I've been in a marriage for 4 years (8 if you count living together).<p>In the last two years my wife has become unstable in her work and has not been working in over a year. At her last job, she lost her temper and got herself fired. I'm not a rich person and need some help paying our bills. <p>I recently took a job in a remote setting that paid well and allowed my wife to not worry about working and fulfill her dream, which was to complete her degree. Well, she lost her temper with numerous people on the worksite (it was a Cattle Ranch). Well I got fired. Our life has been filled with instability and I'm tired of it.<p>Recently I also met up with an ex-girlfriend. I've done this before and nothing has ever happenned and it was just friends talking about old times. But this time something inside me snapped. I had the same feeling I had 11 years ago when she and I went out. She feels the same. Seeing her was like everything falling into place. She has a beautiful little daughter (not mine- she and her ex-husband's). It was like I fell in love all over again. <p>I never felt my present wife was my soul-mate. I care about her- but I know I can no longer be married to her. But am truly in love with the woman that has re-entered my life. She (my ex girlfriend) and I have agreed to remain friends and see what develops after separation/divorce.<p>I am following my gut? Am I doing the right thing. Please be objective.[email]sean __w__horne@hotmail.com[/email]

Art,
This is marriage builder site, do not look for sympathy or excuse to have an A. Even what we call Emotional Affair. Just look at how many Betrayed Spouse cries their soul out thoughout the posts. Read up on His Need and Her Need books and understand Love Bank. Educate yourself about MB by looking at the following link below:<p>General Welcome for All New Builders
Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes
Plan A misapplication by Distress <p>Get help on your M quick if you still want it and stop the EA w/ her. Talking/sharing your very intimate problem is for your spouse or marriage conselor or your pastor. You are on the edge of having PA if you continue to do so. Do not use your W as an excuse to have EA, it is your choice to guard your weakness and stay away from it. If you choose to end your M IT IS YOUR CHOICE no matter what is the reason and you have to live through it.<p>Read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 if you are christian and see your pastor.

Art:<p>I have to second everything redhat said. It sounds like you and your wife are at a very bad point. I advise that you be honest with her, tell her how you feel about the current state of your marriage, and see a marriage counselor ASAP. Confide in your wife about your concerns, not in your old girlfriend. One thing you will find if you read very much of the material on this site, is that if a person's emotional needs are not being met by their spouse (and this sounds like your situation) then they are very vulnerable to an emotional (EA) and/or physical affair (PA).<p>Almost certainly, having either type of affair with your old girlfriend will completely devastate your wife. The fallout will almost certainly be much worse on your wife, you and even your old girlfriend than you can probably understand at this stage. Try to take care of things at home. <p>I am in no way judging your actions and I can tell you are at the end of your rope with your wife. But do everyone involved a big favor and try to address your issues within your marriage.

I have told her about it. She is indignant and feels that because we are in a marriage that I should tolerate her regardless of what she does.<p>I think that is strange.<p>All I want is for her to realize that I can't do it all by myself.

Art Vandelay,<p>I am not going to try to analyze your relationship with your wife to determine if you ever really loved her and if she is the right person for you. The fact remains that you married her. You must have loved her and felt something special for her. Remember that you took marriage vows… when you did that you made a promise to love her and to forsake all others.<p>It does sound like you and your wife have grown apart. This is not terminal for either of you or the marriage. What it means is that the both of you need to do some work to rebuild your relationship. If after 6 months to a year of working on your marriage, you find that you cannot continue in the marriage, then divorce your wife. But only after this should you get involved with your old girlfriend.<p>In reality you are already having an affair with your old girlfriend, so I am going to call her the OW (other woman). It is an emotional affair. You are having some of your emotional needs filled by her. Any continued contact with her is continuation of that affair.<p>People have affairs because their emotional needs are not being met (read the book Surviving and Affair). Your wife has not been meeting your needs for some time. You feel sort of dead inside and your old girlfriend makes you feel appreciated again. I can tell from what you said that your wife is not meeting your emotional need for financial support. And I bet there are others. I can hear you saying, “yes yes” to this. But I’ve got news for you. You are 50% responsible for the current state of your marriage. My bet is that you have also not been meeting your wife’s needs for some time. Instead of chasing another skirt to get your needs met. Take a deep look inside of yourself and at your relationship. Be honest about it. What have you done to contribute to the current state of your marriage?<p>Was your wife always this angry? Why did she blow up and these occasions? Could it be that she is pathologically unhappy? Really look at your wife… what is going on with her? That is where your attention should be until the day you sign your divorce.<p>I know that by the time my ex-husband was talking about me in the tones that you used in your post here, he had not met my needs for years. Yes, I was pathologically unhappy. I sought over and over to get him to work on things with me, to get help for our marriage. Yet it was he, who refused to do any work on the relationship, who decided that he was justified in having an affair (well actually one after another). <p>You know, marriage is a lot of work. And like anything that takes a lot of work, it can return untold pleasure and rewards. But you will not get that if you do not do the work. No one tells us what the work of marriage is. If you read the material on this web site, you will find out what that work is and what you need to do not rebuild your marriage.
But none of us All of us here on MB will be more then glad to support you on rebuilding your marriage. There is no acceptable excuse for having an affair. No one here on MB will encourage you to have an affair. We work on rebuilding marriages. <p>Z

Art:<p>Perhaps you should seek individual counseling to get some professional and objective input. Until fairly recently, I hadn't been exposed much to professional counseling, but it can really help you sort the issues and feelings out. It sounds like you need to set boundaries with your wife. Let her know specifically what you want (Example: for her to seek counseling for her anger issues) and what your needs are ( Ex.: more stability in your life), and let her know what the consequences will be if she does not agree to work with you on marriage, because it will require work by both spouses.<p>While you are trying to work out these issues, you should avoid discussing them with old girlfriend. No matter what ultimately happens, you are much less likely to have regrets if you try to work things within the marriage first.

ART,<p> Everyone has given you great advice. The only thing I will add to that is this;<p> Please do not have an affair. If you do not love your wife. If you have to get a divorce, then do that first. BEFORE you have ANY kind of relationship with your old girlfriend.<p> I can tell you, as will just about everyone else here, that having any kind of relationship while you are still married will just about kill your wife. It is the worst possible thing you could do to her.<p> If you feel the need to talk more, in a less public place, feel free to email me at; jdmac1@yahoo.com<p> Please, think how you would feel if an affair happened to you. You know, back when you DID love your wife.<p> Good luck in whatever you decide.<p> jd<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

Art,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Please do not have an affair. If you do not love your wife. If you have to get a divorce, then do that first. BEFORE you have ANY kind of relationship with your old girlfriend.<p>I can tell you, as will just about everyone else here, that having any kind of relationship while you are still married will just about kill your wife. It is the worst possible thing you could do to her. <hr></blockquote><p>If you listen to or read nothing else on this (or any other) site, PLEASE listen to jdmac1's words quoted above. If you EVER loved your wife, your family, yourself, or God, DO NOT begin another relationship before first resolving your current one. There is nothing more hurtful in this world than being betrayed by a loved one....it would be easier to lose that loved one to death than to face this betrayal. That is the magnitude of what you're contemplating.<p>You OWE it to your wife to tell her how you feel. You HAVE to stress the seriousness of your situation to her, she may resist, she may not listen, she may not believe you, but YOU MUST MAKE HER UNDERSTAND. Often, it takes a PROFOUND event to "wake" the spouse up.....Often people choose an affair as that event. It needn't be. If ncessary, tell your wife that you've contemplated getting a divorce, or that the possibility of leaving her for this other woman has crossed your mind.....ANYTHING but that actual act of having an affair.<p>Do not see or speak to this other woman until you have your current situation resolved. If she is truly your "soul mate" (and I don't particularly believe that there's necessarily only one of those), then she will still be there in a year if that's how long it takes to resolve your marriage.<p>If need be, drag your wife, kicking and screaming, to marriage counseling. I'd HIGHLY recommend that you attemp to find one who professes the MB principles. Call the reservation center from the home page, and they can give you a list of counselors in your area.<p>Good luck, do the right thing.
Kevin

Art,<p>I agree with the above--do not have an affair. Be upfront with your wife--suggest counseling, whatever you are willing to do to save your marriage. You can't build your happiness on someone else's heartache. <p>Your W sounds as if she has some deep emotional problems that need to be addressed, not only for the marriage but for her happiness and well-being. Please ask her to seek therapy to resolve these issues.<p>I believe there is such a thing as being married to the wrong person. I was for 18 years. Do what you can to save your marriage if it is savable. If you do that and it still won't work, then you will know you did what you could.<p>If the OW is truly your 'soul mate', then it will work out the way it is supposed to.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Art Vandelay:
<strong>I have told her about it. She is indignant and feels that because we are in a marriage that I should tolerate her regardless of what she does.<p>I think that is strange.<p>All I want is for her to realize that I can't do it all by myself.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Art,
You are in a marriage. This is not just friends here this is an arrangement with commitment that you both agreed to. However, you W is being very selfish in her request. <p>So as hard as it is right now, agree that you are in a marriage and that both of you need to treat it as such. Read the book his needs/her needs. There is a lot you can both benefit from. A joint or individual session with Steve or Jennifer H may be helpful. <p>Take Care,
L.

Lots of good advice art, you are in the not so common position of having been exposed to the real nuts and bolts of marriage (MB principles) before you chose to give your heart to someone else. It may very well be your marriage is wrong, and you (both) do not fit. It is not uncommon for people to change when they are married and think they own you forever (so to speak) and become indignant when you suggest that is not necessarily how you feel (even if it is once). I don't know why, lots of reasons. But it is also true people get crosswise with each other, and simply do not know how to fix it..... I am not going to tell you you don't know your own mind, or are incapable of assessing your marriage is wrong...no one can tell you that. But it is psychologically sound behaviour to enter a marriage, AND leave a marriage in certain ways. In so doing you preserve your integrity (meaning you are good marriage material) and you avoid making emotional mistakes. MB works two ways, it can restore marriage, but it also reveals the truth of marriage. If your spouse (or you) cannot or will not (don't have the in-love motivation), then you can in good conscience leave the marriage, with or without your spouses goodwill. <p>But you have to make the effort first. You cannot make that effort while in an active affair. Your former gf will (if she is worthy) respect that, you know she exists, and yes maybe she will find someone else while you resolve your marriage....but if it is to be, it will, if not then life will take you somewhere else....the issue has to be is your marriage where you want to be..... not whether you want to trade your spouse for ow. Sometimes it looks no different, but the focus is important, to you, and any future relationship you have with your w or ow. You cannot find happiness over the body of your spouse....That means you cannot just walk out, committment does count, she deserves the truth, and a chance to respond in an effort to change your mind, if she wants too (she may not want to). Does this mean you live the whole marriage over? That efforts to now don't count? No, it is an on-going process. The fact is an affair may mean someone is almost done with the marriage, has given up, has alreadsy emotionally divorced their spouse, all that remains is the legalities, and possibly with good reason. One can debate the ethics of vows, what God wants, what is fair...till the cows come home, and never reach a definitive answer. <p>One can say your w behaviour is a result of her unhappiness, or one can say her (and your) lack of fit is why she acts as she does....makes no real difference...all that folks are saying is when Divorce is on the table, you pause, make some good faith effort to see if this is really the solution (meaning at least one person does not want to be married), and you do this without a competeing distraction with op. It does not mean your feelings go away, it just means you don't act on em while you reasses. If your mind is made up, and you do not want to continue on, then divorce your wife now, before you actively pursue the ow. One should not trade in a spouse for another, nor should one just settle for their spouse cause op gives you up. You should proactively, and passionately choose your w, essentially remarry her, that IMO is what restoration means...if you don't feel that way, then it won't work. Just be sure you don't feel that way.

Art,<p>You married the women you loved how can that be wrong? It's not! It's what you chose to do about this old girlfriend that could be wrong!!<p>My WH got involved via e mail with the old girlfriend from about 18 years ago while he was alone on a remote tour of duty for the AF. And now thinks that he married the wrong person. Not so!! He married the women that he asked to spend the rest of her life with him. He has just been sidetracked.<p>I am saying to you don't let yourself get involved in an EA with this OW, EA's are the hardest to get over. Do the right thing and find ways to re connect with the women you loved and asked to spend the rest of her life with you. Help her to explore why it is that she is so angry and un happy!!! Marriage is not easy, it is work and it has been the toughest job that I have ever had.<p>You owe your wife this opportunity, you must make a commitment to yourself to not seek out contact with this OW that you must get her out of your heart and mind and give those back to the women that they belong to and that is your wife.<p>Go and do the right thing!!!!! Dawn

Art,<p>If you are still around, could you please let us know. <p>Z

There is a reason why the OW is an EX-Gf and also a reason why you married your W instead. If the OW is your soul-mate, you would have married her. Why didn't you? Something prevented you from marrying her and it appears that she wasn't the one for you. What makes you think that she is your soul-mate now?<p>I truly believe that you are very vulnerable right now. Your emotional needs are being met by the OW and you are erroneously looking at her as your savior (the one who is making you feel fulfilled again). In reality, you are in a "fog" and can't see clearly.<p>You say that you have been with your W for 8 years? If you believe that she isn't the right woman for you, why have you stayed with her this long? It is apparent that you love/loved her, but have been distracted & side-tracked.<p>Of course, your W isn't helping the situation. It is obvious that she is troubled and extremely unhappy. Have you ever thought that maybe you aren't fulfilling her needs either? My advice would be, for both of you to go to joint marital counseling. Find out what the "real" problem is.<p>Be patient. Your M deserves another chance. Cut off ALL contact with this OW. You are involved in an EA with this OW and it won't help your situation at all. In fact, it will distract you and ruin any chance of your marriage recovering.<p>Be COMPLETELY honest with your W. Tell her about this OW of yours. Don't leave her in the dark and make her wonder why you are so emotionally detached. Tell her the truth. It will definitely hurt. But, betrayal, infidelity and the idea of divorce always hurts. There are always consequences to bad actions. Remember that.<p>I hope that you do the right thing and I hope that your W will work with you.

oooh yes you can definatley marry the wrong person!<p>you loved who you thought she was then im guessing and then discovered you didnt REALLY know her? or mayhaps she has changed drastically? <p>the attitude that you have to accept all behaviors from her because you are marrried is the wrong take [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>if she wants to remain in a happy marriage she must contribute too!<p>i know for a fact <life lesson > that you can meet a former partner and you both have changed enuff that was wrong before has changed and is right now [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] it happens people change !<p>you must decide what is right for you ...and only you can do that, take everyones advice then do some reading for your self<p>i suggest an excellent book titled : too good to leave / too bad to stay..it will help you address the issues you are facing in a very objective way!<p>if talking with your ex GF keeps you sane then by all means let her help you thru it , but i agree with not having an affair till you resolve your personal dillemma<p>still in the end its your life and yur decision
...just remember you are dead wayyyy longer then you have time on earth <p>resolve to be happy and live the best life you know how to [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

soulmate11,<p>I quote "if talking with your ex GF keeps you sane then by all means let her help you thru it , but i agree with not having an affair till you resolve your personal dillemma"<p>You can agree all you want about him not having an affair, BUT he already is, an emotional affair the hardest kind to get over.<p>And by no means!!! should he be talking with the ex GF. By talking with her he is not focusing on his marriage and healing it and making it better. He is sharing things with someone other then his spouse, by doing this he is heading in a very dangerous situation that he may not be able to deal with or get himself out of. My thought is to not put temptation in front of you and then you will not be tested to resist the temptation. I so wish that my husband had remember this when he began communicating with the old girlfriend.<p>Again I say "Art leave the old girlfriend alone and focus your attention on your wife and marriage"

Art,<p>Read Mb stuff again, and you will see that if you are serious about saving your marriage, there should be no contact with OW, ex girlfriend, whatever. <p>love and light,<p>Jacky<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Nina too ]</p>

Soulmate11, who are you ? could you post your profile by answering Orchid's post ?

Wow folks!<p>I must admit that I am finding SM11 rather annoying too, but... let's give her a chance.<p>She has posted here and there - usually touting the same book. Nothing wrong with touting a book, I do it all the time.<p>But, she hasn't posted an intro.<p>So... <p>SoulMate11,
please introduce yourself. Tell us about your situation and what you hope to gain from MarriageBuilders. If you are trying to solve some personal problems with marriage (which we all are), tell us about your problems and give us a chance to be of help to you. We are here to help each other apply the MB principles.<p>Are you game?<p>Art Vandalay,
I appologize that we are quarelling on your thread. Please come back and post. Give us an update. I think you can see that many here have strong views on your situation, but give us a chance to attempt a respectful discussion of your situation. OK?<p>All,
Art hasn't posted since the 19th. Maybe we should wait to see what he has to say before we bomb him out of existence.<p>-AD<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: AbandonedDad ]</p>

You are so right AD,<p>I apologise Art, and I am editing my post here. I think I let my own feelings get in the way on your thread (I am having a D Day anniversary today and it has been tough).<p>Come back, Art, and talk to us.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky