With his track record, it seems to me that YOU should also be concerned about stds. I can't imagine being with someone who's had that many other women. <p>Think of yourself, think of the wife (let her know) and stop thinking about him. He's certainly not worth it.

Hello everyone! I'm still around. I haven't had a chance to post much lately, I've been busy. Things are going well....here's an update.<p>The other night I was expecting a business call and when the phone rang, I answered. (I don't have caller ID.) Well, guess who?? It was HIM. We talked a while and everything went well. Nothing personal was discussed; we just talked about work, hockey, baseball and other things we have in common. I had NO urge to see him or desire to be with him. (He didn't even ask if we could get together, so maybe he realizes that I don't want to be with him in that way any longer...or maybe he doesn't want to be with me.) The talk left me with a good feeling...I didn't cry, didn't feel hurt...and especially...I DIDN'T want to be with him! My feelings towards him have changed so much, that I know I won't weaken. Talking to him was just like talking to any other male friend, co-worker or a brother.<p>But now I'm a bit confused: Would it be possible to just stay friends with this guy (as long as now my feelings have changed)? Or, do I need to still send the letter and end it completely?? (Want2FixIt, sending the letter registered mail at his work is a great idea and that is the route I would take with it.) But, I think it is the whole idea of "closure" that scares me. It is so final and would almost seem like a death. But that's the whole idea, right? It is supposed to be over.<p>We do have so much in common and get along great. He always said that we'd remain friends no matter what happened. I hate to lose the friendship too. But it is possible to keep that friendship?? Can anyone ever be just friends, after "crossing the line" into more?? Or does that kill the friendship, as well?? I would have no problem keeping it as friends. Maybe he has reached that point also. But, on the other hand, I ask myself if he is even worthy of friendship....after causing so much pain to so many people and being so selfish. Yes, I'm confused.<p>Heide and Juststartingover, I am sorry that you've both endured such painful experiences. Thank you for sharing them. I can't imagine how it would feel to be in that position. I hope things are getting better for both of you and wish you both well.<p>Again, thank you everyone for your insight!

Uh..did you read anything about affairs on this site before posting here? If so then you know full well you cannot be friends with this man, he's not your friend, he's the man you had an affair with. Are you really this thick or don't you get it? <p> God, write his poor wife anon about her scumbag H so maybe she'll only have to deal with some minor STDs and a broken heart instead of coming down with HIV from her H rutting like some wild pig. Stop protecting him if you have any sense of right and wrong. Geez louise, woman, don't you get it. <p> Stay away from him and get some self esteem, why the hell do you want to be anyone's seconds? And sorry, but that's all you were to him, after all he replaced you quickly enough, huh?

DJ, you already know it won't work. It's hard, isn't it, to give up this addiction? <p>You know about love banks, you know that if you let him make deposits it won't be long before you will be back in the same place you have worked so hard to get out of. <p>We all love you and want you to be happy. You weren't happy when you first came here. <p>My suggestion is to just hang up. If he calls and you hear his voice, just hang up and put the phone down. You already know what he wants. <p>You can find someone that will be YOURS ALONE.
I recommend you let him go and start looking. <p>SS

DJ,<p>I'm not sure you really understand the concept of no contact. No contact actually means NO contact. If the phone rings and it is him, you immediately hang up. Yes, it is essential to write the letter, and I would still urge to to inform his wife...though I doubt you will.<p>I am happy you have remained strong, but listen to the others....ANY contact deposits into his bank...you will fail to end this affair if you don't enforce a true No contact policy. <p>Yes you have things in common. Yes you have the basis for a friendship....those are precisely the reasons that this will explode in your face if you cannot remain out of his reach. <p>Dj...you know this. I know in your heart you these things I am saying to you are true. <p>Do me a huge favor. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read through it all again. Watch the change in you, reread the advice you have gotten...there is a wealth of good advice that the people here have spent the time and energy to write. Please me stronger than this. <p>You are almost free.

djmusicbox,
It sounds to me like you've gotten over some of the harder things, and have gone back to struggling with some of the basics<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by djmusicbox:
<strong>Nothing personal was discussed; we just talked about work, hockey, baseball and other things we have in common. <p>But now I'm a bit confused: Would it be possible to just stay friends with this guy
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Talking about work, hockey, baseball, and other things you have in common is how you deposit love units - this is a facet of companionship, and you can chit-chat on the phone and re-ignite romantic feelings in a little while. What you perceive yourselves to have in common are the things that will help you to re-strengthen your emotional bond - it's one of the things that's recommended for married couples to do<p>Yes, I believe it would be possible to "just stay friends with the guy".... but with astrononically fantastically amazingly huge risks that one whiff of the right cologne and you're off to the races again.<p>It's been a few hundred posts since the last time I spoke into this thread, but here's a little thing to consider: "Friends" with a dark secret to conceal have a particularly special sort of connection that could transcend any regular friendship already. . . Wholesome sorts of friends you may conceivably be AFTER you let his wife in on the peril that she is un-knowingly undertaking by being in a non-monogamous relationship.<p>Of course the idea of closure with its finality is scary - seems like a "death" because it shuts the door on a relationship that did in fact give you a great deal of exhiliration and comfort. But you're whittling the tail off your own dog just a snip at a time, and as much as it is true that you are doing well in that your passions are settling, I'll bet a good, honest look inside your own heart (as only YOU can do) will reveal to you that you are still just a bit "in love" with this man.
...and THAT is why everyone else here insists "no contact" and that you can't be friends. "I" on the other hand disagree - I believe you can conceivably be "just friends" (not while you're hiding something from his wife, though) but even so... whereas I do believe it, I'm figuring the odds at around 10,000,000 to 1 that you can't pull it off (which with odds like that, it's no wonder everyone else thinks, "no contact".... if you're going to try it, I'm going to be quiet about my theory that you can do it and go stand with them so that when you have another full-fledged fling with this guy I can jump in with them and act like I was saying "no contact", too)<p>Yes, though... yes you can be "just friends" with this man, but certainly not in any good sense while you and he are conspiring against his wife, even matters of the past.<p>...be done with it<p>Since I was figuring odds, here's another one - a hundred to one that if you wrap this thing up, in a couple of months you'll be happier than you ever have been in a long time, for though you may be "lonely" for a temporary season, you'll not be carrying the burden of indecisiveness that's connected to an unpromising relationship that can not be permanent (at least not without a TON of baggage) to begin with.

DJ,<p>Don't fool yourself into thinking you can be "just friends". Even though you say you don't want to be with him now, I think you might not understand completely what got you into trouble in the first place. Having good friendly conversations is probably what helped build up your Love for him. This is precisely why you need to have NO CONTACT. By conversing, you are inviting your love to grow. You may think you have your feelings under control now, but you cannot predict your future feelings given he is a very SMOOTH OPERATOR. He is using his vast experience of seducing women on you yet again, and you just go with it. Don't let him get away with this. You and he continue to inflict pain upon his family and you think it might be ok? Just because they don't know all the facts doesn't mean damage isn't being done. Innocent conversation is time that he isn't spending with them ok?<p>Write the no contact letter. I am also a BS, and so I understand the pain that these EA/PA can inflict on a family. My life is totally disrupted by my W's A right now. I don't deserve it, and neither does his W. Do the right thing!<p>[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Want2FixIt ]</p>

DJ - can you tell us which part of "NO CONTACT" is unclear?<p>Send the letter then block his calls or change your number. Then tell him that, if he contacts you again, you will tell his wife.

dj dj dj<p>This man was willing to destroy his wife...destroy you if he could manage it and add a third woman to the destroying frenzy...<p>And this is your "friend"? At what point do you reclaim your OWN dignity? since you have no intetions of helping his wife reclaim her dignity...and you don't seem to remember or notice about the Other Other Woman...What about you? <p>Who taught you it was ok to be treated this way and still call him a friend?<p>Sorry to be harsh..but those are the facts..sound silly enough yet?<p>Heide

Does he have any personal things at your house?<p>Maybe you should pack them and send them to his wife. No note, just his things.

ooooo cinderella? <p>LIKE THAT ONE!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

The difference between a friend and a lightbulb is that you can unscr*w a lightbulb.

cinderella,<p>I think sending the things without a note is something an OW would do to break up their M, not save it. So I think a note is in order to give the W the information she needs to make her own decision. Certainly what you suggested would shake things up but I'm not sure its the right thing to do.<p>So I would say if you are going to send personal things, send an apology letter with it letting her know it is over and NO CONTACT is in place. Remember this isn't about hurting him, its about what's best for his W and for getting DJ out of this mess.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Want2FixIt:<p>So I would say if you are going to send personal things, send an apology letter with it letting her know it is over and NO CONTACT is in place. Remember this isn't about hurting him, its about what's best for his W and for getting DJ out of this mess.[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>
While that is the goal...she's not willing to do it the way we all know it should be done...<p>Some people see confrontation on the same scale of fear factor as eating a hundred year old egg...some people can't muster it...and either we have tolerance for it or we call them weak and pathetic...whatver happens to the wife in this situation....she's not willing to directly confront her..so any bit of hope that she be notified somehow is better than none...<p>JMHO
Heide

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
While that is the goal...she's not willing to do it the way we all know it should be done...<p>Some people see confrontation on the same scale of fear factor as eating a hundred year old egg...some people can't muster it...and either we have tolerance for it or we call them weak and pathetic...whatver happens to the wife in this situation....she's not willing to directly confront her..so any bit of hope that she be notified somehow is better than none...
<hr></blockquote>
I think we all wished she had sent the letter yesterday. But I doubt you are a predictor of future human behavior. I am hopeful that she will get the courage to do the right thing even if it isn't in "our time". It seems you have aimed at a lower outcome and have written off that she will ever send the W a letter. The letter to him is the most important thing, then the letter to the W in my opinion.<p>Read your sig line again and start aiming a bit higher.

Ok, I guess I've got to plead temporary insanity on the idea of being friends with MM!!!!!<p>But first, a big thank you to Want2FixIt, for understanding how difficult this is for me and not giving up on me. In reading the some of the posts from Juanita and MaryRN, they said they also had tried numerous times to end their relationship. Yes, it does take time. It is not an easy thing to do. Now, the latest:<p>When I got home from work yesterday, I found a surprise....it was one of his sweet little "thinking of you because I know it would make you smile" messages on my recorder.<p>And yes, it made me smile....but THEN it made me realize...those are exactly the type of little surprises he was so good at that deposited HUGE tokens in my love bank....he knew just what to do...almost everything he said or did added another deposit...and yes, at one time that love bank was overflowing!!!!!<p>Later, I found an email which said that there has NEVER been any intimacy with the OOW (and he wasn't sure if there ever would be), so I shouldn't wonder about them, as nothing has happened. (I still want to believe so strongly that he is honest with me, but his track record says otherwise.)<p>All of you are so right....being friends with him would fill that love bank very quickly (even if I wouldn't want it to). With everyone's support and encouragement, I've gathered so much strength to resist him that I know a simple friendship is impossible. This whole mess began with friendship and those seemingly "innocent" conversations we had.<p>I will do the right thing. I will send the letter (to him). (He is going to be off work for a week, so it won't be that soon.) Although the idea of closure is scary, I see it is the only way to break free from this. I wish it could help him and his wife, as well, but in their case, I think there will ALWAYS be an OW in the picture. <p>Cinderella, he doesn't have any belongings at my house. Although I like your idea of sending them to his wife, I have to agree with Want2FixIt that I'd send an apology note along with it. I definitely have alot to apologize for.<p>I appreciate everyone's continued help and wish all of you well. I'll keep in touch!

Hi DJ,<p>I know it is a long painful process to fully let go of MM. I still long for him to be back on my couch, or dropping me off coffee at work.I gave in so many times and each time felt sick.I was supposed to adore this man and I felt sick?
Funny story ....... I was washing my car last week and needed to scrub the aluminum rims on my car. I found his toothbrush that I just could not throw out and boy, did those rims shine!! I think I am healing !
You are getting there, I can hear it.It does take time.It is almost 5 months of no contact for me. I still have not laid eyes on him, so that will be the true test of my will power. But I do feel in control of my emotions now. That and the fact, I gained 12 lbs of muscle at the gym, grew my hair long, got a "water bra"..... Life is good Sister and I look great!!! That is the best revenge. Not that I am a vengeful person [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
You are doing ok, and yes, life does go on.<p>Be strong ....... Mary

dj,<p>I'm glad to see you are coming to your senses! Be strong and keep up the fight!<p>I will certainly be pleased when you have finally sent the letter, and you will be like Mary, here in recovery helping others with this difficult kind of addiction, and preparing for a new life of a healthy relationship with someone who isn't married
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Great stuff, DJ! It's good to see you moving toward the light.<p>I know this is hard for you; you have so much to give and you don't see the manipulation. I read how he left you a "cute" little voicemail: "just to let you know I'm thinking about you BECAUSE I KNOW IT'LL MAKE YOU SMILE". See the mindgames here? If he was genuinely just thinking of you, why cue you in to your expected response? He's telling you outright he expects you to be thrilled and grateful because he tells you he's thinking of you. He's playing the game known as "stringing her along while I get my own way." Just as he does to his wife. And the email? Sweetie, this is gaslighting YOU now. You SAW him with #4 in the same make-out spot he used with you, he told you she's sending him signals and he won't refuse, he told you the same lie that he said he'd prepared for his wife if she ever saw you and him together (we're just professional associates), he hasn't been around for sex so he's getting it somewhere else... he's denying your reality and trying to suck you into his murky world of deceit and evasion. <p>Write the letter and move out of the fogbelt. For your sake, for your emotional health.

Hello to all! Thank you for your replies! Mary, I loved the story about the toothbrush on those rims!! That must be a sure sign of healing! It sounds like you are doing a great job of handling the pain of your situation. It's time I find a "new me" too....I hope I can. I wish you continued success!!<p>Juststartingover, yes, he played mindgames, and was so good at it; had lots of practice. The gaslighting too...deep in my heart, I still want to believe he was honest with me, but I know better. I wonder if he has ever been honest with anyone, even himself? Maybe my feelings are still so deep for him, that I just can't believe he would do that to me, although I know he did.<p>Well, Want2FixIt, I WILL definitely send the letter when he gets back to work (and I won't weaken on that). Some days I think I'm doing so good with all this, but, then a bad day comes along. I'm just on a bad guilt trip today. I wonder if there really is a new life out there for me after all this, or if I even deserve one. I question again how and why I could have gotten myself into this ugly situation and cause pain to his wife and kids, especially when the vow of marriage means so much to me. I guess I just need to vent, so here I am.<p>Hope everyone hangs in there too and has a good holiday weekend!