Sorry for the delay... I don't really know how to describe my situation without almost writing a book about the last 18 years, but I'll try.
So my wife (37) and I (40) (married 12 yrs known each other 18 yrs - 3 daughters 11, 9, 7) are currently in phone coaching with Steve (since mid-January) and have read most of the books (HNHN, LB, Surviving An Affair, He Wins She Wins, Fall In Love; Stay In Love)
So our dating life was not great -- I fell in love with her and she didn't with me.
Our early friendship/dating was really rocky and there were some cheating (on her part) and extended breakups and broken engagements.
We did end up getting pregnant and subsequently married.
Throughout our marriage, we had some rough times and good times.
We moved around early on and have never really had family help and did a lot of things wrong.
Not enough her and I time and a lot of emotional dishonesty (hidden feelings).
And I was not as good at family commitment or at least in the way she desired early on.
So about ten years into our marriage (Jan 2017); we are on a date night and we are starting to have a really good patch.
Girls are older we are spending more time together and together as a family.
She decides to tell me that a few years previous that she had found herself struggling with feelings for other men and wanted to tell me.
At first I was ok as I understand everyone from time to time will see an attractive (physical or personality etc) person.
What was the sinker was when she added that she had never felt that way towards me.
She described the feelings as feeling drawn to them and tingles - like butterflies etc.
So this leads to a lot of fights, hurt feelings, reading books, marriage classes at church, counseling, and digging through the past for answers on my part.
So my wife never wanted to be with me - in fact even early on in our friendship she never was drawn to me physically and found my personality to not be to her liking.
She liked having me around to deal with her boredom/loneliness -- she even got jealous when I dated someone else in college; but just because it was taking my time from her
and she didn't really have anyone else.
The cheating when dating was for the most part caused by drinking and depression (I already knew this) but also because she was not certain about me and one of the guys she slept with she found herself struggling with being attracted to him after their drunken encounter.
Once we got past the cheating and breakups etc - dating went well for a while and we got pregnant and married. After we are married she has found herself attracted/drawn to/wanting various men for various reasons -- sometimes personality or just 'the way they carry themselves'. Some she can't explain like one random guy she found her 'whole body just wanting him'
After hearing this and struggling with it and just tired of it... the random guy she found herself just wanting was in Oct 2018; I move out mid-Nov 2018 - we have a phone consultation with Steve and I am up to talking to someone - but tell her she needs to pay for it.
After finding messages to family/friends and talking with some family in late Nov 2018 and basically finding out that for years she has struggled with being with me... never had the love feelings for me...
and this isn't to bash her she honestly was presenting it to people as hey just because your not happy you can't just bail out etc -- in a way trying to encourage honoring commitments etc; I decide this is over and go over to the house and tell her we are done and basically I'll wait till she gets health insurance (full time work) until I get papers but there is nothing to salvage if she never loved me - I'm very angry that for one it does appear she knew she could feel some level of attraction to people before we got married (maybe not as intense as the recent tingles, etc) and that before we got married on two different times I asked her if she wasn't into me and she lied for whatever reason (didn't want to hurt my feelings and thought I would eventually leave her anyway is what she told me) -- I also figured I can never be the man she wants and at least some of the recent tingle feelings (the guys are unavailable) for guys she has said they seemed more caring and light hearted and honestly wouldn't be a bad type of guy and so we can divorce and she can go be happy now that she knows what she wants.
So through Dec-Mid Jan I act really stupid; I basically begin living as a single guy and when out of town for work I go on some dates, talk to women online, and I also allow myself to get closer to a female co-worker (one I was already talking to more than I should have as we found a bound in discussing our marital woes) and I would say I have an emotional affair with her although neither of us professed feelings beyond friendship - it was not good. My wife is during this time making lots of efforts to come on to me as much as possible (we never really had a dead bedroom issue which is surprising given our past and her unhappiness) -- as I'm not physical with anyone else and like the new attention I give in sometimes; but eventually tell her this is going to cause confusion for me. So eventually she goes on a date with a guy her friend sets her up with and also begins talking to two guys online. At first I have some jealousy but am more just hopeful she will be careful and eventually find whatever she is looking for. I do get upset when I learn who the guy she actually dated was as he is just not a good character.
So mid-Jan I have a rough night with one of my daughters being really upset about the separation and also I am not happy with my behavior. I decided to stop any talking I am doing with other women and cut off all communication with them and end my friendship/EA with my coworker.
I go see my wife and ask her if she really wants to work on this and tell her I am open to talking to Steve again -- honestly the promise of the marriage builder program of being able to create romantic love even if it wasn't there to begin with was the selling point. I also tell her I don't think I can stay just for the kids (as a family for the most part we are great; but as a couple not so much); but having kids makes this worth trying to fix. I also tell her I'm not talking or doing anything with anyone else; because anyone I meet in this weird separated state isn't going to be good for me.
She tells me she wants to and is very excited and signs us up for the coaching; but does ask if she can keep talking to the guys online until we actually start in late January; I'm not super comfortable but I know she is lonely and hurting and this may sound naive on my part but she does tell me they are just chatting about random stuff -- and well I know there were two ladies I was talking to online where our conversations were only about family deaths, life troubles, and one liked to exchange memes etc -- so I said ok. Well after we start our coaching two individual sessions and right before our first joint session. She confesses to me (after I pry a little bit) that the conversations weren't so innocent and towards the end they got risque and she sent some inappropriate pictures to them and one guy actually sent her the pic they say women hate... but apparently this was the first time my wife got one and it turned her on. This caused her to ask the other guy for one as well; apparently, this one wasn't as exciting to her. The kicker came when she told me that the guy she went on the date with (that she didn't like, found annoying, had bad character, etc) that she had started messaging him again. When he asked her why she was talking to him (because she had stopped earlier and had told me as much) she told him that we were going to work on it for the kids but it was tough and just talking/flirty etc was fun and we hadn't really started yet.... Well she sent him a picture and he saved it and this freaked her out as he also made some joke about having collateral on her etc.
So here we are -- neither of us is talking to or doing anything with other people (as certain as I can be; but we are pretty transparent and I know how to monitor things etc... although I guess anyone could pull off a one-night stand with a stranger) -- and we are reading the books, filling out the forms, spending time together, actually looking at moving back in together (most nights we are both in the same place) but we still have some fights and frustrations and questions...
My wife and I are both concerned that even doing all the work that the Romantic Love feelings won't ever really be there and honestly if they do come how will we know?
It is at times dishearting because almost all the examples here and from other books/counselors refer to rekindling something; but what if it really wasn't there?
We would love to hear from someone that had a similar situation and how they are doing?
Are those tingly, butterfly type feelings even possible between us?
One marriage counselor has told us we are just talking about that initial animal magnetism and it's not possible but not important.
Her personal counselor told her if she didn't have them that they can't be created.
Even Steve has told us that it can't be like you just met and said some of the feelings she had for others were microwave feelings and we are working more like a slow cooker.
He even gave a great plane analogy to marriage -- there is the exciting take off and then you are in flight and you can either realize your flying and enjoy the ride and how amazing it is... or just sit there waiting to land; the disheartening part was he did say we can't recreate the take off.
She has said she does like the way I care for her and the way I love her and she feels like she should desire me and that I'm good for her; but it is a struggle.
I worry that we do all the work and we just end up in the like a brother type love.
Since we began coaching some of the things I have learned from her are what made me question the lust/love thing originally...
The question from the original post was does using the MB principles create desiring sex because your spouse does it for you; not just desiring it out of love/closeness?
My wife has said she feels disconnected in that it is safer to have strong sexual desire for someone you aren't emotionally connected to; she doesn't think this is a good thing.
So some of her feelings towards other guys that she has told me about make sense in that I could see how she could see the possibility of needs being met or actual needs being met and attraction growing if not put in check.
But some of the others it appears the guys wouldn't offer much (in fact she even said some she knew wouldn't be good for a relationship) but she could still feel drawn to them in a sexual way.
Sorry to ramble; just not sure what to make of my situation.
