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Originally Posted by Franciska
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=Franciska]

Here is a good thread about Plan B:
Plan B

This was a helpful thread, I understand better what it's all about.

However, he is madly in love and the affair is still fresh. Convinced we are finished and we were never really happy. The usual. There are no hints that he might be interested in even keeping me as an option, even though he is loving the attention and care from me and can't keep his hands off me. All of this is me going through hysterical bonding and using it as Plan A and depositing units in the bank. I suspect the OW has no clue, and that he is already keeping big secrets from her about the nature of our relationship.

So to get to the point: what is the purpose of me going dark if he has told me several times he is not going to end the affair and does not want to work on the marriage? Does making the offer to wait until they are done make me look stupid? Is there a chance that the reality of getting nothing from me will actually make an impact and make him rethink things at some point?

Are you even reading my posts? I believe I have explained the reasons for Plan B about 3-4 times now. If you aren't going to take the advice, i will stop giving it and stop wasting my personal time here.

I already KNOW he is not ending the affair and does not want to work on the marriage. If he ended his affair and wanted to work on the marriage, then Plan B would not be necessary!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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1. Never lie to your children. It makes the world a place they can't trust. They dont need all the details but they do need the truth. Tell them something like Daddy has a girlfriend but that isn't something married people are allowed to do.

2. His affair gains support when you are there, taking care of all the domestic stuff plus extra nookie. You are they third leg of the affair stool. Remove yourself and the thing topples. They often dont want to end the affair until they know what's missing.

3. Plan B protects you so you aren't so hurt you cannot consider reconciliation when the affair ends. Dr. Harley recommends this lasts no more than 2 years of waiting, at which point you file for divorce. You only take him back under specific conditions.

4. See a lawyer anyway. You at least need legal counsel, even if things play out as planned. But what if they don't?

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Thanks Apples.

I will tell the kids a more gentle version of the truth, avoiding certain language that would hurt them.

Plan B definitely sounds like it would protect me. I am already taking anti-anxiety meds in order to cope. I need to get away from this situation and am now looking forward to going home in a way.

I got legal advice and will not only rely on his word and good will.

I know I keep repeating the same question, but I really don't understand why the affair is likely to topple once I remove myself from the situation. I'm new to all of this and have done some reading, but don't have as much insight as other posters on the forum. To me it seems that the two of them will then be free to enjoy their life together without my interference. Ideal scenario, right? I'm sure he'll miss the kids and maybe even miss me to a degree, but is that enough to fasten the end of an affair? Apparently, they are madly in love, and it can take a while for people to wake up to reality. Am I missing something here? Sorry for repeating myself, but I genuinely don't understand how this works.

Last edited by Franciska; 06/26/17 12:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Are you even reading my posts? I believe I have explained the reasons for Plan B about 3-4 times now. If you aren't going to take the advice, i will stop giving it and stop wasting my personal time here.

I'm reading all of your posts. I'm sorry I have annoyed you but I am freshly betrayed, confused, and still trying to accept my new reality. I don't understand how all of this is supposed to work, even though I keep reading things over and over again.

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I have now read the whole thread about three times and things are starting to click. Thank you all for your patience and advice.

So basically I will be meeting some of his needs simply by being in contact about finances and kids? Simply by existing in his life and communicating about a few limited topics?

I'm niw thinking about getting out of here in two weeks time. I can't drag it out longer than that, I'll go crazy.

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Hi Franciska, I am in a situation with some similar features to yours. We live abroad in an ex-pat bubble and I found out my husband was having an affair with a work colleague in January this year. I threw him out in February.

Somethings from my experience might help you:

1) Definitely expose at the work place, including directly to the head office if you can. Do you have evidence that they have used work time or company cell phones to conduct the affair? Do you know if they have spent the night together during company field trips/conferences/workshops etc? My WH's employer was VERY disapproving of my husband's behaviour and use of company time and equipment to conduct his affair and this disapproval had a big impact on him, even though I was not aware of the sanctions they took against him at the time. The employer was also very helpful in supporting me to leave the country with the children. If you are an expatriate spouse with children, the employer has a duty of care towards you, not just the person they employ directly. For US companies, this duty of care is a legally enforceable obligation.

2) No contact is crucial because otherwise your spouse still feels like his family is there. He is having his cake and eating it. Your WH will only feel the real effects of his marriage-wrecking behaviour if he actually experiences the loss of you and the children. Contact maintains the illusion he has his family. And contact that includes shouting/arguing/emotional discussions about the marriage or future (which NO ONE enjoys) just maintains the association between you and things that are not fun for him. For him to want to come back, he must associate you and the kids with good things. And since you can't really give that to him right now, no contact is the best option. No contact will also help you enormously to feel calm, in control and to focus on making yourself happy - which makes you much more attractive in general. I have done a terrible job of having no contact and it has taken its toll on me. Get an intermediary to communicate directly with him about the necessities, but otherwise try not to communicate with him at all.

3) Try to focus on the big picture rather than all the emotions swirling around at the moment. Look at the reality of the situation. If your husband is an ex-pat having an affair at his workplace in a foreign country, I presume that he has a limited contract period in this place. The relationship will be like a holiday romance. But at some point he will leave this location and move home or somewhere else. It is very unlikely this new relationship will survive that transition, even if it lasts until that point.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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PS. I have found the more "formal" your approach to separating and moving with the kids, the more impact it can have on your spouse. Remember he knows you very well and he has been manipulating you and concealing things from you during his affair, so he feels as though he can control you. By going through formal processes involving lawyers, the employer, or any other relevant third parties, you take away his sense of control of the situation and make clear the severity of what is happening - and that will contribute to waking him up from the fog.

Do not be scared about damaging your chances for reconciliation by taking a tough stance on infidelity. You need to show him through your actions that infidelity is unacceptable to you. The marriage can recover, but you must demonstrate that you will not accept this behavior and cheating will lead to separation and divorce.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by Franciska
I know I keep repeating the same question, but I really don't understand why the affair is likely to topple once I remove myself from the situation. I'm new to all of this and have done some reading, but don't have as much insight as other posters on the forum. To me it seems that the two of them will then be free to enjoy their life together without my interference. Ideal scenario, right? I'm sure he'll miss the kids and maybe even miss me to a degree, but is that enough to fasten the end of an affair? Apparently, they are madly in love, and it can take a while for people to wake up to reality. Am I missing something here? Sorry for repeating myself, but I genuinely don't understand how this works.
You pick his dirty laundry from next to the laundry basket, feed him, take care of the kids. She gets the guy in freshly cleaned (by you) clothes who is fed (by you) and taken care of (by you). With her, he is in fantasy land. She doesn't have to take care of the children and is not devastated by his betrayal.

In short, she has the long end of the straw and he has two women who meet his needs.

He is so used to you meeting some of his needs, he doesn't know you are meeting them. OW is not meeting all of his needs.

If you stop meeting those needs, not all of his needs will be met and he will be less content. The fantasy wears of and OW will see the less attractive version of your husband (who has to wash and iron his own clothes, or worse, expect her to do that).
She won't meet the needs you have met all those years as well as you did, so there will be trouble in paradise.

The beauty of MB is that it speeds up the inevitable (breaking up the affair or discovering WH will not commit to recovery), while minimizing the damage to the betrayed spouse.
The longer the affair lasts, the more it will effect you. You staying in this situation will not urge him to change anything. If you take yourself out of the equasion, the fantasy affair will change faster to not so fantasy reality.

Last edited by goody2shoes; 06/26/17 03:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you read this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Franciska
I know I keep repeating the same question, but I really don't understand why the affair is likely to topple once I remove myself from the situation.

It won't topple the affair. Nothing will topple the affair except the natural course of events. Some things will help, such as exposure, but you can't topple the affair. What you can do is make the affair last much longer by continuing to stay in contact with him.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Franciska
Thanks Apples.

I will tell the kids a more gentle version of the truth, avoiding certain language that would hurt them.

By "gentle" we hope you mean to tell them the TRUTH. They need to be told their father is committing adultery with another woman and you are very deeply hurt by this. Your kids are harmed by lies and infidelity, not the truth.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Franciska
Thanks Apples.

I will tell the kids a more gentle version of the truth, avoiding certain language that would hurt them.

By "gentle" we hope you mean to tell them the TRUTH. They need to be told their father is committing adultery with another woman and you are very deeply hurt by this. Your kids are harmed by lies and infidelity, not the truth.


My own experience is that children usually know. Children are world class snoopers. Mine knew there was something wrong but did not know exactly what as my ex husband was incredibly secretive. They literally cried with relief when I told them. Wayward husband's sister told me that they knew all about their father's (my children's grandfather's) tomcatting and assumed that was normal behaviour because their mother said nothing. That is how it cascades down the generations.


3 adult children
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Now remarried, thank you MB
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=Franciska]

It won't topple the affair. Nothing will topple the affair except the natural course of events. Some things will help, such as exposure, but you can't topple the affair. What you can do is make the affair last much longer by continuing to stay in contact with him.

Gotcha. Plan B it will be then. Thanks.

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Chalk and Cheese,

thank you for your imput as an expat BS. I think the expat bubble contributes to these things. Everything about our life here is completely detached from the reality of local people and their world. We've been here 5 years and I'm truly sick of it all.

Living Well,

how old were your kids?

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Finally some clarity. We went to see a marriage counselor earlier. He agreed to go because I asked nicely, but told me in advance his mind was made up. He had a 1on 1 with the counselor, who later told me in my private session that WS is not exactly sure as he claims and is emotionally all over the place. He thought that were it not for the pull of the OW the WH would be willing to work on our marriage.

When we got home I asked him why he never suggested marriage counseling to me since he was so deeply unhappy in our marriage, or addressed his problems in a mature way. He said he was not deeply unhappy, but his feelings for the OW woke him up. The story from a few days ago was different - us not being compatible, he felt lonely, the usual. So the kids and I are being dumped for an affair that has been going on for less than 4 months. This is why he is destroying our family.

I cannot wait to go into Plan B. He needs to taste what he has lost. What an immature, selfish jerk.
I am so angry with him right now.

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Originally Posted by Franciska
He said he was not deeply unhappy, but his feelings for the OW woke him up. The story from a few days ago was different - us not being compatible, he felt lonely, the usual.

He doesn't know his feelings at all because he is high on an affair. It is an addiction very much like alcohol or narcotics so he will be all over the place. I wouldn't expect him to be rational about his feelings because he is very much like a falling down drunk right now.

Did you see our posts about exposing the affair at his workplace?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Instructions from Dr Harley here: here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I've seen the exposure material and will take a few steps. I'm so furious now.

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Originally Posted by Franciska
Living Well,

how old were your kids?

The youngest was 17. The affairs had been going on since she was born but it took that long for me to discover them. I'm not stupid and I work in CS but he was very, very careful. The first affair was with a work colleague who lived 3,000 miles away. The OWs got closer to home as he got bolder.

When Wayward Husband and his sister first found out about their father's infidelities, they were the age of your children. My life would have been so different if their mother had taken the action we are now recommending to you.


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Originally Posted by living_well
When Wayward Husband and his sister first found out about their father's infidelities, they were the age of your children. My life would have been so different if their mother had taken the action we are now recommending to you.

I understand what you're saying. These things are awful. My dad was also a cheater and I found out in my early 20s. I felt disgusted with him.

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