I also don't think this new proof is going to make much difference with your in-laws. They are who they are - enabling their wayward son which is pretty normal, sadly.

I think advice was given to you earlier in the thread about meddling in the affair that is applicable here. I will find it and be back.

Okay, but you are now posting about blackmailing your WH with this text evidence from the OWBH.

I think games like this could backfire on you -- nevermind this is not Plan B, as was pointed out by ML.

Aside from giving the OP's BS critical information about the affair they may not be aware of (this is after the affair has been propertly exposed), this advice is almost always applicable:

I agree.

I don't know if this is standard wayward thinking, but I know this is how things are for my WH. He is willing to stand up for the true love his affair and sacrifice everything in his life because he can not handle the shame of believing that he has done these things for any other reason. He knows with me a mirror will be held up to the reality of who he is and it is something he cannot face. OW accepts his lying and cheating as is so there is no need for self reflection. I knew once we separated WH would hang onto OW like a drowning man.

I agree with this, however I think there is something to be said of black and white evidence versus being told something. I believe it is easy for alot of people to dismiss my claims about WH because I am a "woman scorned" so it is assumed I will think the worst of him. The same would be true of anything said from OWH, of course he hates WH. I think it is important to have hard evidence that cannot be viewed as either of our biases. And my MIL did believe me when I told her these things and specifically asked for the texts I had because she knows WH will lie and needs the evidence to confront him. I just know with what I have it will be easier for WH to dismiss as "just chatting."


Ugh is there somewhere I can read how to quote?

[ quote ]
quotet text
[ /quote ]

Without spaces. So if you remove the first /, it will look good.

Yes it is standard. But it's also not your problem. That part, anyway.

Your only issue is to expect him to try to break your plan b, to try and drag you into his chaos, to be a reluctant and unreliable respondent in legal and parenting matters.

I think your plan would be stronger if you expect and accept this, rather than trying to negotiate and control it. You cant. Waywards are going to wayward NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. He's never going to say to himself: "Oh her exposures seem to be over! How happy I am in my affair as a result! I really must send her a thank you card, a blank maintainance cheque, and the custody plan of her choice". Nor is he going to respond to any kind of punishment, or bargaining chip.

Only rational solution seeking people who are seeking balance strive towards rewards and avoid punishment. The wayward is just trying to keep everything in a state of chaos. Think of the lab rats who respond to the intermittent reward pedal. Think of gamblers. The craziness is all part of the drug.

Your only move is no move. He brings his chaos to the house, you block him with a babysitter. He ups his wayward behaviour, you don't respond. Yes it's boring, and not at all Machiavellian; that's the point.

You have to delete any spare [/quote] except for the one at the end.

As for the 'woman scorned' business, those people are a dead loss you should not waste time on. Die hard sexists who don't change and actually support affair culture when it's the man who is just responding to the stress of living with a hysterical sub creature.

I also had people who were initially supportive, believing one confrontation would do the job. When the WW doubled down and refused to crumble? They gave up and enabled. As a WW will never crumble until the A is dead, they're always going to enable; unless the A is over and what good are they then?

I had no problem cutting loose enablers. My issue was I had supporters in his family who (understandably) were battling for his soul and I had to draw a line in my part there. They had to get their own intel and they did. They never required further proof. His refusing to abide by my plan B letter was proof enough for those who don't enable.

They have told you who they are. Believe them.

Thanks!

See these buttons on every post?

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Use the quote button on the end of the post that you want to quote.

The quote appears, fully formed. Delete any portion of the text that you DON'T want to quote, but leave the brackets untouched.

OWH just emailed me asking if I was with WH during lunch today, saying OW is convinced he was with me. hahahaha thats paranoia for you - especially considering I have only seen him 2x in 7 months!

Oh, and its her birthday today

OWH thinks he was with another woman, could be, but all the better. Then he truly cannot hide what he is.

How funny! But do you think she put him up to it?

You can really play with her head through him if you put your mind to it. Have you responded yet?

He said he wanted to know because if it wasn�t me it was another woman. I don�t think she put him up to it, but who knows.

I responded that he wasn�t with me (though yes, very tempting to say he was just to mess with her). I then asked if he showed her the hotel charges because if it wasn�t her it was other woman. He said she saw them but has not responded yet if she has admittted they were her.

I know this is me again trying to control the situation, but you all know if there is an opportunity like this I am going to be tempted to act. I'm a fighter, thats all there is to it. But I can control myself and if I need to back down I will.

Since OH is sharing what I tell with OW, and I think likely she is seeing our emails I want her to know in detail how WH has lied to her, at least recently. These are the things I want to write to him:

1) During my convo with WH in our backyard I just wanted to talk divorce and told him that, he was the one started to list all the reasons he loved me and I told him I didn't want to hear and he begged for me to hear.

2) I could tell in that convo he is getting tired of OW. He said she lacks emotional intelligence and that she is "more type A" then me. type A = controlling

3) At WH's apartment he did not tell me he loved OW (he said he did in the messages to me) but in fact told me it would not work between them, that he moved back to our county because he is trying to end it with her, and when I confronted him with knowing he was getting a new job outside of our county he told me he would go back to his job if I wanted. I did not want to hear anything else so i ran out and he screamed after me to come back and he would do what I wanted.

I also think that the affair is on the ropes and OH needs to double down himself. I think he needs to give her the SA checklist (i dont want him to know about this site yet, he will tell her) and i think he should start Plan B if she doesn't. I know me again trying to control this, but I'm posting here so you can see my thoughts, and shoot me down if necessary

If it were me, I would send him an email and put all this information in it. But I would exaggerate some things to drive her nuts. For example, weave together a story that goes something like this:

OWH, your last email got me to thinking about a few things that WH has said recently which makes me wonder if the affair isn't on the rocks. I strongly suspect he is moving on to a 3rd person because he is getting bored. For example, he told me he is getting tired of OW because she lacks "emotional intelligence" and is more of a type A than me. He doesn't like controlling behavior and he said its starting to turn him off. When I was at his house, out of the blue he said there is no way it would work out between he and OW and the reason he moved back to our county is because he is trying to end it with her.

When I brought up the divorce and the fact that I won't take him back unless he makes radical changes, he started to list all the reasons he loves me. I told him I didn't want to hear it because it will take much more than love to repair all this damage. Not interested!

Anyway, I thought I would share these thoughts with you, because I know you are hopeful.

Yeah this is a nice little Parthian shot which will not really disturb your peace any.

The advantage of a fortress is you can shoot out without worrying about shots in.

But am I interfering too much? WH will obviously take this communication as me fighting for him, and I am afraid of it contributing to his cake eating needs. And OW knows WH has lied and cheated on her many many times already, but it still doesn't stop her, so I dont know what good me interfering would really do. Though of course I love the momentary chaos is gives them.

You are supposed to fight the AFFAIR and that is what this is doing. I have no idea how you think it would come across as you "fighting for him and contributing to his cake eating??" That doesn't make any sense.

No, it's too subtle for that. The phrasing Melody Lane suggested is just you showing care to another betrayed spouse. The person who will be causing the ruckus is the BH, but how could you have guessed a husband would want to tell his wife when she is being used?

As for being seen as someone who opposes the affair, who knows and says openly that it's built on sand and not a good look for the father of your children; that's a fine stance for you to have anyway.