electronic records). But there's always a chance they've been able to hide it...

I'm still struggling with DJ (unintentional) when we have conversations about where things are. The pain of living with the woman you love and living together as if nothing is wrong but knowing she doesn't love you and is trying to decide if she wants to end things is unbearable at times, and it comes out in the form of DJ to try and get her to move out of her indecision in order to gain closure. I'm really struggling with this area, I'm not sure how to manage that emotion all the time. It usually comes out as me either shutting down, or trying to get her to meet my key ENs (though shes unwilling to) which then turns into a DJ or AO because she just is stuck and I'm frustrated that I can't get her to take action. Any suggestions?

At this point its been 7 months of plan A, now I fully acknowledge I haven't been perfect these 7 months, mostly in the form of DJ as a result of the emotional pain of the A being toxic and seeping out. However, I've corrected many of primary issues she cited that lead to the vulnerability for the A. I'm 7+ months sober from porn, really involved with the kids and around the house. Bottom line is WW doesn't feel love towards me, but is mostly feeling resentment and anger, and isn't sure if she can let go of the past. During any discussion she response to my DJ's with long, venomous rewrites of the past, focusing on negatives.

At this point I feel like my options are as follows:
1) Continue plan A and STOP the DJ (something I need to figure out, because the pain keeps causing me to try and 'fix' things)

2) Plan B

3) Request WW decide if she can recommit to the M and start working on MB and meeting each others EN by XX date, and if she can't Plan B.

Thoughts?

Messy #2897097 04/10/17 08:57 AM
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Well some things have changed for the better since the last post.

First off, I was able to find new resolve to maintain plan A, now focused even more on being myself and eliminating LB.

Secondly, and more importantly, after an issue yesterday we talked briefly and then decided together to wait until emotions had died to continue the conversation. I took the time to refocus and study SAA again and when we talked about things later, I was able to explain the issue in terms of LB and basically said there is so much anger on both sides right now that I would like to start working on MB again and trying to figure out how we can get over the LB.

At that point, I told WW that it's been 7 months, and that we've been caught in a cycle for most of it, where things are 'ok' for a few weeks, (because we ignore the issues) and then something triggers a skirmish that escalates quickly and results in many LB on both sides. I said I'm ready to find greatness with her and made the request that we start working through the recovery section of SAA. I ended the conversation there and waited until this morning to bring it up again, requesting that she take some time to think about my request and let me know. Here's the good news... She said yes! She's agreed to start working through SAA I can sense the reluctancey, but she's at least said she will.

This is great news for me, now I know the proof will be in the follow through and I need to manage a pace that is comfortable for her and allows us both to fully implement the MB.

So now my question is this, should I order the LB book, or is the info in SAA sufficient? BTW, we also have HNHN & Fall in Love, stay in love.

Thanks!

Messy #2897098 04/10/17 09:39 AM
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Yes, you should get Lovebusters. And you should get He Wins, She Wins. HNHN is only 1/3 of the program.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2897099 04/10/17 11:57 AM
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And Messy, you need to be listening to Dr. Harley's radio program, daily - you can get an app for your phone and listen. It's free. Have you heard it?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897104 04/10/17 01:39 PM
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Prisca - Thanks I'll order a copy of LB.

Markos - I will definitely get the MB radio app. I've only listened to clips so far.

I am planning on proceeding gently with this, if I push to hard or try to force it (SD!) she'll run away from it... This is the first time since D-day +4 weeks that she's willing to go near MB... Please pray that she joins the fight.

Messy #2897402 04/18/17 09:42 AM
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Update for you, I picked up LB and will start reading it this week, we were out of town all weekend and had an overall good time.

We had our first MB conversation and WW was not too enthusiastic. She didn't finish the chapter in SAA, I was disappointed because it was only 14 pages and it wasn't a priority to read.

It's clear WW is still in the fog babble stage, and I fear she is getting affirmation from her IC. Making comments about it wasn't 50/50 fault, and that I was the one responsible for our bad marriage, I guess this means I'm also responsible for the A too? I didn't refute the comment about who owned more LB prior to the A and I continued the conversation by basically owning the LB's that I had done in the past, however she didn't think she had committed many LB. Again, making me believe she is still justifying the affair. Even telling me how she had discussed me with her IC and that 'people like me' behave impulsively and can't control themselves (due to porn), again, painting me as the monster. I own my issues in that area and have taken EP to fix it and I'm 8 mos sober. But she said that being around her is like an alcoholic being in a bar, due to my desire for SF - mind you, we haven't had any for over 3 months and I haven't requested it during that time.

Overall the conversation was disappointing for me, she acknowledged that she appreciates me being more 'introspective' and working on things, but it feels all one-sided at this point to me because she's still just 'showing up' to use her terms and is unable to show me love because she doesn't feel it, but will tell me she loves me? I'm confused, so many mixed signals. She feels like MB is 'childish' due to the terminology or 'common sense' and that you shouldn't have to read the books to identify what you're doing that are LB. Again, lack of ownership on her part.

I'm still just not sure what to do, I have a growing resentment towards WW, not because of the A, but because of the inability to make a decision and work actively on the marriage. The pride and indecision she is showing is extremely unattractive. Even when she asked me what I felt one of her LB was she dismissed it. She asked for an example, I gave her one, which was arguably the biggest reason for our fighting, and she dismissed it as 'only one thing'... ugh, just not sure where to go with this.

Thoughts and advice?

Last edited by Messy; 04/18/17 09:44 AM.
Messy #2897405 04/18/17 10:08 AM
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Messy,

What's going to save your marriage is the actual deposit of Love Bank units. Persuading her of anything isn't going to save your marriage. Even if it were possible.

So there's not a need to have a conversation about who "owns" love busters or whatever or whether or not she is to blame for her affair.

What you're looking for is how you can make Love Bank deposits and information about Love Bank withdrawals you can avoid. You want to be constantly refining your approach so that you are making bigger and bigger deposits and eliminating withdrawals. Over time, assuming she is not receiving Love Bank deposits from someone else, this will change her feelings toward you and then all of the babble will disappear.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897408 04/18/17 10:23 AM
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Thanks for the wake up call markos. You're right, sometimes I lose sight of that in my own desire for LB deposits and closure to this situation...

Working on LB deposits.

Messy #2897447 04/18/17 01:42 PM
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I guess the other side of this, that I haven't found yet in any of the threads here or on Dr. Harley's site, is what if the A is blown up and ended via exposure, but WW still doesn't want to actively work on the M?

We've been 'stuck' in neutral for almost 8 months, at what point do I say, time to get to work or go to plan B/D? Basically, my love bank is running dry after 8 months and I'm ready to move forward with my life, either with or without her, I just cant take this purgatory position much longer. Am I just being impatient? Or do I take solace in the fact that she hasn't left and is slooooowly coming around (sorta) as this is just part of our long recovery and I just keep up with the permanent plan A?

Thoughts?

Last edited by Messy; 04/18/17 01:53 PM.
Messy #2897454 04/18/17 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Messy
I guess the other side of this, that I haven't found yet in any of the threads here or on Dr. Harley's site, is what if the A is blown up and ended via exposure, but WW still doesn't want to actively work on the M?

A wife not wanting to work on the marriage is pretty much the most common situation I have seen!

The solution is as I described above: you have to take the steps to change her feelings before she will be willing to work.

Don't issue any ultimatums, and don't give her any deadlines. (If you want to privately set your own deadline that's fine. Dr. Harley recommends you give it two years. When the deadline hits you separate.)

You can communicate your needs to her. Tell her what you would like from her, and tell her if anything she is doing hurts or bothers you, and then sit back and see if she makes any adjustment or not. Many women won't make any adjustment until they are in love with their husbands.

If you decide you don't want to do this, that's fine, you can always separate or file for divorce. But don't fight about it with your wife because that will make her less likely to meet your needs. This is why you don't give her a deadline or threaten to leave. If you hold the possibility of divorce out over her and that's what it takes to get her working, she will hate you for it.

If you have trouble motivating yourself to do this and feel like you can't do it and want to give up, you can see your doctor about antidepressants. I had to do that for awhile when Prisca was not motivated to work on our marriage.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897498 04/19/17 06:16 AM
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Thanks for the guidance Markos. I did read 'when to call it quits part 3' yesterday and that was also helpful.

I'm on AD and they certainly help, it's just the moments of weakness where my taker starts getting louder that I get frustrated.

Still gonna stay strong with plan A. I'll check back in soon, thanks!

Messy #2897590 04/20/17 11:18 AM
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Want your thoughts on something...

like most men, SF is my top EN, followed by affection and admiration... well as written above WW is not meeting any of those needs. Is it inappropriate for me to request SF or affection? I don't want to LB.

Thanks.

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