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So here goes...I have been married 17 years. With ups and downs along the way. 3 kids, 15,13,10. In 2013 / 2014. My wife became distant and I became curious. She had become close with the husband of a couple we socialized with. Our kids went to school together and we hung out as couples and group settings. They just seemed to cozy and got along well. I was in denial, but I started to suspect something was up. So end of the summer 2014, I went through an old phone that was just deactive two months prior and discovered naked photos of this guy. Also a photo of a card he gave her. I was angry. I felt something was wrong for a while, but had no proof up till that point. I immediately confronted her. She admitted to an emotional affair with minimal physical contact. I confronted him and he swore that it was alot if texting and never sex. We discussed options and sought counseling and decided to stay together with the kids in mind. She never truly committed or seemed remorseful. I dropped him and it appeared he and his wife were out of our lives. Fast forward 2016 / 2017. I sensed there was something wrong again. Convinced myself there was no way she would end up back with him. He is still married and thought no chance he would risk that. I sensed my wife started lying about being at work or goong out with work friends, who I really don't know. But the night of the week was usually the same night. But only once a month or so. So last week out of no where A friend approached me and said. I have something to tell you. I think I have seen your wife with a guy in a certain parking lot every morning this past week. He described her car and then I knew it. The location was close to his place of work and my friend described his uniform. I showed my friend a Facebook picture and told him what kind of car the guy drove. He confirmed it. It all made sense. I was in shock, but not completely caught off guard. So here is my question. Do I have enough to confront her at this point? Am I in denial that this is anything but over? I never wanted this. I really wanted to be in my kids lives on a full time basis. Not to mention the financial complications of divorce. We have our primary home and second vacation home. The relationship has definitely had it troubles. But I'm sick to think that my life is now upside down. Had to believe we will be not together after 20+ years. And lastly, Infidelity or not. A man will loose drastically in divorce. So now what? Lost!

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Hi CF, sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. I would hire a PI right away. A good PI can get you everything you need fairly quickly. Please do that and then come back and we will give you next steps. Don't ask or confront her yet.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Realistically after the first go around how much evidence do I need? I have already seen and imagined enough to be SICK. I don't need photos of sex to [censored] me up anymore. The fact that they were seen together is not enough to confront? One more thing. The first time around she told her father and we all sat down and discussed the situation. That is when we decided to not damage the childrens lives, since they attend school with the other guys kids. It made sense. That would definitely be painful to a child. I have read alot about the exposure 101 and agree to the idea of killing it. I know my wife well enough. She is alot more convincing and shrewd then me. That will be all spun in how bad a person I was to her and can't blame her for the damage I have inflicted on her. That group of friends that in included this guy never asked me why we didn't socialize with that couple anymore. Even though at a few times we would be at the same party or event. Even the wife I crossed paths with. It was clear I hated her husband and was stand off'ish with her. She never said a word. And after a few drinks. I contemplated saying something, but held my toungue. I was always waiting for the... So how come you and so and so don't talk anymore. Never happened. My wife also has a core group of friends from childhood. I know one of them knew about the affair. And was her go to person. Im sure she still knows the current status. An exposure to that group will not shock anyone. I have a feeling they have had their own affairs. Just sick to my stomach and don't hide emotions well. Not sure I can play the game. She is currently out of town with our kids. So although they are probably in contact. I know they are not together. If i got the information prior to the end of the school year I would try an Ah Hah moment snd catch them. But that won't be easy now that the summer is here. She does not work in the summer and is usually at the second home with the kids. We had family vacations planned this summer and not sure I can just go with the flow. Lastly, she knew i was with my friend last weekend and he is a no filter kind of guy. (He wasn't completely sure that She did not see him in his work truck). She is the complete opposite of naive. Sharp!! She may already suspect that I heard about what was witnessed and covering her tracks. She was getting sloppy. I have questioned where abouts on long coffee pick ups and random work responsibilities. Like.... Oh. I just have to get some paperwork signed or going for a smoke which he did too. She knows my suspicions were up with the questioning. She probably just thought i was too chicken to look deeper and didn't want to really want to know. Obviously the signs were there and the lies too. Just sick to my stomach!!

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Basically, you swept this under the rug the first time. You did not expose but rather covered up for her and shielded her from any consequences. You did not change anything about your life and continued to associate with OM (even if you were no longer friends he was still around and available). It does not seem like you installed any EPs or changed your lifestyle in a way to make it affair proof. What you did not realize the first time, is that affairs are addictions. You relied on your wife's sense of right and wrong, her rational thought process, to do the right thing and end it. But you have learned the hard way that this is the equivalent of relying on a heroin addict to just quit because it is bad for them. It does not work.

You have the choice now of doing this the right way, or doing it your way again. You are already feeling the sting from doing it your way, and I'm sorry to say my friend that you will continue to feel the pain for years if you do not change your plan of attack here.

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Expose now before she has time to spin. Don't ask her, just do it.

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Your first order of business is to get evidence of what is going on. You can certainly try a keylogger on her phone, VAR in her car, etc. but if she really is that good at covering her tracks a PI will get the evidence easiest perhaps.

This evidence is not for you to confront her. There is no reason to confront her, she already knows she is having an affair. This is to use as you do a thorough exposure. You want to have the facts when you expose so she cannot spin the story. This is a long term entrenched affair at this point, and yes you are being naive to think otherwise. You cannot afford to keep this a secret and sweep it under the rug again. You have seen the results of doing this the first time, it did not work. You have to do a full blown exposure this time including to your children to stand any chance of saving your marriage. If you are not willing to do this, I do not have any hope for your marriage.

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Of course her father and her thought it was a good idea to not expose. No one who acts immorally wants to advertise it to the world, because it is shameful and embarrassing. As it should be. And if they don't expose, they don't have to suffer any consequences, which it sounds like she didn't.

Living a lie is NOT however the best thing for your kids. It is NOT protecting them. They are living in this family during this traumatic time, during this state of discord, and are being told lies about the cause of that discord. You see, they are hurt by the AFFAIR, not the truth. They are damaged by the affair whether they know the reason or not.

By the way, exposure is not something you talk to your wayward wife about, or get her permission for. NO wayward is going to think this is a good idea. You get the evidence and you expose without even letting her know you know. If she knows in advance she will just spin the story as you already said.

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I have no idea what the future holds, either way its ugly. This exposure action may cause severe financial complications as well. We have two homes and I am 25 years into a job that I have a large pension % to protect. I need that pension to live the rest of my life. NY is NOT a friendly divorce state even in infidelity circumstances. (Often friends use the term "cheaper to keep her"). I have see many coworkers through the years devastated financially to the point they are seeing for much leas than half of what they earn. And then upon retirement they have to give half of their pension to the ex for the rest of their lives. Causing them to stay working way past their maximum pension % credit time just to avoid giving up the pension. So yes, I see the exposure as a way to bring light to the situation and end it, but it will create intense hostility due to embarrassment (for all involved). Does anyone have a story or comment that this full blown exposure caused a major legal battle causing sever financial consequence? At this point is a confrontation, separation and a mediator to disolve the assets a possibility? That is one regret and it was truly financial and my kids who stopped me, but we should have seperated the first time around. )Still not sure how I will maintain the two homes and my independent living expenses). A test of seperation "may" have created a sense of what it would be like apart. As was said in the counseling. She loves me, but seems beacuse of past problems was currently not in love with me. I realize I was stupid to think she would have a conscience, but once her father was involved I believed that she would not risk further embarrassment especially for our kids. Also the other guy is married as well a prominent professional . Does he have no fear of consequence? His family? His wife is much more naive and dependent on him. Everyone is different. Mw is a strong willed and independent person, that trait I truly respected. She was always a step and a half on everyone elses wives and girlfriends. And my friends knew it. Like I have said. (Sharp, smart, with a personality that can get people to open up and talk). She also has a large support network (friends / family) as opposed to me. My parents are deceased and Im an only child. Friends, but not sure they are a complete support structure with their own lives and issues. May sound pathetic, but its reality. I am fairly certain. If I go your route. There will be much embarrassment for all involved (good and bad), hostility, and financial revenge. She is the type that if you cross her or back her in a corner, She will spin. Even lie or embelish to protect herself. Trust me. She is not the person to roll over and be walked over easily. I have a good relationship with her parents and her father knows her pretty well and is honest about the type of person she is as well. And he did not over protect her!!. He truly felt he was protecting all involved. Especially the kids.

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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
I have no idea what the future holds, either way its ugly. This exposure action may cause severe financial complications as well. We have two homes and I am 25 years into a job that I have a large pension % to protect. I need that pension to live the rest of my life. NY is NOT a friendly divorce state even in infidelity circumstances. (Often friends use the term "cheaper to keep her"). I have see many coworkers through the years devastated financially to the point they are seeing for much leas than half of what they earn. And then upon retirement they have to give half of their pension to the ex for the rest of their lives. Causing them to stay working way past their maximum pension % credit time just to avoid giving up the pension. So yes, I see the exposure as a way to bring light to the situation and end it, but it will create intense hostility due to embarrassment (for all involved). Does anyone have a story or comment that this full blown exposure caused a major legal battle causing sever financial consequence? At this point is a confrontation, separation and a mediator to disolve the assets a possibility? That is one regret and it was truly financial and my kids who stopped me, but we should have seperated the first time around. )Still not sure how I will maintain the two homes and my independent living expenses). A test of seperation "may" have created a sense of what it would be like apart. As was said in the counseling. She loves me, but seems beacuse of past problems was currently not in love with me. I realize I was stupid to think she would have a conscience, but once her father was involved I believed that she would not risk further embarrassment especially for our kids. Also the other guy is married as well a prominent professional . Does he have no fear of consequence? His family? His wife is much more naive and dependent on him. Everyone is different. Mw is a strong willed and independent person, that trait I truly respected. She was always a step and a half on everyone elses wives and girlfriends. And my friends knew it. Like I have said. (Sharp, smart, with a personality that can get people to open up and talk). She also has a large support network (friends / family) as opposed to me. My parents are deceased and Im an only child. Friends, but not sure they are a complete support structure with their own lives and issues. May sound pathetic, but its reality. I am fairly certain. If I go your route. There will be much embarrassment for all involved (good and bad), hostility, and financial revenge. She is the type that if you cross her or back her in a corner, She will spin. Even lie or embelish to protect herself. Trust me. She is not the person to roll over and be walked over easily. I have a good relationship with her parents and her father knows her pretty well and is honest about the type of person she is as well. And he did not over protect her!!. He truly felt he was protecting all involved. Especially the kids.

So, what route do you want to go down, if you will not take the route that Marriage Builders recommends?


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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
I never wanted this. I really wanted to be in my kids lives on a full time basis. Not to mention the financial complications of divorce. We have our primary home and second vacation home. The relationship has definitely had it troubles. But I'm sick to think that my life is now upside down. Had to believe we will be not together after 20+ years. And lastly, Infidelity or not. A man will loose drastically in divorce. So now what? Lost!

Are you saying that you'd be willing to say nothing, and let the affair continue, in order to protect the life you have now - including living with your kids full-time, and maintaining your financial situation?

If you're willing to do that, then you're free to do that. You don't need anyone's advice, or permission, to let things continue as they are.

We would just point out, though, that if her affair continues, she could divorce you anyway. There is always the chance that she will end the marriage in order to be with him.


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So there is only one way to do it on this site? Blow it up as big as possible!!! Let the chips fall where they may? No concern with the consequences? Financially or otherwise?

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No. Never said to not confront. That must happen!! First I was curious if I had enough? I can not put an app physically on her phone. I could possibly have her followed. No access to thousand of dollars for PI expenses. Not happening. And I only reading one outcome. Total embarrassment for all. And possible remose. Of course I want it to end!!! Does anyone see what I am trying to say. Major complications, financial and otherwise? Who knows. Have people ever heard of nasty, contested mud slinging divorces. That last for years and cost insane dollar amounts. Because I have. Ok great. She is exposed for an affair. That will blow over in public opinion in time. The parties involved. Including the kids will be affected forever.

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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
No. Never said to not confront. That must happen!! First I was curious if I had enough? I can not put an app physically on her phone. I could possibly have her followed. No access to thousand of dollars for PI expenses. Not happening. And I only reading one outcome. Total embarrassment for all. And possible remose. Of course I want it to end!!! Does anyone see what I am trying to say. Major complications, financial and otherwise? Who knows. Have people ever heard of nasty, contested mud slinging divorces. That last for years and cost insane dollar amounts. Because I have. Ok great. She is exposed for an affair. That will blow over in public opinion in time. The parties involved. Including the kids will be affected forever.

Are you saying that you're not willing to expose this affair?


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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
So there is only one way to do it on this site? Blow it up as big as possible!!! Let the chips fall where they may? No concern with the consequences? Financially or otherwise?

Have you read the Exposure 101 thread? the first post in there contains quotes from Dr Harley, who founded the Marriage Builders programme, explaining why he recommends exposure. He recommends exposure as the first step towards ending an affair.

Please read that first post, and come back and tell us what you think.


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I read it. Send everyone a message of the situation. Expose her sounds great if no one has had a bad experience with this method? Is it not possible to make it worse for all involved? Trying to be objective

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My concern with this method is the aftermath. Of course I want it to end. Not sure where you live, but the pain now is severe enough. Walking around town and working in the town I live with snickering and gossip does not sound like it will help me. That is what my area is like. The entire town won't throw a scarlet letter on her. She is well liked. Some will sympathize and say they must have been in a bad marriage. That is how people think around here. People won't turn on her long term. Sure the other guys wife won't be happy. My wife may be a emabarrased by that.l, but that will subside with time. I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option. My kids will be mortified in public. I am concerned it will start an even more nasty war. A reltaliation of lies and false narratives of what led to justify her behavior.

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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
A friend approached me and said. I have something to tell you. I think I have seen your wife with a guy in a certain parking lot every morning this past week. He described her car and then I knew it. The location was close to his place of work and my friend described his uniform. I showed my friend a Facebook picture and told him what kind of car the guy drove. He confirmed it. It all made sense.

You have enough to be able to say that she is seeing a man that she earlier confessed to having an affair with. You have enough to be able to say that she broke her word to you that she would not see him again. And by the way, this affair was certainly physical - they had sex. You need to stop being in denial and face the truth about that.

The most important person you need to tell is this man's wife. You say you "dropped him", but it sounds as if you must know where she lives.

Exposure is not a case of "letting the chips fall where they may". You should expose to people who need to know about this affair - i.e. his wife, and your own children. They are the most directly affected and they need to know what is going on in their lives. If you had old the other man's wife (OMW) when this first happened, there is a good chance that between you, you could have made sure that there was no opportunity for this affair to continue in secret. If you tell her now, she will raise holy hell with her husband and make him choose - and he will choose to stay with her. He does not want to leave his wife, who meets most (possibly all) of his emotional needs, and his kids, whom he loves and does not want to separate from, and his home, to live in a rented apartment with your wife and her kids, when they visit. That situation is not sexy, and it is not romantic, and he knows this. He is a typical, cake-eating married man who wants his bread buttered on both sides - but if he has to settle for one side only, it will be the side with his wife and kids.

When your wife learns that he threw her under the bus and weaselled his way back into his marriage, she will see that all she was to him was a piece of (what Donald Trump said), and she will see that she was used, and is a fool. At that point, you will have a chance of convincing her to embark on a programme of recovery - which will mean moving away from the area where you live now, as an urgent step. As long as the affair partners live within easy travelling distance of each other, the affair will be on and off for years. He won't leave his wife for your wife, but he will grab a quickie whenever one is convenient.

You also need to expose to family who care about your wife and will put pressure on her to end the affair. You will gain moral support from them, once they know. The key family members are her parents and siblings, and yours. (I've already stressed the importance of telling your kids.)

With the information that you have about the parking lot meetings, it would be easy enough for you to spy on them yourself, if you can stay hidden. Also, a digital voice recorder, velcro-ed to a hidden part of the interior of her car, would be a cheap and quick way of getting firmer evidence.

Honestly, this isn't rocket science. With the information you already have, you can get a lot more, very easily.


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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
My concern with this method is the aftermath. Of course I want it to end. Not sure where you live, but the pain now is severe enough. Walking around town and working in the town I live with snickering and gossip does not sound like it will help me. That is what my area is like. The entire town won't throw a scarlet letter on her. She is well liked. Some will sympathize and say they must have been in a bad marriage. That is how people think around here. People won't turn on her long term. Sure the other guys wife won't be happy. My wife may be a emabarrased by that.l, but that will subside with time. I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option. My kids will be mortified in public. I am concerned it will start an even more nasty war. A reltaliation of lies and false narratives of what led to justify her behavior.

Affairs thrive on secrecy. When the affair is exposed, it dies regardless of the reaction of the people who hear about it. The allure of the affair is gone.

The point of exposure isn't to get people to "turn" on your wife, long term or short term. The point is to kill the affair.

Quote:
I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option.

Your marriage will likely never recover, then.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
My concern with this method is the aftermath. Of course I want it to end. Not sure where you live, but the pain now is severe enough. Walking around town and working in the town I live with snickering and gossip does not sound like it will help me. That is what my area is like. The entire town won't throw a scarlet letter on her. She is well liked. Some will sympathize and say they must have been in a bad marriage. That is how people think around here. People won't turn on her long term. Sure the other guys wife won't be happy. My wife may be a emabarrased by that.l, but that will subside with time. I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option. My kids will be mortified in public. I am concerned it will start an even more nasty war. A reltaliation of lies and false narratives of what led to justify her behavior.

Well, if all you do is tell the whole town (which is not what we recommend) and then stay in exactly the same situation, allowing the embarrassment to fade for her but not for you, then yes, your exposure will have been ineffective, and you'll be living for a long time with snickering and gossip.

If, however, you expose to his wife and your kids, and you ask close family on both sides for help, and then when your wife goes ballistic you tell her that you want to save the marriage and that this begins with moving right away from that area, and cutting off all avenues of contact with OM, the aftermath will be very different.

Wouldn't your close family rally round to help you? Don't your kids' grandparents want to see the kids grow up in a happy, stable home? Wouldn't your kids urge their mother to end the affair and not break up the family and hurt you? Are you genuinely telling us that all these people - people that love you and your family - will sympathise with her and support her in her affair, even if they do believe the marriage was bad for her? they will support her in breaking your kids' hearts? Really?

You say you've read the Exposure 101 post that I recommended, but if you had you would not be talking about "scarlet letters". Where in that post, or on the thread, do you see anything like that as the desired effect? Did you read where Dr Harley said

"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing"?


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Originally Posted By: Conflictedguy
I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option.

Is that the only job you could ever have, in this whole wide world?

What is to stop you from renting out your house immediately, and renting somewhere else yourselves - somewhere in a different town, from where you can get to work? Meanwhile, you look for another job, or see whether you can transfer with this job. You also prepare to put both houses on the market, so that you can start a new life.

You make your financial situation sound tight, but surely nobody needs two houses. It's nice to have a holiday home, but it's hardly essential.


BW
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