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My husband disclosed his affair 2 months ago and told me our marriage is over. At that point the affair had been on for only 2 and a half months, but he is madly in love. For the last two months we have been going back and forth and he has been leaving and coming back home but now he claims he is sure he wants to end it with me.

We have two young children and live abroad. He insists the kids and I should go back home. This would mean us living on different continents and he would not be able to visit often. (He claims he will but it really isn't easily doable because of the cost and distance of the trip.) I don't want to go and am still hoping for a change of heart, although he is in the fog and says all the usual WS stuff. I could stay here and live separately but we are in an expat bubble where the kids and I have nothing going for us in this situation. I am at home with them and we homeschool. I can't get a job because of the visa issues. No family members are here and all the friends are in the same situation of living with their spouses and children and I can't really count on them to help me out. For that reason the kids and I would be better off at home since there we would have family, friends and a normal life where I could get a job and put the kids into school, among other things. They know things are not right and are frightened, and they need love and stability that family would provide.

I am terrified of going because I fear the distance will contribute to ending the marriage. I am currently in Plan A and WS is responding well, and he is still living at home. So on the other hand the distance could bring him to his senses, which is what I'm hoping for. No guarantees, I understand that.

Any advice on my situation? I'm feeling pretty desperate.

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Originally Posted By: Franciska

I am terrified of going because I fear the distance will contribute to ending the marriage. I am currently in Plan A and WS is responding well, and he is still living at home. So on the other hand the distance could bring him to his senses, which is what I'm hoping for. No guarantees, I understand that.


Hi Franciska, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. I agree you should move home. Plan A is only supposed to last 3 weeks anyway and then you should move to Plan B. If you move home, he can follow you there to reconcile if he ends his affair and meets your conditions.

In the meantime, I would ask him to leave and go into a dark Plan B. Staying in touch with him like this makes the situaiton worse, because a) it tears you down emotionally and b) makes you look less attractive to him.

Quote:
I am currently in Plan A and WS is responding well,


Yes, because he is having his cake and eating it too. He is getting the best of both worlds so he has even less motivation to end his affair. I would ask him to leave, expose the affair wide and far and go into a dark Plan B while you make arrangements to move home.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Have you exposed the affair to anyone? This is a part of Plan A. Read the exposure link in MelodyLanes signature to get the details on how to do a proper exposure.

This includes exposing to your kids. They sound very confused, as they should be. Tell them the truth about the reason for your family falling apart. If you do not, kids will often blame themselves.

How does he know the OW? Is she a coworker?

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I have told people, including a couple of his colleagues, and yes, she works with him.

He doesn't want to end the affair and unfortunately I have no conditions. My Plan A thus consists of putting deposits in the Love Bank and hoping that he will miss me and the kids when we are gone and eventually seek us. I don't know if his affair will last. The girl sounds a bit immature and all over the place emotionally, from what he told me. She will be dealing with his baggage, and he already feels guilty and ashamed. And he will miss the kids badly. I suspect the bubble will burst eventually. He also has a huge attraction to me and I doubt she knows about what has been going on between us in the last few weeks in terms of intimacy. We can't keep our hands off each other. I guess this is not uncommon from what I've read.

He expects me to leave before the end of July. I'm dreading it and have not picked the date yet.

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Have you exposed to his workplace?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Go now while your account in his love bank is high. If you are in the area due to his job, his company may be able to help you.

He should not be a part of the separation planning and you should not discuss it with him.If he can go ahead an d sign paperwork saying you can take the kids out if the country, get it done while he is foggy. (only do this if required, some places only require it if you have already filed custody agreements.) Type up the plan B letter and leave it on the table for him the day you leave.

See an attorney tomorrow because you will need spousal support and international divorce/separation and child support can be complicated. Start gathering financial records. If he is a high earner or you don't have accesses, you may need a forensic accountant to look at things.

Start looking for someone to act as IM.

And for heaven's sake, don't tell him about your strategy or this website.

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We haven't signed any paperwork. I get the kids, he will support us. He knows I'll take him to court if he doesn't. We have agreed on things.
He is the type who would not respond well to me doing things in a formal way. That would destroy everything. I also can't go no contact after I leave. He responds to me when I'm engaging him, always has. Not communicating would make things worse. I'll need to have some channels open.

I'm more concerned about the emotional aspect of things. All of this has happened over night, it's been such a shock to me. I'm still struggling to believe this is happening. Can a marriage recover in this situation? He is determined that we have no future. Whan on earth can I do, if anything?

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Originally Posted By: Franciska
We haven't signed any paperwork. I get the kids, he will support us. He knows I'll take him to court if he doesn't. We have agreed on things.
He is the type who would not respond well to me doing things in a formal way. That would destroy everything. I also can't go no contact after I leave. He responds to me when I'm engaging him, always has. Not communicating would make things worse. I'll need to have some channels open.


Communicating directly with him will make things much worse and make it less likely you will ever reconcile. You can't save your marriage if you enable him. First off, it makes you less attractive and secondly, it will tear you down emotionally and physically very quickly to be competing with another woman for him. Competing for him like that makes YOU less attractive. The OW is not competing for him, after all. His "type" is a wayward spouse and this is what works best in a bad situation. You might feel you know him, but we know waywards. check this out---->
What Are Plan A and Plan B?by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D


Quote:
I'm more concerned about the emotional aspect of things. All of this has happened over night, it's been such a shock to me. I'm still struggling to believe this is happening. Can a marriage recover in this situation? He is determined that we have no future. Whan on earth can I do, if anything?


Separate and go into Plan B. It won't save your marriage but it will save your mental stability while his affair dies. If you remain in contact with him, he will have the best of both worlds and the affair could go on for years. Women do not fare well under such circumstances, as it often leads to nervous breakdowns and autoimmune diseases.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Another important point is that staying in direct contact gives him complete control of the situation. He is a fogged out wayward who is high on an affair. That is like getting into the back seat with drunk driving. He will surely drive you off the road and into the ditch.

Plan B puts you in complete control. Removing yourself from the scene places all the focus on his affair, which makes it collapse sooner. At the same time, it gives you the opportunity to regain your balance by escaping the trauma. We would recommend you expose to his workplace too. [read Exposure 101]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Ok, so when I go and if I don't communicate but leave it to a third party, this would help? I can't go into Plan B while I'm here. I will be going home in about 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane


Communicating directly with him will make things much worse and make it less likely you will ever reconcile. You can't save your marriage if you enable him.

Separate and go into Plan B. It won't save your marriage but it will save your mental stability while his affair dies. If you remain in contact with him, he will have the best of both worlds and the affair could go on for years.


Why will going into Plan B potentially help the affair to die, while remaining in contact can help it last longer? I have read the link about Plans A and B many times, but I don't understand why going no contact can help the affair die more quickly.

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Originally Posted By: Franciska
[

Why will going into Plan B potentially help the affair to die, while remaining in contact can help it last longer? I have read the link about Plans A and B many times, but I don't understand why going no contact can help the affair die more quickly.


Staying in contact with him has the effect of getting his needs met in both places so he has no motivation to end his affair. He can drag such a desirable set up out for years. However, when you leave the scene, all of the problems in the affair come to light much quicker, hastening the death of the affair. Affairs are based on deceit, thoughtless and selfishness, so those traits eventually emerge, killing the affair.

Also, you make it much less likely he will reconcile with you for the reasons I gave above. Hanging around waiting for crumbs makes you much less attractive and you become even less so once the affair begins taking a toll on your mental and physical health.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Franciska
Ok, so when I go and if I don't communicate but leave it to a third party, this would help? I can't go into Plan B while I'm here. I will be going home in about 3 weeks.


Here is a good thread about Plan B:
Plan B


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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How old are your children?

Have you told them?

Have you exposed to his workplace?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Melody Lane,

thank you for the thread link. I will read it now.

Brain Hurts,
I have talked to a couple of his colleagues that I know, but have not exposed it in the workplace. But people know. The boss will find out in a matter of days.
The children are 5 and 7 and I am shielding them from the truth. I don't want to traumatise them. Shielding them is the most important thing right now. They will know the truth eventually, be it in a few months or years. But I don't want to tell them now. They are too young and fragile.

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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Have you read this Exposure 101


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Have you read this Exposure 101


About to right now.

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
[quote=Franciska]

Here is a good thread about Plan B:
Plan B


This was a helpful thread, I understand better what it's all about.

However, he is madly in love and the affair is still fresh. Convinced we are finished and we were never really happy. The usual. There are no hints that he might be interested in even keeping me as an option, even though he is loving the attention and care from me and can't keep his hands off me. All of this is me going through hysterical bonding and using it as Plan A and depositing units in the bank. I suspect the OW has no clue, and that he is already keeping big secrets from her about the nature of our relationship.

So to get to the point: what is the purpose of me going dark if he has told me several times he is not going to end the affair and does not want to work on the marriage? Does making the offer to wait until they are done make me look stupid? Is there a chance that the reality of getting nothing from me will actually make an impact and make him rethink things at some point?

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Originally Posted By: Franciska
Melody Lane,

thank you for the thread link. I will read it now.

Brain Hurts,
I have talked to a couple of his colleagues that I know, but have not exposed it in the workplace. But people know. The boss will find out in a matter of days.


It is real important he finds it out from you and not from your H and his girlfriend. They will lie and spin the truth. i would move fast and get the truth to them asap. Use the suggestions in the exposure 101 thread.

Quote:
The children are 5 and 7 and I am shielding them from the truth. I don't want to traumatise them. Shielding them is the most important thing right now. They will know the truth eventually, be it in a few months or years. But I don't want to tell them now. They are too young and fragile.


No, they are not. They are not little idiots who can't deal with truth. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.

Dr. Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.



Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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