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Messy #2897874 04/26/17 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Originally Posted by Prisca
And the problem with her going through your phone is .......?

It's not really a problem, its mostly that it's not reciprocal, she would be angry if I went through her phone.

I guess what bothered me by it was being sneaky about it and not acknowledging anything about it. I am letting it go, it just bothered me for some reason, but like I said, I have nothing to hide so I'm not concerned about what she saw or would see.

It's going to be really important for you to lead by example when it comes to Marriage Builders principles.

So the principle about going through each other's phone is ... ?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Messy #2897875 04/26/17 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Thanks for the feedback, Dr. Harley would say I'm angry because I'm not getting what I want.

There's a good sign you're not listening to the radio show! wink


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Messy #2897876 04/26/17 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Thanks AGAIN (I need to continue to learn how to improve and the reminders help!) for the reminder Markos, I haven't been able to listen to the radio show regularly, just a few clips here and there. I'm not sure how I squeeze that into my day, but I'll see if I can find a time window to squeeze this in.

I listen while at work and while driving.

What it says in my signature about the show is true. I'm earnestly serious about that.

How badly do you want to succeed at this? Because you are passing up HUNDREDS of HOURS of FREE COUNSELING.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
You have posted today as if we obviously agree with you about recent events, and as if we would chuckle along with you, but your posts are full of DJs and unpleasant insinuations...and "lol" does not excuse this.

SugarCane, you are correct, I know the recent events were major LB, my anger and frustrations are obvious in my posts. I'm struggling to control my emotions and not allowing them to affect my behavior. Not an excuse, just an area that I need to continue to improve.

Honestly, I hate to complain, cause I know you all have been through this and worse, but it all feels overwhelming to me. I haven't figured out how to not push or pressure for a decision. I can be good for a few weeks, but then my underlying hurt boils over in the form of AO or DJ. I'm getting better, but its not good enough yet.

I do appreciate the honest feedback on this forum, when I posted this morning I was secretly hoping for some validation and affirmation, but I didn't deserve any for the way things went down. I acknowledge that, thanks for the reminder that I need to focus on changing/growing myself. I know I keep searching for the easy fix button, and there isn't one.

markos #2897880 04/26/17 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by markos
It's going to be really important for you to lead by example when it comes to Marriage Builders principles.

So the principle about going through each other's phone is ... ?

I believe its the policy of radical honesty.

Messy #2897881 04/26/17 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Messy
I haven't figured out how to not push or pressure for a decision. I can be good for a few weeks, but then my underlying hurt boils over in the form of AO or DJ. I'm getting better, but its not good enough yet.

We are going to help you with that if we can get you listening to the show. You can't skip class and expect to perform well. wink

Quote
I know I keep searching for the easy fix button, and there isn't one.

HERE IT IS:
http://marriagebuilders.com/app/


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897882 04/26/17 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by markos
[quote=Messy]
I listen while at work and while driving.

What it says in my signature about the show is true. I'm earnestly serious about that.

How badly do you want to succeed at this? Because you are passing up HUNDREDS of HOURS of FREE COUNSELING.

I really want to succeed at this. I am typically unable to listen at work and my commute is only 10 min. I'll will try to fit this in. I can probably get some time in during lunch and other times throughout the day.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Prisca
Can you tell me what Dr. Harley says about anger? Who makes you angry, according to him? How do you eliminate angry outbursts?
Originally Posted by Messy
Dr. Harley would say I'm angry because I'm not getting what I want.
Nononono: he would not say that at all.

That's a fail. You need to study this properly.

What does Dr Harley say about anger? According to him, who makes you - and that means you, me, or anybody - angry?

I don't know the correct answer, I'm still at the beginning of the LB book. I do believe Dr. Harley's advice to overcoming AO is to 'self-trigger' or short circuit the event when the anger feeling arrives. I need to work on this habit, either walking away or calming myself down. I do believe I have improved in this area, but I'm just calming down from anger to DJ probably. Work in progress... back to the homework.

Last edited by Messy; 04/26/17 12:02 PM.
Messy #2897884 04/26/17 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Originally Posted by markos
It's going to be really important for you to lead by example when it comes to Marriage Builders principles.

So the principle about going through each other's phone is ... ?

I believe its the policy of radical honesty.
That is not entirely wrong, but the policy of radical honesty is about what each spouse should actively give to the other. It is about revealing your history and your emotions, thoughts and feelings to your spouse, and revealing your past, present and your future plans; but is not about your spouse snooping through your phone, per se. This is how Dr Harley describes the Policy of Radical Honesty:

The Policy of Radical Honesty

Reveal to your spouse as much
information about yourself as you know;
your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes,
dislikes, personal history, daily activities,
and plans for the future.

The Policy of Radical Honesty

Snooping is when one spouse checks up on the other, independently of what the other is revealing.

Please read this article and answer markos's question again: So the principle of going through each other's phone is...?
Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?


BW
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His PA 2003-2006
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Messy #2897885 04/26/17 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Messy
I do believe Dr. Harley's advice to overcoming AO is to 'self-trigger' or short circuit the event when the anger feeling arrives.
I don't know what you mean by"self-trigger", or by "short circuit the event", but that's not what Dr Harley says.


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Messy #2897886 04/26/17 12:09 PM
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You have a right to your anger, Messy. All betrayed spouses are confronted with the most intense of emotions, including anger, resentment, hurt, and sadness. Infidelity leaves scars on its victims.

But if you wish to make it through this having "aced the test" you need to be hyper vigilant of your impulses. Avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments at all costs. They feel good when you release them, but in the final analysis they do not help, and, worse, later you will regret having done them.

Do it right. Follow the plan. Keep improving yourself. Be the better person and you will win. It's mathematical.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Snooping is when one spouse checks up on the other, independently of what the other is revealing.

Please read this article and answer markos's question again: So the principle of going through each other's phone is...?
Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?

I think the principle is that no matter what, we all have a tendency to be unfaithful, coupled with hiding porn she does not have a reason to trust me. She is looking to see if I'm still hiding it, or a possible relationship, or if I've been complaining or keeping secrets from her about our relationship via text messages.

As Markos said, I need to lead by example, I need to be ok with her seeing everything, because afterall there is nothing to hide.

I guess the annoyance came because shes paranoid that I might snoop and is deleting text messages, etc. It's one sided at this point in our M, but that's not reason to be angry.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Messy
I do believe Dr. Harley's advice to overcoming AO is to 'self-trigger' or short circuit the event when the anger feeling arrives.
I don't know what you mean by"self-trigger", or by "short circuit the event", but that's not what Dr Harley says.

Ok, I need a lesson here then smile I got these ideas from re-reading the AO article:
http://marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3401_angry.html

I will read the AO chapter tonight in LB... I'm missing the mark here.

Messy #2897890 04/26/17 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Ok, I need a lesson here then smile I got these ideas from re-reading the AO article:
http://marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3401_angry.html

I will read the AO chapter tonight in LB... I'm missing the mark here.
I see what you mean. In that article, he says:

"Most effective anger management training programs focus attention on the creation of short-circuiting habits. Whenever a person begins to feel angry, he or she practices a behavior that has been shown to prevent an outburst. In the beginning, the new behavior is a conscious choice, something that is done regardless of how it feels to do it. Walking away from a frustrating situation is one example of a behavior that can short-circuit an angry outburst. Another is to follow a routine that relaxes your muscles and lowers adrenalin in your system. Eventually, with practice, the behavior that has proven effective in short-circuiting an angry outburst becomes a habit. Whenever the person begins to feel angry, the habit kicks in and angry outbursts are overcome."

So, short-circuiting the event means constantly and routinely practicing new behaviours (habits) that cut off the angry outburst before it happens, such as walking away, and relaxing.

But markos was also asking you: who is the person that makes you angry?

It is DESPERATELY important that you find out, and use, the answer to that question. Without that answer, you will not be able to overcome anger.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
You have a right to your anger, Messy.

I don't think that's what Dr. Harley typically says about angry outbursts - that might be true in an academic sense (although some might debate it), but the important thing is to learn that angry outbursts always make your problem worse.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897895 04/26/17 01:07 PM
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You can feel however you wish. You dont have a right to outbursts. That is the distinction.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
But markos was also asking you: who is the person that makes you angry?

It is DESPERATELY important that you find out, and use, the answer to that question. Without that answer, you will not be able to overcome anger.

Ok, I see what you mean now. I guess my first reaction is to say WW is making me angry - but only because she isn't giving me what I want. Which means I need to come to terms with the fact that I can't force my WW to provide for me what I want her to provide. Sooo... in effect I'm causing myself to be angry by putting these expectations of SD on my WW. The right answer is my WW can choose to satisfy my needs, but I cant make it happen, so I'm angry because I want something I'm not getting. Is that where Dr. Harley would head?

Any good radio clips on this topic?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by apples123
You can feel however you wish. You dont have a right to outbursts. That is the distinction.
I really think that you're not helping, with this sort of advice. When it comes to anger, Dr Harley does not say anything that suggests that you have a right to your feelings. That kind of comment actually goes against the advice that we need to lean to relax in the face of frustrations. Dr Harley's advice to relax is focused on dispelling the feeling of anger, as well as on preventing the behaviour that manifests itself as an outburst.

A man who is having angry outbursts doesn't need to be told he has a right to his anger -- he already feels like he has right, that's why he is having AOs. He doesn't need that validation.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
You have a right to your anger, Messy. All betrayed spouses are confronted with the most intense of emotions, including anger, resentment, hurt, and sadness. Infidelity leaves scars on its victims.

But if you wish to make it through this having "aced the test" you need to be hyper vigilant of your impulses. Avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments at all costs. They feel good when you release them, but in the final analysis they do not help, and, worse, later you will regret having done them.

Do it right. Follow the plan. Keep improving yourself. Be the better person and you will win. It's mathematical.

Thank you for this. I do have an instinct to feel angry about what happened, but I have the choice to control my response... easier said than done given the intensity of the emotions.

Last edited by Messy; 04/26/17 01:24 PM.
Messy #2897899 04/26/17 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Messy
Originally Posted by SugarCane
But markos was also asking you: who is the person that makes you angry?

It is DESPERATELY important that you find out, and use, the answer to that question. Without that answer, you will not be able to overcome anger.

Ok, I see what you mean now. I guess my first reaction is to say WW is making me angry - but only because she isn't giving me what I want. Which means I need to come to terms with the fact that I can't force my WW to provide for me what I want her to provide. Sooo... in effect I'm causing myself to be angry by putting these expectations of SD on my WW. The right answer is my WW can choose to satisfy my needs, but I cant make it happen, so I'm angry because I want something I'm not getting. Is that where Dr. Harley would head?

Any good radio clips on this topic?

Thanks!

You're getting there.

Dr. Harley says that the only person that can make you angry is YOU. Your wife may frustrate you by what she does, or doesn't do. But you are the only person that can make yourself angry.

Read: How to Negotiate When You Are An Emotional Person

You must learn to calm down while you are still frustrated before it escalates to anger.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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