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That's a powerful possibility. One that I certainly will think about.

One of Dr. Harley's concerns with my husband is that he typically has low impulse control. Dr. Harley asked if H had any history including head trauma. There has been, from before we met.

Add this to the potential ADHD (could they be a chicken & the egg situation?), and I may have to ask that several things happen before a reconciliation.

This would also involve me being much stronger than I was when H and I met. I had told him then that the anger had to be properly managed before I'd marry him. I didn't wait until the condition was met. This time around, I will have to absolutely stand my ground.

1) Anger managed
2) Impulse control - follow POJA will help with this
3) ADHD testing/management if found
4) 6 months no love busters (from both of us)
5) Change tactics raising our son, less bully, more guide.
6) A plan to meet the 15-20 hours UA EVERY week.

That is the first time I've been able to consider the list of what I want/need for a separation to turn into a reconciliation.

Thank you for your posts, everyone. This is major progress.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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I hope that the Anger Management and Impulse Control are linked - I have been using what I call the Bob Ross method to stay calm.

Please don't get fixated on ADHD or anything else like that - it was just the way your wrote that paragraph. And I do not have the ability to diagnose (not even pretend on TV).

If you google "Brain injury and ADHD" you should find several sites /articles / studies looking at a possible link between the two, and also how TBI can seem like ADHD (or ADD). Of course this begs the question did the ADHD contribute to the injury -(instead of "Ready, Aim Fire" we often are "Fire, Ready, Aim") or is the ADHD a result of the injury?

I am happy you are getting a good set of conditions down -and you are strong enough to do this - for you, and your son.

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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
That's a powerful possibility. One that I certainly will think about.

One of Dr. Harley's concerns with my husband is that he typically has low impulse control. Dr. Harley asked if H had any history including head trauma. There has been, from before we met.

Add this to the potential ADHD (could they be a chicken & the egg situation?), and I may have to ask that several things happen before a reconciliation.

This would also involve me being much stronger than I was when H and I met. I had told him then that the anger had to be properly managed before I'd marry him. I didn't wait until the condition was met. This time around, I will have to absolutely stand my ground.

1) Anger managed
2) Impulse control - follow POJA will help with this
3) ADHD testing/management if found
4) 6 months no love busters (from both of us)
5) Change tactics raising our son, less bully, more guide.
6) A plan to meet the 15-20 hours UA EVERY week.

That is the first time I've been able to consider the list of what I want/need for a separation to turn into a reconciliation.

Thank you for your posts, everyone. This is major progress.

You are going to want to make number 4 to 1 year of no love busters... trust me- he needs to see that you mean business and a 6 months isn't enough. Let him know upfront that this isn't a quick fix but a long term solution.

Also- explain that the 20 hours a week of UA time will only start to happen after a couple of weeks of no love busters by email and text. If he slips up- time of that 2 weeks starts over before he gets to see you.
Once you get to seeing him if he slips up on a date- just end it and have a cooling off period. The goal is to EVENTUALLY get to your UA time and it be a habit before you live together again. This is an important one to explain.

Since the Anger is the biggest hurdle-I wouldn't even consider seeing him at all until he has been doing an anger management course for a month and succeeding. Everything else is honestly a moot point if he won't do this. No amount of pleading, need meeting, changing of anything at all counts one iota if he won't stop the anger for good.

I agree with Melody that when you finally separate and the relationship is on your terms versus theirs..... the greatest sense of relief comes over you.
It is as if a huge bolder that has been resting on you comes off and your clarity of mind and heart come back. That alone will make you stronger my friend.
It will not be like the first time as you know what its like to just go back.

Heard back from the lawyer? How are the plans going? What kind of time frame till separation day? If he blew up tomorrow in some kind of rage-Could you kick him out right there & then?


BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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Full on disaster of a weekend.

I have got perhaps 15 hours sleep since Thursday morning.

It has been non-stop, 'I think the marriage is important enough to talk this through, why do you keep letting the (dogs, child, phone, work) interrupt us?'

After all the words and all the hurt feelings and everything, all I can take away are that he's not loud, but his anger is still vindictive and hurtful. And that he is willing to wear me down emotionally, physically and spiritually to get me to give in. And, since I'm not giving in this time, he kept at me for four days.

I asked that we give it a break yesterday. I was accused of not being as committed, being untrustworthy because I'm not as committed and treated to a story of his childhood that doesn't relate to, help or even help understand our situation at all, but does explain why he has a very, very low opinion of all women everywhere. I made mention of the fact that I was talked out after the marathons of Thursday night (until 3 AM), Friday (from 10AM when he woke up until 1:30 AM, except for three hours working on a school project with our son) and Saturday night (from 4:30AM when he woke me up in tears having what appeared to be a total meltdown about his childhood until 6AM, Then from 10:30 AM until 4AM except for the two hours to finish said child's project). I needed rest, peace and time to digest everything that had been discussed. That lasted until 6PM and kept up until 10:30 PM (to ensure that I missed a tv show I like to watch). When I asked permission to take a break from the conversation, stating that we had answered all questions and rehashed all responses at least twice - which he acknowledged - at 9:00, I was again told that I put a TV show in front of him. WHAT? And, he kept talking until 10:30. And, he was still angry that I still wanted to watch my show, since he decided he was going to bed. And, he was still acting as if I was going to be unfaithful to the entire marriage because I wanted to watch a TV show. When I finished (fast-forwarding as much as I could), he wanted a back rub, which I gave him. He began to make provocative statements trying to get the whole conversation started again. I put a stop to it, but not before he told me again how HE was committed WHATEVER IT TOOK and that I must not be (am I wrong, or was that judgmental?).

Am I insane or am I being manipulated? I am so lost, confused, sleep-deprived (his favorite method of wearing me down until I give in - just so I can get some sleep!). I'm angry because I do feel manipulated. My defenses are low. I haven't the energy to keep this up!

Then, the heat pump has a problem, needs to be addressed, happened in the middle of the night. Dog wakes me up, I wake H up, because I honestly didn't know just what to do (sleep-deprived fuzzy brain). He gets up, all chipper, ready to be my helper, fixes son and me breakfast while I'm in the shower, is great to our son. All smiles as he sends me off to work.

I want out. This felt like some kind of emotional torture. No answer was good enough because no answer told him exactly how long until he got sex. This isn't the first time he's done this to me. It's his favorite tactic because it looks like he's just caring and wanting to resolve the issues. But, it's actually a bash-me-fest with words that all come out sounding like he's the poor victim to my cold cruelty and he loves me so much that he can't live without me. And all he needs is promises that I'll never leave, never deny him (once I'm over my SA, this time, because he's such a generous guy), make him my king and show him all the respect he is due. After four to six hours straight of this, I usually cave and say whatever he wants to hear, so I can get sleep. This time, I didn't, so it's been four days of almost non-stop. I didn't cave completely, but I did say that - as long as BOTH OF US are genuinely trying to meet each others' needs, then I can stay.

Since he thinks that four days of non-stop diatribe IS meeting my conversation needs, he took that as golden.

It's so frustrating. I'm tired of being manipulated. He uses all the right words, but there is no substance there.

Last night, after telling me that I'm cold and not committed 100% all-in and after saying that I haven't tried to meet HIS needs in over a month (only true if sex is his only need), he tells me he loves me and is in love with me. When I don't respond immediately with the same words, I am not all in. When I explained that my lack of love for him is HIS responsibility and that I must be doing something right if he is in love with me, he dropped the subject.

I'm rambling, I'm sorry. I am very sleep deprived and I'm very unsure of what is real and true. Even about myself and my worth.

If anyone worked their way through all this, and if you have any insight into the kind of person who would do this to someone they supposedly love, I'd appreciate it. My best friend is furious that I'm still there, taking this abuse. I cringe at abuse and she's ready to write it in bold letters and paste it on my eyelids until I understand it's abuse.

Defeated and exhausted. Help!

I still haven't heard back from the lawyer. It's time to call another one.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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I would stop talking and start acting, my friend. All of this talk is making the situation worse. Have you asked him to move out? What is your plan for separation?

I would focus on your next action steps for separation and get this going.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I have asked him to move out several times. He refuses - because even knowing for years that this relationship is in the sewer he still 'has no place to go'. I no longer care. He's had opportunity to fix that. He has friends, he can sofa surf until he figures it out.

I am calling the lawyer - if she doesn't get moving forward, I'm calling a different lawyer. I have the funds.

I don't even want to bother with separation at this point. After this weekend, I see that he's willing to hold me prisoner to my own words, twisting them to his advantage, put me on the defensive and then torture me for hours after I ask, then beg him to stop. It will be better to just file for divorce and be done. This weekend was his attempt at showing me that he's working to save our marriage.

I'm going to ask blunt questions that I want blunt answers for, even if they may hurt me to hear:

Am I participating in my own abuse?

Should I be afraid, since I have yet to cave and this has gone on for many more days than usual as a result of my not caving?

Should I pack up our son and go to a shelter?

This is critical mass. I've never held out against this pressure this long before. I can't say that I know what will happen next.

I need people to start being in my face with this, so I can stop making excuses and finally get out of that house. Then, out of that marriage. I'm done.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
Am I participating in my own abuse?

I would suggest you stop any discussion and just focus on getting separated. Perhaps you can take your child and go stay in a hotel or month to month rental until he is gone? I don't know all your options.

Quote
I need people to start being in my face with this, so I can stop making excuses and finally get out of that house. Then, out of that marriage. I'm done.

Do something today. Meet with a lawyer and find out what your options are. Make plans to separate asap.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
I don't even want to bother with separation at this point. After this weekend, I see that he's willing to hold me prisoner to my own words, twisting them to his advantage, put me on the defensive and then torture me for hours after I ask, then beg him to stop. It will be better to just file for divorce and be done. This weekend was his attempt at showing me that he's working to save our marriage.

And i think you realize he has no such intention at all.. His goal is to manipulate you to his will, not to make you happy.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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God Bless you, ML.

I called and left a message. If I don't hear back by lunch, I call a different attorney. There are plenty in town.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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So true.

I am no longer going to make excuses or try to justify my actions, reactions, words or statements which may be now called lies (that I was 100% in to save this marriage).

There is nothing left to say. It doesn't even matter at this point that his behavior may or may not be abusive. It doesn't matter whether he's right or I'm right on any one topic.

This isn't a marriage and I need out. Now.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
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MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
There is nothing left to say. It doesn't even matter at this point that his behavior may or may not be abusive. It doesn't matter whether he's right or I'm right on any one topic.

I am glad you recognize this for what it is. He keeps you roped in with endless debates and guilt manipulation, but at the end of the day, you don't have to win a debate or prove anything. What matters are his actions, and you have given him ample opportunity to change his behavior.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
This is critical mass. I've never held out against this pressure this long before. I can't say that I know what will happen next.
Everytime you give in, he knows he can control you and the next time will be even more difficult. I pray you have the strength not to give in.

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Lawyer consult appointment made.

Some details I do withhold from this website in case hubby gets in here and starts reading. I haven't told him the name of this thread, but I haven't tried to hide, either. I will post when the appointment has happened and the next step decided.


ME:50 HIM:53
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I would say you participate in your own abuse. As I tell my kids when they bicker, you each have a choice of whether to engage or not. You had a choice of whether to engage in a weekend long back and forth lovebusting fest. You need to just walk away. Tell him you are feeling attacked and are not enthusiastic about the conversation and walk away. If he persists, gather your son and leave.

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Unwritten, you are right. I asked for honest observer answers and I thank you for that. I did attempt to walk away and was followed into the kitchen, our bedroom, my new private space. I did tell him that I felt attacked and would not participate in the conversation. I was followed, baited (which I did fall for too often)and even woken up at 4:30 AM. What I didn't do was take our son and leave.

What I am now doing is seeing a lawyer. This is a toxic situation. It must end. I am filing for separation and custody of our son. I will find out from this lawyer if the law is the same as three years ago, when I consulted but didn't file.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
Unwritten, you are right. I asked for honest observer answers and I thank you for that. I did attempt to walk away and was followed into the kitchen, our bedroom, my new private space. I did tell him that I felt attacked and would not participate in the conversation. I was followed, baited (which I did fall for too often)and even woken up at 4:30 AM. What I didn't do was take our son and leave.

OTF, that is abuse, plain and simple. I would make arrangements to get out of there after you speak to an attorney. When he does this to you, it is imperative that you leave,

Quote
What I am now doing is seeing a lawyer. This is a toxic situation. It must end. I am filing for separation and custody of our son. I will find out from this lawyer if the law is the same as three years ago, when I consulted but didn't file.

Perfect! But you also need to plan for the present.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I already know I need to file for legal separation, child custody, order of protection.

I also have to get in touch with a locksmith.

My employer has been informed and is supportive, knowing that H will stalk me at work and at home.

I will have to take the separation papers to the bank and work. I will have to take the child custody papers to the school.

I have to coordinate with a daycare for son's after-school care.

There will be court dates, mediation.

There will be reassurances to give to our son that both of his parents love him.

I will take part in counseling made possible through work.


ME:50 HIM:53
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OTF That is a great plan you have a lot of peace and serenity and tranquility with your son ahead of you!


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence608
Unwritten, you are right. I asked for honest observer answers and I thank you for that. I did attempt to walk away and was followed into the kitchen, our bedroom, my new private space. I did tell him that I felt attacked and would not participate in the conversation. I was followed, baited (which I did fall for too often)and even woken up at 4:30 AM. What I didn't do was take our son and leave.

What I am now doing is seeing a lawyer. This is a toxic situation. It must end. I am filing for separation and custody of our son. I will find out from this lawyer if the law is the same as three years ago, when I consulted but didn't file.

I agree with Melody- your starting to walk into dangerous territory. He could become violent. It is absolutely abuse.
This same thing has happened to me.... and I am sorry you are going through this.

Please do not stay with him anymore. Either get him kicked out of the house or take someone with you- go to your house and pack up and go somewhere until you can go back etc NOW.

Don't worry about all the non sense he has said- its all manipulation.

Good girl on seeing your lawyer now- file an emergency order if you can.

Stay focused- 1. Do not stay with him anymore
2. File all the stuff you need
3. Plan B time!

please check back in so we know you are ok...


BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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Still here. Acting awards to OTF for helping H believe all is well last night. No longer feeling guilty about lying to him as I prepare my way out.

Still in the house with him. I realize that this will confuse our son when the split occurs. He's seen his Dad try to show me lots of affection, but he's also been in the house with the four days of never-ending conversations. I have made peace with acting as if all is well and that H won. There will be lots of work to do in the healing that will follow.

I again want to thank everyone on this forum. I will also send a thank you to Dr. and Mrs. Harley. All of your support through this, through the denial, through the times when I was totally wrong and needed correction. Through the times when I took a step forward, only to retreat 5 steps. You have all been here, supporting me as I came to the only logical conclusion, and now am acting on that.

I have counselors in place. I am waiting to rally my family until after I file. I already know I have their support. I also have the support of friends and coworkers.

It may be corny and clich�, but today, with the meeting with my lawyer, is the first day of the rest of my life.


ME:50 HIM:53
MARRIED: 13 YRS, DATED 4 MONTHS PRIOR
HIS 2 KIDS: 30 & 25
OUR CHILD: 9
MOVING OUT & FILING FOR SEPARATION ??/??/??
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