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Authored by Distressed in Feb of 2001:<P>*************************************************<BR>I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.<P>I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.<P>Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.<P>While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.<P>I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.<P>Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end.<P><BR>Here's the link for the entire Post:<P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007757.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007757.html</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 26, 2001).]

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Resilient,<P><BR>As you probably already know I couldn't agree more by what Distressed wrote back in Feb. The entire thread was a good one and offered many of the older members of the forums opinions on Plan A. I don't know how to link the thread here. Do you and would you for the benefit of all the new people on the boards? Thanks for bringing this excellent thread to the fore front again. It is something that must not be ignored, for to do so means risking losing the marriage because only part of the harley plan was implemented. The Harley's plan is a TWO part plan!!!!!!1

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Will do, Mthrrhbard! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Okay Folks,<P>Here is the entire post titled "The Misapplication of Plan A", authored by Distressed and responded to by several heavy hitters. What I consider MB required reading. Please DO read:<P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007757.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007757.html</A> <P>Many prayers for All.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 26, 2001).]

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Thanks for the insight on Plan A and B. <P>I am new to this (he left for 4 weeks, came home for 3 weeks and has now left for good (so he says) two weeks ago and does not want to reconcile. I implemented Plan A when he was in the same house with me for only 3 weeks. I did very well at it. <BR>I am not sure if I should be implementing Plan B at this point or continue with Plan A? He still is involved with the other woman. He denies it but I have a recorded voice mail of him and her that happened as he was checking a voice mail I left him. When he went to check his messages for some strange reason it recorded him and her talking to each other about what was wrong with his voice mail. WOW!!<P>He still calls but doesn't want to talk about us. I get very depressed and hurt after I see or talk to him. Is it time for Plan B?<P>How do you implement Plan B if you need to talk about finances and kids?? He is supporting us 100%. <P>Any input would be great!<P>Pray2Day

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Gentle nudge to the TOP.

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I remember reading this post way back then...The best advice I got from it was being a better person, and whatever the plan A was..commit to for life..that was pretty easy...I also remember thinking that just clearing out LB's was more than half the battle. I'm not sure...would have to do a search but at this time I was about 2 mos past dday and a month away from PlanB...this did help me tighten up the A and I think made B a lot more effective.<P>Of note..the "don't talk about A, or reveal how you've been hurt" that most think are no-no's in A, are not....it's a matter of communicating respectfully and listening..not agreeing with everything that's said.<P>While everyone fears the "doormat" status..if you keep your self respect..by acting respectfully to partner and self, communicating your feelings calmly, I don't think it's a big problem. The biggest problem I see is the "ok, I've met his needs for xxx amount of time..when is he going to meet mine...I had this too...I think it's a fair thing to say, that it's not going to happen until the lines of communication are wide open...and that may take 2-3 months into real recovery.<P>Good thread then..good one now...did you send a copy to the Plan A/B Board?<BR>T

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Hi Jo - I, too remember this post, but it was kind of eerie reading my own reply. I remember another post back then in which the light clicked on in my head thanks to Motherhubbard (I can never remember the "correct" spelling [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ) about when to go to Plan B.<P>Of course, now I AM in Plan B (implemented in early July) and it's effects have been, well, er, interesting. My wife took it as controlling and manipulative on my part. Footnote: I had never heard the "C" word from her before.<P>Now to my point. I was under Steve's guidance the whole time I delayed going to Plan B. His question in every session: How much do I have left in my love bank? My answer was always the same: Plenty. Perhaps in my situation, in which I have a lot of compassion for my wife and what she's struggling with, my bank will never drain.<P>We (Steve and I) finally decided to go to Plan B when we did in order to do it before my wife filed for divorce, which could have been done after our one year of separation on Aug. 20. To do it after she filed would be seen as a retaliation, we worried. She's gonna file real soon.<P>In hindsight, like I stated before in replying to Distressed's thread (or was it another thread?), I should have gone to Plan B right at separation, Aug. 2000, a couple of months after the affair started. But I hadn't even discovered MB yet, although I was already doing a passable Plan A by using common sense.<P>Now to my real point. In my humble opinion, and maybe based on case specific circumstances, the criteria for shifting to Plan B should be clarified by the Harleys. <P>The current "guidance" popularly discussed on this forum is to implement Plan B when your love bank is almost depleted and you're having trouble avoiding lovebusters and emotional reactions to your spouse's disrespectful conduct.<P>I think the criteria should be a little more sophisticated. Plan B should be implemented when either of the following is true:<P>1. when your love bank is almost depleted and you're having trouble avoiding lovebusters and emotional reactions to your spouse's disrespectful conduct, or<P>2. when you've successfully demonstrated your Plan A improvements AND a physical separation takes place - regardless of the balance in your love bank.<P>Comments?<P>WAT

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Back to the TOP! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Hi Dave and everyone else!<P>I think you are exactly right about distinguishing that there are other variables to take into account besides the fullness (or lack there of) of ones LB when making the decision to move to Plan B.<P>One needs to think long and hard about the objectives of Plan A and recognize when those objectives have been met and when it's time to change the dynamics of what is happening in the relationship.<P>There are many who are so afraid of Plan B that they might never admit to themselves that they are ready for Plan B, or even more important that their WS needs to experience Plan B. Some could go on indefinitely convincing themselves that their love banks are far from being close to empty and thus avoid the tremendous benefits Plan B can bring, when done in a timely manner. <P>I am so glad that you are willing to bring your experience of doing a long Plan A ( and the lack of desired results it produced) to the forum and are self assured enough to admit this and discuss it with candor. You serve as a wonderful resource(and much, much more to those who love ya [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ) of how a long Plan A can be detrimental to restoring a marriage.<P>So what are the objectives of Plan A?<P>1. To be able to demonstrate to WS that you are serious about changing your part in the deterioration of the marriage ( if you were a decent spouse this doesn't take that long, if you were horrible it just might take several months).<P>2.To demonstrate that the marriage is a safe place to come back to ie: that you can forgive, still love despite the mistake and can move on to rebuild and won't punish your WS forever. <P>3. To demostrate the changes reflected thru #1 and to continue to become a better person yourself, despite the outcome of the marriage.<P>After those objectives have been met (and no you can't repeatedly question how good your Plan A was because no one gets it perfect, you must use what is reasonable as your measuring stick)and especially if your efforts are not having the desired effect of restoring the marriage, IT IS TIME FOR PLAN B. Do not be AFRAID, do not make excuses why it can't be done ot won't work, JUST DO IT, IF you want the BEST chance of your marriage being restored. The Harley's plan is a TWO part plan. You can't expect that Plan A all by itself will save your marriage, that is not it's intended purpose. It's purpose is to make BS a better person. Plan B is what really sends a strong message to WS. It gives them a consequence to their inappropriate behavior. Without a consequence there is absolutely no reason for a WS to give up the best of both worlds unless they value and have a close relationship with God and that relationship is falling apart as a result of their wrong doing and means enough for them to do an about face and change due to their intense, internal struggle. That doesn't happen very often. Most WS have distanced themselves from a real relationship with God because the guilt would be too much for them and they wouldn't be able to continue doing wrong/ pleasureable. So they withdraw from God as well as BS spouse because there in lies the source of their guilt. <P>That is where a consequence to the bad behavior must arise. Plan B does that. The consequence is that BS will no longer meet ANY of WS's needs until reconsiliation is desired by WS. It means they no longer get the privilege of interacting with BS.It also introduces an element of risk to continuing the affair...BS just might give up and move on and fall out of love themselves.It means BS protects themself with reasonable boundaries. Plan B is NOT a punishment it is a consequence, there is a big difference between the two. We are all human beings. We do things because we get a benefit out of it. When the consequences outweigh the benefits then we change our behavior to prevent the loss of what is valued.

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Wat..<BR>Excellent revision to the Plan B criteria.<BR>T

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up - need more comments

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Points well taken. The question is what to do when the time is right to plan B, but circumstances don't allow it. I have been plan A'ing since November, but A was not discover or exposed until April. In my situation, my W had never admitted A. We are still living together. Neither of us will leave because of our daughter and the repurcussions leaving would have in custody issues. Plan B is not an option for me, but would be the best thing to do if it was. So, what do I do?<P>sad dad

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Let me modify my Plan B criteria a little:<P>I think the criteria should be a little more sophisticated. Plan B should be implemented when either of the following is true:<P>1. when your love bank is almost depleted and you're having trouble avoiding lovebusters and emotional reactions to your spouse's disrespectful conduct, or<P>2. when you've successfully demonstrated your Plan A improvements AND a physical separation takes place - regardless of the balance in your love bank.<P>To clarify number 2 (explaining the AND logic): IF a physical separation takes place before you have demonstrated your Plan A improvements, then finish that task as best you can. Then implement Plan B.<P>To sad dad - I honestly don't know what to tell you and OOOO, who has the same situation. A legal, non-MB approach may be to file for divorce on the basis of adultery and ask your spouse to move out. But this is obviously contrary to what you want in the end.<P>WAT

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WAT,<P>As I stated before, I really have no options. I talked about this with Steve, and he said just continue with plan A. He thinks it may slowly be working because she hasn't filed. If you have a chance, please read my post "WS's waffling on divorce?". My W is not flaunting A in my face (in fact, vehemently denies it) or treating me badly or disrespectfully. She's just emotionally detached. Some days she very friendly and others she's distant and very quiet. <P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 27, 2001).]

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I also read both of Distressed's posts and totally agree. For me the difficulty has always been Plan B. Plan B was viewed as the biggest LB of all to my H. <P>One part of the reason is the kids. He seems to think that it is putting the kids in the middle. But I realize that it is because he needs that link to me....so I continue to set my own boundaries and try to dance out of his, which is difficult. In doing that of course, I am truly moving away from him emotionally. (hence, my love bank is on empty)<P>The second reason is that for my H his reality is constructed in such a way that he just thinks it;s OK to say "I've changed" and that's enough to make it all right.<P>He has become a workaholic and the OW is his assistant. His 'family" is now his patients and office staff.<P>And if you look at our society as a whole, many, many people do get away with it without any consequences (or at least they think there aren't any) because they can.<P>Society.... people who work with them, family members, etc. in essense "enable". People DO just get used to it. Even the kids.<P>However, you get to the point where you realize you have no controll over any other person's behavior but your own, and therefore, plan A seems to offer a good model by which to live your own life by.

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"Bump"<P>I think this is great!

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oooooohhh..the Plan B dilemma..the reason is is feared by WS and BS alike...it's just too much reality. That's the reason it is effective. Both partners will get a taste of exactly what life holds in store for them and it is scary. But it is realistic....and it is a big gamble...what if either partner likes it too much? Will reconciliation ever be possible. At what point will your life be so excrutiating that leaving and facing the unknown be preferable?<BR>T<P>

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Twyla:<BR><B>oooooohhh..the Plan B dilemma..what if either partner likes it too much? Will reconciliation ever be possible. At what point will your life be so excrutiating that leaving and facing the unknown be preferable?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>T<BR>This is what happened to me. My H moved out. His own form of Plan B ON ME!! He's the one having the A. I know it took a lot for him to do this, a LOT. He's not one who "moves on" very easily, or on his own. He could never just move into an apt. and live alone. He needs a keeper. She apparently made this easy for him, and helped.<P>So now what? I am in Plan A, but do not know if it will have any effect on him. He is apparently already making a "new life" w/OW, looking for work, and when I have spoken w/him, he seems "normal" and contented.<P>The dilemma for me from Day 1 was to understand how to implement ANY of these "plans" to my situation. I am still confused, and don't think there's any hope for my "backward" situation. He left and apparently has no inclination to look backward for even one last glance.<P>Lupo<BR>


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