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This is easily the worst part of plan b, and no you're not crazy.

If the men of your acquaintance want to get a cheap ego fix from being patronising, they can do it somewhere that is elsewhere, with someone who's not you.

The next time someone tries to take advantage of your situation again, look at them like they are crazy and say you are a single mum of four and don't have room/time/headspace for house guests.

Engage on your own terms.

When this woman is experiencing an affair (because she's the old me) you'll be an invaluable friend. But don't sweat it if she's not where you are on her journey yet.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I am experiencing something I wasn't prepared for, now that I am a single mum of four: I feel as though I get an uncomfortable amount/type of attention from other people's husbands, many of whom I have known for ages, that I definitely did not get when I was physically living with WH. This single-mum effect is making me question how I should interact with people in general

Gosh I remember that stage. Husbands were suddenly all buzzing around like flies. It is a great way to see who the bad men are. I was even contacted by 'flies' from the UK (I live mainly in the US) who would appear out of the blue.

And yes, the wives are being super foolish but that is their problem, not yours. Traumatic when your WH is/was a serial cheater as you can now see exactly how they operate. Keep your boundaries high.


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Now remarried, thank you MB
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Thank you so much Indie and Living Well! It is a relief to know it is not just me - and that I am not imagining it.

Originally Posted by living_well
Husbands were suddenly all buzzing around like flies. It is a great way to see who the bad men are. I was even contacted by 'flies' from the UK (I live mainly in the US) who would appear out of the blue.

This is so accurate!!!! That is exactly what is happening. But it totally took me by surprise. I wondered if I was suddenly giving off single signals without meaning to. I even started to think I shouldn't be putting on make up or should change my wardrobe.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
If the men of your acquaintance want to get a cheap ego fix from being patronising, they can do it somewhere that is elsewhere, with someone who's not you.

Yes! That is what it is! An ego fix for them. You're so good at getting straight to the point. That is how I will think of it from now on. But it does make me worry for my friends. I guess this is what most men are like. They like the opportunity to be kind to a single mother. They like engaging with women that their wives think are "safe". And if I hadn't been through all this rubbish with my own WH, then I think I would have been duped into thinking the kindness is genuine and even attractive. I guess societal prejudices against single mothers are partly for those reasons.......


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
But it does make me worry for my friends. I guess this is what most men are like. They like the opportunity to be kind to a single mother. They like engaging with women that their wives think are "safe". And if I hadn't been through all this rubbish with my own WH, then I think I would have been duped into thinking the kindness is genuine and even attractive. I guess societal prejudices against single mothers are partly for those reasons.......

I found the women fell into two camps; those that did not give it a second thought and those that suddenly would not let their men within a million miles of me.

How is the divorce going. Are you making progress?


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Originally Posted by living_well
How is the divorce going. Are you making progress?

Unfortunately my attorney has had quite a run of bad luck. She had a knee operation in March, her husband has just been admitted to hospital for what I think is a small stroke, and while visiting him she fell and broke her leg in three places. She put me in touch with another attorney to help with my work stuff, but the divorce is now on pause while she recovers. We are stuck at the stage of trying to get WH's bank statements. I knew he would not provide them when asked, so we will need to go back to court to compell him or obtain them from the institutions directly.

Most of my time at the moment is concerned with my work issues

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/26/18 10:44 PM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I am allocating about 20% of my income per month to lawyers so now have to pace myself a bit because I've got the work stuff, the divorce stuff, and the ongoing legal costs associated with OC (social worker assessment, foreign service of documents to his biological mother, translation costs for all court documents, etc). We have issued a warrant of execution to collect outstanding monies owed by WH since December and his South African bank account is now being attached for the debt. But I suspect he will just stop putting money in it, so then we will need to go back to court for a garnishment order. In the meantime, he has built up more debt resulting from him downgrading our medical insurance in violation of a December court order and causing me to incurr out of pocket medical expenses. He's also playing games with visitation. He refuses to supply a schedule of visits for the year in January when he was asked to and instead tries to just turn up when he feels like it, which is extremely frustrating for me. He told the kids he was coming in June, but I think we have managed to derail those plans because I had already arranged and paid for a holiday for them, along with a summer school programme. He does not believe he needs to make arrangements in advance. I really hope my lawyer can do something about that before the divorce is finalised because otherwise it is going to be a stress going forward for years.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/26/18 10:44 PM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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So sorry, I thought we warned you about this!

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
This is so accurate!!!! That is exactly what is happening. But it totally took me by surprise. I wondered if I was suddenly giving off single signals without meaning to. I even started to think I shouldn't be putting on make up or should change my wardrobe.
......

Once you get through the '"What did I do to attract this much attention; ring a dinner bell?" guilt and see that there are *some* men (not all!) constantly waiting for opportunities, your new "It's not me making it weird, it's you" confidence will carry you over the worst of it.

What they want is a doe eyed look of gratitude which puts you in a hilariously powerful position to puncture their hot air baloon once you're on to them. Plus they've morally freed you from giving any concern to their feelings. You can choose between any number of tools:


a) Talking over them and looking through them. If they interrupt your conversation with their wives, flap your hands at them like 'mummies are talking dear'.
b) Annoyance. Anyone who tries to 'help' uninvited with your domestic arrangements is Marie Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond, but without status of being a MiL, you can be much more frank. "I said no thank you" *rolls eyes*.
c) Exclusion: "Lets have a girlie lunch!" or "Mums and kids sleepover at my place". There's no need for you to cross paths with the husbands at all. If you hear "Dave hasn't seen you in ages" agree heartily and gladly.
d) Ignoring: I bet these guys love to hold court and pontificate. I bet they suck up all the air. Meet all jokes with eyes that are watching paint dry. If you are cornered, wait until they work up to full steam, and wander off aimlessly at the peak of their speech. If they call on you for an opinion "Oh were you speaking to me? /I thought you were just talking / Oh I wasn't listening/ I find x topic really interesting but I wasn't really listening to you"

These manoeuvres will take out 80 pc.

There is, sadly, a subset of morons who refuse to be punctured because they are usually the most pernicious sexists, who believe women don't truly have opinions, preferences or feelings worthy of noticing or respecting. Therefore they believe they can force you into compliance and you, a nice polite lady person, will be required to submit. Ha! Only direct communication + bluntness will work on this type:

"Don't send direct Facebook messages to me please. I don't like it." + block.
"No I don't need any help with x. When I need help I can ask for it. I don't like offers I haven't asked for" + closing door in face if they show up with tool kit or other nonsense.
"No you can't stay here. When I have invited people to stay they usually know about it" + close door in face.
"We're not that close"
"You're overstepping"
"I don't like this and you're making me really uncomfortable "

Also develop a teachers eyebrow. You can raise it and leave it up there as long as it takes. Or you can hoist it, drop it and move into an 'I'll pretend you didn't say that" subject change.

Lastly, be prepared for the unexpected. Be prepared to say something like 'This is weird' because its gonna get weird. One guy just up and started holding my hand....I had no idea of what to say I was THAT flabbergasted. I was prepared for round two...but at the time!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
. But I suspect he will just stop putting money in it, so then we will need to go back to court for a garnishment order.

You're definitely getting the hang of it! Without your restraining influence I think he'll eventually go under entirely. Get as much off him as you can in the interim, but plan for the day he's bankrupt.

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
. He does not believe he needs to make arrangements in advance. I really hope my lawyer can do something about that before the divorce is finalised because otherwise it is going to be a stress going forward for years.

You've included details that he was an abusive husband right? Can you call the cops on him if he shows up unexpectedly? Or put some kind of order in place?

Can you also link his visitation rights to financially supporting the children? You might get rid of him entirely this way.

What about submitting the visitation yourself, give him options a, b or c "to cut down on delays where WH is accidentally choosing dates the children aren't free. These are all the available options so please choose one by x date which is when I will need to add more dates to the children's calender. If i hear nothing i will go with option a".


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
We are stuck at the stage of trying to get WH's bank statements. I knew he would not provide them when asked, so we will need to go back to court to compell him or obtain them from the institutions directly.

I recommend you go directly to the subpoena route. Be sure to ask for full destination bank details for all outgoing wires. That will allow you to easily follow the money trail as he empties the account and opens another.

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Most of my time at the moment is concerned with fighting my evil employers. You were totally right: they are terrified of me smile

Expect them to offer you some kind of settlement and decide what you would accept to walk away. Then make sure this does not become marital :-(


3 adult children
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
. He does not believe he needs to make arrangements in advance. I really hope my lawyer can do something about that before the divorce is finalised because otherwise it is going to be a stress going forward for years.

You've included details that he was an abusive husband right? Can you call the cops on him if he shows up unexpectedly?
[/quote]

twoxfour twoxfour twoxfour


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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I think the thing that gets me down is feeling like WH's bad choices in life don't seem to be causing him any problems at all - and that hurts my sense of justice. I have the same issue with my employers. How can there be so many evil people in the world that don't seem to experience any negative consequences to their behaviour?
They are where they are because they deflect consequences and ignore truth. They are masters at manufacturing an alternate reality in which they try to live and simply blame and hate on others where their fake world falls apart. I've given up trying to understand how good will triumph. I'm not the one who has to make sure everything turns out just and equitable and I certainly can't make other people process and accept their consequences! I can stop "fixing" or assuming negative consequences that are not mine and I can move on to brighter and better things.

I wish you success with your family and your job. You are inspiring. Guard your time and energy in the fight against evil so you can stay a healthy and sane mum. Sometimes the best offensive move is to simply create more good in the world. I love what someone said about teaching the kids to build a good life in spite of the insanity. If we wait to eradicate evil and insanity before we move on it's only going to make more crazy.

Last edited by buildsherhouse; 05/31/18 04:18 PM.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Once you get through the '"What did I do to attract this much attention; ring a dinner bell?" guilt and see that there are *some* men (not all!) constantly waiting for opportunities, your new "It's not me making it weird, it's you" confidence will carry you over the worst of it.

What they want is a doe eyed look of gratitude which puts you in a hilariously powerful position to puncture their hot air baloon once you're on to them. Plus they've morally freed you from giving any concern to their feelings. You can choose between any number of tools:


a) Talking over them and looking through them. If they interrupt your conversation with their wives, flap your hands at them like 'mummies are talking dear'.
b) Annoyance. Anyone who tries to 'help' uninvited with your domestic arrangements is Marie Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond, but without status of being a MiL, you can be much more frank. "I said no thank you" *rolls eyes*.
c) Exclusion: "Lets have a girlie lunch!" or "Mums and kids sleepover at my place". There's no need for you to cross paths with the husbands at all. If you hear "Dave hasn't seen you in ages" agree heartily and gladly.
d) Ignoring: I bet these guys love to hold court and pontificate. I bet they suck up all the air. Meet all jokes with eyes that are watching paint dry. If you are cornered, wait until they work up to full steam, and wander off aimlessly at the peak of their speech. If they call on you for an opinion "Oh were you speaking to me? /I thought you were just talking / Oh I wasn't listening/ I find x topic really interesting but I wasn't really listening to you"

These manoeuvres will take out 80 pc.

There is, sadly, a subset of morons who refuse to be punctured because they are usually the most pernicious sexists, who believe women don't truly have opinions, preferences or feelings worthy of noticing or respecting. Therefore they believe they can force you into compliance and you, a nice polite lady person, will be required to submit. Ha! Only direct communication + bluntness will work on this type:

"Don't send direct Facebook messages to me please. I don't like it." + block.
"No I don't need any help with x. When I need help I can ask for it. I don't like offers I haven't asked for" + closing door in face if they show up with tool kit or other nonsense.
"No you can't stay here. When I have invited people to stay they usually know about it" + close door in face.
"We're not that close"
"You're overstepping"
"I don't like this and you're making me really uncomfortable "

Also develop a teachers eyebrow. You can raise it and leave it up there as long as it takes. Or you can hoist it, drop it and move into an 'I'll pretend you didn't say that" subject change.

Lastly, be prepared for the unexpected. Be prepared to say something like 'This is weird' because its gonna get weird. One guy just up and started holding my hand....I had no idea of what to say I was THAT flabbergasted. I was prepared for round two...but at the time!

Hi Indie, this is such brilliant advice - thank you!!!! You have given me a practical toolbox that i can use on a daily basis. It is my birthday on Saturday and I have arranged a mums-only dinner - and still some husbands wanted to come along!! I love "this is weird" laugh laugh I will be using that a lot......and will practice my teachers' eyebrow.....


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Without your restraining influence I think he'll eventually go under entirely. Get as much off him as you can in the interim, but plan for the day he's bankrupt.

Yeah, this has been in the back of my mind for a while. I am happy with the maintenance now, but I know it won't last. I also suspect that when I get his bank statements, I might find evidence of wrong doing with respect to contracts and stuff in his previous job, which I will report to appropriate people and then the situation will be out of my hands.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
You've included details that he was an abusive husband right? Can you call the cops on him if he shows up unexpectedly? Or put some kind of order in place?

Yes all this information is in the divorce summons. I had a restraining order in our previous country of residence but my attorney was reluctant to apply for one here unless we had a new demonstration of violent behaviour in this country. And now that I live in a security estate (which I think is the same as a gated community in the US), I seem to have protected myself well enough that I have decreased the likelihood that he will behave like that again. If he showed up unexpectedly, I would just refuse to give permission for him to enter the estate. Maybe I am being too sensitive about the frustration of him refusing to make arrangements? He has only actually seen the children twice in a year, so I guess it doesn't impinge on my mental state too much.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Can you also link his visitation rights to financially supporting the children? You might get rid of him entirely this way.


That's a definite no-go. The South African children's act has a basic premise that it is in the best interests of children to have reasonable contact with both parents and it is very difficult to argue against that.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
What about submitting the visitation yourself, give him options a, b or c "to cut down on delays where WH is accidentally choosing dates the children aren't free. These are all the available options so please choose one by x date which is when I will need to add more dates to the children's calender. If i hear nothing i will go with option a".

This is an excellent idea!!!!! I don't know why I hadn't thought of that!! Yes, I will just tell him when we are available and he has to fit in with those times or not come at all. Brilliant!!!!! And that will prevent him from saying I am stopping him seeing the children because we have already given him ample opportunity to specify his own dates and he has failed. Thank you!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by living_well
I recommend you go directly to the subpoena route. Be sure to ask for full destination bank details for all outgoing wires. That will allow you to easily follow the money trail as he empties the account and opens another.

Thanks a lot Living Well. My attorney is always reluctant to take a litigation-first approach. She says the judge will think I am litigious and that that my make me look bad. So it means we have to always give him a million opportunities to do the right thing before finally concluding that going to court is the only option. But I know we will get there eventually and yes I will definitely make sure that we get all the destination bank details. Thank you so much for your advice on this. I know i am going to uncover bad stuff in those statements.....

Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Most of my time at the moment is concerned with fighting my evil employers. You were totally right: they are terrified of me smile

Expect them to offer you some kind of settlement and decide what you would accept to walk away. Then make sure this does not become marital :-(

I've got a figure in my mind that I would be prepared to accept. But their first offer was nowhere near.....and made me think they don't properly understand the risk I pose to them!! They have just totally changed the "charges" against me for the third time. I am now being accused of not doing things which I have emails showing I did. It is so bizarre. I think they might not realise I still have access to ALL my emails. I am crossing fingers that we can drag out this disciplinary process for a few months to make sure that the divorce can be finalised in the meantime. And then I will put a good potion of the settlement in my pension.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by buildsherhouse
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I think the thing that gets me down is feeling like WH's bad choices in life don't seem to be causing him any problems at all - and that hurts my sense of justice. I have the same issue with my employers. How can there be so many evil people in the world that don't seem to experience any negative consequences to their behaviour?
They are where they are because they deflect consequences and ignore truth. They are masters at manufacturing an alternate reality in which they try to live and simply blame and hate on others where their fake world falls apart. I've given up trying to understand how good will triumph. I'm not the one who has to make sure everything turns out just and equitable and I certainly can't make other people process and accept their consequences! I can stop "fixing" or assuming negative consequences that are not mine and I can move on to brighter and better things.

I wish you success with your family and your job. You are inspiring. Guard your time and energy in the fight against evil so you can stay a healthy and sane mum. Sometimes the best offensive move is to simply create more good in the world. I love what someone said about teaching the kids to build a good life in spite of the insanity. If we wait to eradicate evil and insanity before we move on it's only going to make more crazy.

Hi Buildsherhouse, thank you so much for this comment. It really made me think over the weekend. Yes, I do not know how good will triumph. But somehow it does. And what I have found MB teaches us is that being happy and stable should be the goal all the time, and especially while craziness is swirling around, not that it should be some future aim that is never achieved. If we are not happy and stable, we cannot hope to fight evil effectively anyway.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/04/18 12:36 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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How are things going Chalk. Making any progress?


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Originally Posted by living_well
How are things going Chalk. Making any progress?

Hi Living Well, sorry for taking a while to respond. I just turned 40 and took my kids away for a small holiday to celebrate.....although I now know that holidaying as a single parent with 4 kids is not all that much fun laugh

Hmmm. Not sure I have really made much progress. But I am struggling with a new issue: I seem to be a raging ball of hormonal urges. I am trying desperately not to fall in love with my lawyer (the man who is helping me with work stuff rather than the woman doing my divorce who broke her leg) because he is being so nice to me all the time. I really have no experience of randomly falling in love with people. The last time I felt attracted to someone who wasn't my husband was 2013, and that was the only time since I got married. It didn't really cause any problems because the guy was Canadian and only visiting SA for a joint project we were working on, so was fairly easy to cut contact with. I told my husband about him and deleted his number and email address - even though nothing at all had happened, I just felt like I should admit the feelings to my husband. Now that I don't have a husband to admit things to, I thought I should post here so that you can help me keep myself in check. Maybe i am just getting a bit lonely.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 06/22/18 03:48 PM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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I don't know of any cure except non contact. Its pretty normal for you to be very susceptible at this stage.

Have you been having in depth or personal conversations with him? It might be possible to scroll the relationship back to a more business like one if so.

If it's just that he's earnestly helpful in this role, and that's meeting your need for affection coincidentally, then you may be screwed because the only way to fix that would be to cut him loose. Or have an advocate deal with him; blame your stepping back on the stress of the situation.

My sympathies. I was able to avoid male friendships and keep business relationships distant, but I don't think I would have foreseen this.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
I don't know of any cure except non contact. Its pretty normal for you to be very susceptible at this stage.

Have you been having in depth or personal conversations with him? It might be possible to scroll the relationship back to a more business like one if so.

If it's just that he's earnestly helpful in this role, and that's meeting your need for affection coincidentally, then you may be screwed because the only way to fix that would be to cut him loose. Or have an advocate deal with him; blame your stepping back on the stress of the situation.

My sympathies. I was able to avoid male friendships and keep business relationships distant, but I don't think I would have foreseen this.

Thanks so much Indie. You have really made me feel better. I was feeling like a terrible person. No personal conversations and no non-business communication but we have spent a LOT of time together over the past few weeks and i can feel the tension. I also got the impression that he is organising meetings with me which aren't strictly necessary - including two full day meetings on Saturday and Sunday last week. Do advocates normally sit with the client to draft everything without the attorney being there?! He also keeps buying me breakfasts and lunches and only charged me for 1.5 or the 5 days we were meeting last week.....which is quite non-lawyer-like behaviour.

I also found out from someone else that he has taken my divorce attorney to task for not doing a good enough job on my cases, and brought in this other attorney to do my work stuff, who then subsequently brought him in as the advocate. I did not know until last week that it was him that organised all these things for me. I thought my divirce attorney had found the labour law attorney herself. So all in all he is helping me out a lot. There is no inappropriate communication but i do feel a bit awkward about the fact that he hugs me quite hard every time we meet. Why don't all countries shake hands like us brits?!?! Much safer!!!!

I think I will focus on avoiding being alone with him, and make sure we always include the attorney of we are scheduling meetings. I think my work legal stuff should be done by end of August so I have only got to control myself until then


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Tricky situation because you really need someone to advocate for you. I have had an advocate helping me post divorce (failure to disclose/divide the assets). They are a million times better than lawyers as they can cut through the issues.

I agree with Indie, no personal conversation. If he asks you how your children are, answer with 'oh by the way, we still have not resolved xyzzy issue'.

Is there a polite way for you to duck the hugs?


3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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