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#3000679 10/31/17 09:05 PM
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I've been giving my husband the cold shoulder lately. I admit it. I'm not doing it on purpose. I just don't "feel" close to him. He is gone for work a lot and has been like this for years. Lately when he is around I just feel like "oh, another person in the house". I feel somewhat indifferent. He says he loves me so much and thinks I'm awesome and is so happy to see me for whatever amount of time we get. He says that I must not love him because when people love each other unconditionally they are just happy to spend whatever time they can together. Is this true?? I'm really confused.

eca #3000680 10/31/17 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by eca
I've been giving my husband the cold shoulder lately. I admit it. I'm not doing it on purpose. I just don't "feel" close to him. He is gone for work a lot and has been like this for years. Lately when he is around I just feel like "oh, another person in the house". I feel somewhat indifferent. He says he loves me so much and thinks I'm awesome and is so happy to see me for whatever amount of time we get. He says that I must not love him because when people love each other unconditionally they are just happy to spend whatever time they can together. Is this true?? I'm really confused.
How much UA time are you getting? Do you schedule it each week?


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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Have you read this and listen to the radio clips in it? The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Honestly, I don't know. Not 15 hours that is for certain. Please remind me, is it only UA time if it is considered "connecting" by each partner or does it just mean how much time do we spend together? Either way, less than 5 most weeks. Sometimes on Sundays we have a little more time together.

eca #3000683 10/31/17 09:28 PM
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What if I'm at the point where during UA time I'm not into it anyway (not just the sex but any of it, conversation etc...) Do you just go through the motions and hope for better?
(reading your above link about UA time right now)

Last edited by eca; 10/31/17 09:28 PM.
eca #3000684 10/31/17 09:40 PM
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Does your DH commit any Lovebusters? What are your top ENs?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



eca #3000685 10/31/17 09:42 PM
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And UA time should be spent meeting the 4 intimate ENs, affection, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment and recreational activities.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Ok so UA needs to be spent meeting each other's needs but POJA states not to do anything both of you aren't 100 per cent on board with. Well I don't want to sit and talk or have sex or show affection. Then what?
As far as love busts go I'd say no, he doesn't really do any. I do, as I don't show any affection and it is a top need of his, along with sf.

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Originally Posted by eca
I've been giving my husband the cold shoulder lately. I admit it. I'm not doing it on purpose. I just don't "feel" close to him. He is gone for work a lot and has been like this for years. Lately when he is around I just feel like "oh, another person in the house". I feel somewhat indifferent. He says he loves me so much and thinks I'm awesome and is so happy to see me for whatever amount of time we get. He says that I must not love him because when people love each other unconditionally they are just happy to spend whatever time they can together. Is this true?? I'm really confused.


The problem is you have fallen out of love. It takes 20-25 hours per week of UA time to fall in love, and 15 hours per week to maintain it. You haven't maintained it so you fell out of love. The solution is to start going out on 4 to 5 - 4 hour dates per week. You will fall in love again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by eca
Ok so UA needs to be spent meeting each other's needs but POJA states not to do anything both of you aren't 100 per cent on board with. Well I don't want to sit and talk or have sex or show affection. Then what?
As far as love busts go I'd say no, he doesn't really do any. I do, as I don't show any affection and it is a top need of his, along with sf.

Go out on 4-5 4 hour dates doing things you both enjoy. You should focus on meeting the 4 top intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. You will fall in love again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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How much and what hours does your H work? Does he travel for work?

unwritten #3000712 11/01/17 07:23 PM
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He doesn't work set hours (but can't set his own schedule). He is at the mercy of his job and is expected to be "on" and "available" basically consistently. It is over the top but it is what it is. On top of that he is a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to work. So he works a lot. He just traveled the past 3 weeks. But usually doesn't travel quite so much. This week he will work about 70 hours and still feel behind. I'm having trouble (have had for the past 14 years) asking for 20 hours a week of his time that he doesn't really have anyway.
So how is it possible that he still says he is in love with me without spending much time together and yet you say "I've fallen out of love with him"? He would say well that is conditional love then. He can't understand that at all and I'm confused by it.

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Originally Posted by eca
I'm having trouble (have had for the past 14 years) asking for 20 hours a week of his time that he doesn't really have anyway.

How does he manage to find the time for work? Does he have time to go to work?

Quote
So how is it possible that he still says he is in love with me without spending much time together and yet you say "I've fallen out of love with him"? He would say well that is conditional love then.

Yes, romantic love is conditional. It is like a house in which you never do repairs and avoid basic upkeep. Eventually the house falls down. A marriage is the same way, when you neglect it, it falls apart.

I would be very honest with him about your feelings and ask him to commit to 4 - 4 hour dates a week so you can fall in love again. He can't fix the problem if he doesn't understand it.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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The Policy of Undivided Attention

Before you were married, spending time alone with each other was your highest priority. You probably spent the majority of your leisure time together, and the time you spent together was probably the most enjoyable part of every week.

You tried to talk to each other every day. If you couldn't be with each other face-to-face, you talked on the telephone, maybe for hours. And when you were together, you gave each other your undivided attention.

But after marriage, like so many other couples, you may find that you can be in the same room together and yet ignore each other emotionally. What's even worse, you may find that you are not even in the same room together very often, particularly after your children arrived.

One of the more difficult aspects of marriage counseling is scheduling time for it. The counselor must often work evenings and weekends because most couples will not give up work for their appointments. Then the counselor must schedule around a host of evening and weekend activities that take a husband and wife in opposite directions.

But finding time for an appointment seems easy compared to arranging time for the couple to be together to carry out their first assignment. Many couples think that a counselor will solve their problem with weekly conversations in his office. It doesn't occur to them that it's what they do after they leave the office that saves the marriage. To accomplish anything, they must schedule time together -- time to give each other their undivided attention.

It's incredible how many couples have tried to talk me out of their spending more time together. They begin by trying to convince me that it's impossible. Then they go on to the argument that it's impractical. But in the end, they usually agree that without time for undivided attention, they cannot re-create the love they once had for each other.

And that's my point. Unless you and your spouse schedule time each week for undivided attention, it will be impossible to meet each other's most important emotional needs. So to help you and your spouse clear space in your schedule for each other, I encourage you to follow


The Policy of Undivided Attention:
Give your spouse your undivided attention
a minimum of fifteen hours each week,
using the time to meet the emotional needs of
affection, sexual fulfillment, intimate conversation, and recreational companionship.
.
This policy will help you avoid one of the most common mistakes -- neglecting each other after marriage. I have tried to clarify this policy for you by offering three corollaries: Privacy, Objectives and Amount.


Corollary 1: Privacy

The time you plan to be together should not include children (who are awake), relatives or friends. Establish privacy so that you are better able to give each other your undivided attention.

It is essential for you as a couple to spend time alone. When you have time alone, you have a much greater opportunity to make Love Bank deposits. Without privacy, undivided attention is almost impossible, and without undivided attention, you are not likely to meet some of each other's most important emotional needs.

First, I recommend that you learn to be together without your children. This can be very difficult for many couples, especially when children are very young. They don't think that children interfere with their privacy. To them, an evening with their children is privacy. While they know they can't make love with children around, the presence of children prevents much more than sex. When children are present, they interfere with affection and intimate conversation, two very vital needs in marriage. Besides, affection and intimate conversation usually lead to lovemaking, and without them, you will find that your lovemaking suffers.

Second, I recommend that friends and relatives not be present during your time together. This may mean that after everything has been scheduled, there is little time left for friends and relatives. If that's the case, you're too busy, but at least you will not be sacrificing your love for each other.

Third, I recommend that you understand what giving undivided attention means. It's what you did when you were dating. You probably would not have married if you had ignored each other on dates. You may have parked your car somewhere just to be completely alone, and to rid yourselves of all distractions. That's the quality of undivided attention I'm referring to here.

When you see a movie together, the time you are watching it doesn't count toward your time for undivided attention (unless you behave like the couple who sat in front of my wife and me last week!). It's the same with television and sporting events. You should engage in these recreational activities together, but the time needed for undivided attention is different -- it's the time you pay close attention to each other.

Throughout our entire married life, most of the time that Joyce and I have spent giving each other undivided attention has been away from our home. That way we were able to avoid interruptions from our children or unexpected company. But now, even though our children have been on their own for years, we still spend most of that time away from our home. We've found that it's much easier to give each other the kind of undivided attention we both need when we're not at home.

Now that you're alone with each other, what should you do with this time? The second corollary answers that question.

Corollary 2: Objectives

During the time you are together, create activities that will meet the emotional needs of affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation and recreational companionship.

Romance for most men is sex and recreation; for most women it's affection and conversation. When all four come together, men and women alike call it romance and they deposit the most love units possible. That makes these categories somewhat inseparable whenever you spend time together. My advice is to try to combine them all.

After marriage, women often try to get their husband to meet their emotional needs for conversation and affection, without meeting their husband's needs for sex and recreational companionship. Men, on the other hand, want their wives to meet their needs for sex fulfillment and recreational companionship, without meeting their wives needs for affection and conversation. Neither strategy works very well. Women often resent having sex without affection and conversation first, and men resent being conversant and affectionate with no hope for sex or recreation. By combining the fulfillment of all four needs into a single event, however, both spouses have their needs met, and enjoy the entire time together.

A man should never assume that just because he is in bed with his wife, sex is there for the taking. In many marriages, that mistake creates resentment and confusion. Most men eventually learn that if they spend the evening giving their wife their undivided attention, with conversation and affection, sex becomes a very natural and mutually enjoyable way to end the evening.

But there are some women who don't see the connection either. They want their husbands to give them the most attention when there is no possibility for sex. In fact, knowing that affection and intimate conversation often lead a man to wanting sex, they try hardest to be affectionate when they are out in a crowd. That tactic can lead to just as much resentment in a man as nightly sexual "ambushes" create in a woman. Take my word for it, the fulfillment of the four needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment is best when they are met together.

Corollary 3: Amount

How much time do you need to sustain the feeling of love for each other? Believe it or not, there really is an answer to this question, and it depends on the health of a marriage. If a couple is deeply in love with each other and find that their marital needs are being met, I have found that about fifteen hours each week of undivided attention is usually enough to sustain their love. When a marriage is this healthy, either it's a new marriage or the couple has already been spending that amount of time with each other throughout their marriage. Without fifteen hours of undivided attention each week, a couple simply can't do what it takes to sustain their feeling of love for each other.

As I have observed the quality and quantity of undivided attention given in romantic relationships, I find that while some time is given almost daily, significant "dates" are scheduled several times a week. These dates usually take about three or four hours, the time that it would take to meet all four of the intimate emotional needs to the satisfaction of both spouses. So while some form of emotional connection should be made throughout the week, if the four intimate emotional needs are to be met effectively, a four-hour date is usually required.

The reason I have so much difficulty getting couples to spend time alone together is that when I first see them for counseling, they are not in love. Their relationship does not do anything for them, and the time spent with each other seems like a total waste at first. But when they spend time together, they learn to re-create the romantic experiences that first nurtured their love relationship. Without that time, they have little hope of restoring the love they once had for each other.

But fifteen hours a week is usually not nearly enough time for couples that are not yet in love. To help them jump-start their relationship, I usually suggest twenty-five or thirty hours a week of undivided attention until they are both in love with each other again.

Your time together is too important to the security of your marriage to neglect. It's more important than time spent doing anything else during the week, including time with your children and your job. Remember that the time you should set aside is only equivalent to a part-time job. It isn't time you don't have; it's time you will use for something less important, if you don't use it for each other.

To help you plan your week with each other's emotional needs in mind, I encourage you to meet with your spouse at 3:30 Sunday afternoon, to look over each other's schedule for the coming week to be sure you have provided time for each other. It's always a good idea to plan a little extra time in case of an emergency that may disrupt your 15 hours.

You have 168 hours every week (24x7) to schedule for something. I highly recommend 8 hours of sleep a night, so that leaves 112 waking hours. Getting ready for the day, and going to bed at night may require, say, 12 hours, and work plus commute may take another 50 hours. That leaves 50 more hours to spend doing what you value most, and 15 of those hours should be dedicated to maintaining a passionate and fulfilling marriage.


If you have not been in the habit of spending 15 hours a week for undivided attention, it will mean that something less important will have to go. But it will radically change your life for the better, because you will be investing in one of the single most important parts of your life -- your relationship with your spouse.

If you're not yet convinced, a Q&A column and an article I've written that may help you understand the importance of undivided attention are, We Don't Spend Enough Time with Each Other, and Why Women Leave Men.

You and your spouse fell in love with each other because you met some of each other's most important emotional needs, and the only way to stay in love is to keep meeting those needs. Even when the feeling of love begins to fade, or when it's gone entirely, it's not necessarily gone for good. It can be recovered whenever you both go back to being an expert at making Love Bank deposits. First, be sure you know what each other's needs are (complete the Emotional Needs Questionnaire). Then, learn to meet those needs in a way that is fulfilling to your spouse, and enjoyable for you, too.

Meeting important emotional needs is only half of the story, however. While that's how couples make the most Love Bank deposits, they must be sure that they're not making Love Bank withdrawals.

The next section introduces several concepts that will help you avoid hurting each other. You'd think that causing pain and suffering would be the last thing a married couple would want to do to each other, yet it's done instinctively and habitually. Unless you protect each other from your destructive habits and instincts, you will hurt each other so much that eventually your Love Bank accounts will be in the red -- you will hate each other.

You have already read quite a bit about making Love Bank deposits, and you may feel as if you have learned enough to put your marriage back on track. But don't stop reading now. The next basic concept is in some ways more important than those I've already introduced to you because if you don't know how to avoid hurting each other, you may not have the opportunity to care for each other. The two go hand-in-hand and without protection, care is impossible. So please read on.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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thanks Melody. The above looks helpful and I will read it over. I understand the analogy of the house falling down. I agree. I just don't think he will because he can't understand that.
I know he makes time to go to work so it seems he should make time to spend time on us. It is really hard for people to understand his position. It really is crazy and if you don't put the time in you loose your job. And I know some will say he needs to switch jobs if he wants to have a stronger marriage but that means moving countries etc...

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Feeling overwhelmed

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ok, moving forward. Scheduled time tonight with husband to schedule in more time together. I'm feeling happy that I see hope for this but also very nervous as even in our very good times I don't have any interest in affection or sf. I'm doubtful that this time around will be any different. That is a me issue that I believe I need to see a counselor for. I also have walls up and have been emotionally withdrawn for a lot of years so I'm not sure how to or very willing to remove those walls.

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Originally Posted by eca
ok, moving forward. Scheduled time tonight with husband to schedule in more time together. I'm feeling happy that I see hope for this but also very nervous as even in our very good times I don't have any interest in affection or sf. I'm doubtful that this time around will be any different. That is a me issue that I believe I need to see a counselor for. I also have walls up and have been emotionally withdrawn for a lot of years so I'm not sure how to or very willing to remove those walls.

It will take a few weeks for you to feel affection towards him if you will stick to a date schedule. But you will have to stick with it. It is action that will cause this change, not going to a counselor. You are checked out but you can check back in if there is a) quality need meeting and b) quantity of time.

The best way to do this is sit down schedule your time for the week. It is too easy to put off time that is not scheduled. Use this schedule to plan out your dates: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdf


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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When you schedule your 20-25 hours of UA time schedule dates that you enjoy doing.


FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by eca
I know he makes time to go to work so it seems he should make time to spend time on us. It is really hard for people to understand his position. It really is crazy and if you don't put the time in you loose your job. And I know some will say he needs to switch jobs if he wants to have a stronger marriage but that means moving countries etc...

It is very likely that if the job does not compliment your marriage, he would need to find another job. However, if you both operate as if the job comes before the marriage, it won't matter what job he has, it will come between the marriage.

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Originally Posted by eca
He doesn't work set hours (but can't set his own schedule). He is at the mercy of his job and is expected to be "on" and "available" basically consistently. It is over the top but it is what it is. On top of that he is a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to work. So he works a lot. He just traveled the past 3 weeks. But usually doesn't travel quite so much. This week he will work about 70 hours and still feel behind. I'm having trouble (have had for the past 14 years) asking for 20 hours a week of his time that he doesn't really have anyway.

This would be a work schedule that would wreak havoc on ANY marriage. Traveling jobs are the MOST damaging to marriages, first because they do not allow time for UA (you can't meet someones needs if you are gone) and second because they leave the door wide open for affairs. For this reason Dr Harley says that you should never spend a night apart.

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Thank you all for your good input and advice and articles to read. I am still wondering how he can travel and not spend much time with me and still feel so connected and I can't??? Do some people work that way?

Unwritten....very interesting comments about the job and hours. So many people we know work similar to us and I kept saying to him "but other people do it and they seem just fine so how do they do it??" But then again my friend just told me her husband is having an affair....

I'm most worried right now about putting in the time and not getting the affection/sf desire that couples "should" have if they are really in love. I never had that and I have a long history of that with my past relationships too. He says we can't just focus on that, we just spend time together and not just focus on an end goal.

My question is how do I change from emotionally withdrawn to open. I want so badly to have this emotional connection but I really don't know how to be emotionally vulnerable. Even on everyday things like "what did you do today". And this isn't just an issue with him but I have never really shared "the real me" with anyone. I must be a really guarded or skeptical or self conscious etc....person as I never really let people in. I really want this and crave it but I really don't know how. So to meet my needs of conversation and my desire to have a really deep connection I know I actually need to be willing to share with him. I just don't know how to do that. I'm a super pro at changing the subject, turning the focus back to the other person etc....

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Originally Posted by eca
My question is how do I change from emotionally withdrawn to open.

The solution is in the UA time. You will not feel emotionally withdrawn if you follow the policy of UA for a few weeks.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Ok, thanks Melody. I just have been so closed off my whole life that I'm nervous I will revert to just all the superficial things that I can talk about. We will keep moving forward with UA time. We did spend more time together this weekend and it was good. It wasn't all necessarily UA time but it was nice. We did things like going together to my daughter's sports event. Etc....things I usually do alone.

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eca, just a watch out, you won't ever notice any difference unless you get to 20+. I am not trying to discourage you, but you will be very discouraged if you just increase it a "little" because you won't see any difference. It really does work, but you need to do it right. Plan out 4 - 4 hour dates every week and make them as enjoyable as possible. In fact, the most enjoyable dates we have are very superficial!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 104
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eca Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 104
Ok Melody. Thank you. You are not discouraging. You are giving me reality checks. I appreciate it.

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