Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
This is my first post. Thank you for taking the time to read it.
Married to my wife for 25 years. First marriage for both. Seven children (8 to 22), five still at home.
I tend to be the more permissive laid-back “buddy” parent, while she is more strict but loving. I work full-time with good salary. She stays home and does homeschooling lite. No infidelity, as far as I know.

Marriage was off to a good start but last 20 years, not so good. Here’s the pattern:

• Everything is going “fine”, or so it seems
• I do or say something which leads to her being offended/annoyed
• She gets angry with me, over that, or something from a week ago, or something from a year ago. Anger may also be taken out on kids.
• She essentially leaves the marriage – stops talking nice to me, becomes belligerent, hostile, non-affectionate, non-sexual. I’m her worst enemy.
• I remain perplexed as to what is happening
• After 0-2 weeks, I convince her to open up and she explains why she is upset
• I either 1) apologize, or 2) try to clear things up, or 3) rage inside because of the injustice, or occasionally 4) we agree to some kind of compromise.
• Miraculously we return back to step 1

This has happened 20-30 times. I occasionally do dumb things - legitimate offenses maybe 20% but the rest is just silly misunderstandings, minor disagreements (how much candy, TV, video games the kids should have), etc… She amplifies the offense, looking for reasons to be more angry (“you looked at me funny at a party last year”). She makes false accusations, accusing me of thinking or intending things that I was not. She’s also said some pretty unkind things: I’m not attracted to you, I don’t want to have more kids with you, you’re lazy (very far from the truth).

Couple months ago, decided I couldn’t take the abuse(?) anymore and she agreed to marital counseling, which we did for a month, each of us individually with the counselor. But when the counselor wanted to meet with the two of us together, she refused to continue. So I’m stuck.

I feel like my continued attempts to appease and keep peace in the home is not working, because the cycle hasn’t broken. It needs to break, but I honestly can’t determine the best way to do so. Some things I’ve considered:

• Stop attending church with her. The church has no idea of any of this and she is afraid our friends will find out what’s going on and maybe this fear will motivate her to work on the marriage.
• Move out, but stay local so I can see the kid every evening. But as long as she gets to keep the big house and lifestyle, she might actually like this, since it doesn’t seem she likes me that much. I’ll be poor but at least have peace.
• Ask her to move out. Not crazy about this idea.
• Just stay put and accept being roommates. The Christian thing to do?

I am depressed, discouraged, and tired, but I want this to work.
Thank you.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by CoffeeBrake
• Everything is going “fine”, or so it seems
I do or say something which leads to her being offended/annoyed
• She gets angry with me, over that, or something from a week ago, or something from a year ago. Anger may also be taken out on kids.
• She essentially leaves the marriage – stops talking nice to me, becomes belligerent, hostile, non-affectionate, non-sexual. I’m her worst enemy.
• I remain perplexed as to what is happening
• After 0-2 weeks, I convince her to open up and she explains why she is upset
• I either 1) apologize, or 2) try to clear things up, or 3) rage inside because of the injustice, or occasionally 4) we agree to some kind of compromise.
• Miraculously we return back to step 1

This has happened 20-30 times. I occasionally do dumb things - legitimate offenses maybe 20% but the rest is just silly misunderstandings, minor disagreements (how much candy, TV, video games the kids should have), etc… She amplifies the offense, looking for reasons to be more angry (“you looked at me funny at a party last year”). She makes false accusations, accusing me of thinking or intending things that I was not. She’s also said some pretty unkind things: I’m not attracted to you, I don’t want to have more kids with you, you’re lazy (very far from the truth).
Welcome to MB.

What are the things you do or say that lead to her being offended? What are the "legitimate offenses maybe 20%"?

You say that you apologise or try to clear things up, but do you take her complaint seriously? - which is to say: do you stop the offending behaviour?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by SugarCane
What are the things you do or say that lead to her being offended? What are the "legitimate offenses maybe 20%"?
There are many examples but they fall into these categories:

A misunderstanding in the bedroom on the honeymoon which she made a big deal of and I apologized that she felt bad.

I made a job change that worked out OK but not the greatest and she was mad at me (while on our second honeymoon) for leaving the original job. Didn't think I did anything wrong, but I tried to sooth things over by explaining I would try to do better in the future.

We had friends over, and on their way out, she switched on a light in the foyer that had a problem (it produced a burning smell). Anticipating the burning smell that might come, I switched on another light instead. This offended her, and I apologized for her feeling of embarrassment.

We were in a church that was trending towards a different style of worship music that she did not approve of. She was offended that I did not bring the family out of the church sooner. I did not apologize for this.

In another church, there was a big problem and it took a while for me to see it and remove the family. She was upset at my leadership in that situation, and I agreed, apologized and have since learned much from that experience.

On several occasions, we would be at gatherings, where I said something or I looked at her, or gestured to her, in a way that made her feel disrespected. I have apologized a couple times for this, and tried hard to make sure that in my heart and externally, I'm respecting her in public. But now she is literally making things up. So I've decided not to go to gatherings with her.

At an anniversary party hosted for us by our small church, in the middle of the party, I discovered we were late in bringing our son to his music recital, because the wrong start time was communicated to me. I hate being late for things so I freaked out a bit and rushed the family out the door. She was outraged by this. I apologized for making something of a scene, but after speaking to the pastor about it later, he thought my behavior wasn't a big deal.

Ironically, she causes the family quite a bit of embarrassment. Her behavior has strained relationships with other families. She is always making us late for things, especially church.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
You say that you apologise or try to clear things up, but do you take her complaint seriously? - which is to say: do you stop the offending behaviour?
OH YES. I always listen intently to her complaints and try to stop the thing that offended her. Though lately I've been pushing back a little, trying to show her that she has no legitimate reason to be offended by such minor things (or things she made up).

I should elaborate on her behavior towards the children. Last month I heard from our 22yo that in his growing years, she had many angry outbursts, sending him to his room crying. Our 21yo daughter handled it differently - she clammed up, and now is incapable of expressing affection towards her mom or me. When another daughter was 14 she was so stressed that I sent her to visit family out-of-town for a month. Recently my wife made a new family rule that brought our 13yo son to tears and I've seen other angry outbursts that caused our youngest to cry (that was recent, and was the last straw, at which time I requested counseling for us). In counseling she recognized that anger was her biggest problem but hasn't yet decided to end it.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by CoffeeBrake
• Stop attending church with her. The church has no idea of any of this and she is afraid our friends will find out what’s going on and maybe this fear will motivate her to work on the marriage.
• Move out, but stay local so I can see the kid every evening. But as long as she gets to keep the big house and lifestyle, she might actually like this, since it doesn’t seem she likes me that much. I’ll be poor but at least have peace.
• Ask her to move out. Not crazy about this idea.
• Just stay put and accept being roommates. The Christian thing to do?
E: Use the Marriage Builders programme to learn how to identify and stop the many love busters you commit, and to learn how to create romantic love in your marriage.

You have identified many love busters - ones that you fail to recognise that you commit. You do not take her complaints seriously and this is destroying any love she has for you.

Have you read any of the free articles written by Dr Harley and available on this site?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
I have read some of the free articles, and His Needs Her Needs, and will check out the full program. Thanks.

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
E
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
E
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
So sorry for the reasons that have brought you here, CoffeeBrake. I almost never post to this forum, as I am generally a mere reader, but a few things in your post waved in front of me like a giant red flag, and compelled me to respond:

Originally Posted by CoffeeBrake
• Anger may also be taken out on kids.

You also described that she has caused the children to come to tears with her outbursts, that one child has been so traumatized that she can no longer show affection to either of you, and that another was so badly stressed that you needed to send her out of her own home. This is a huge warning sign, in my view, that there is more going on than a lack of communication or love busters on your part, because your wife is doing this towards her own children, as well as to you.

Has she also used similar tactics with your children, i.e. prolonged silent treatment when they don't know what they've done wrong, withholding affection until they apologize or grovel enough to appease her? Normal parents do not take out anger felt for their spouse on their children, and they certainly don't withdraw their love of their children for any reason. The tactics of your wife which you describe are those of abuse- it is a way abusers (and narcissists in particular) attempt to exert absolute control over those around them, by making everyone walk on eggshells and live in fear that Jekyll may turn into Hyde at any moment. I sadly speak from experience, and instantly recognized the pattern you describe. I strongly suspect there is more happening here than a lack of effort on your part, but that's just my two cents. In any case, her abusive behavior is completely unacceptable- both for you and your children, and I hope you will make sure that your children are protected from her first and foremost.

Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 4
Quote
Has she also used similar tactics with your children, i.e. prolonged silent treatment when they don't know what they've done wrong, withholding affection until they apologize or grovel enough to appease her?

Thank you for the response. I would say 'no', she does not treat the children that way. They do work pretty hard to appease her. She believes the anger outbursts are somewhat justified - she thinks they only happen because the kids are not doing their chores on time, not finishing their homework, or something similar. In reality, they can happen at any time. This behavior, while not justified, is less mysterious and I've heard it can happen to people with anger problems who are also under stress.

The real confusion is why she treats me this way. She sets me up to fail, then blames me for it. It doesn't make sense, even if I was a horrible husband. Looking back, it started on night two of the honeymoon, which went something like this: we were in Hawaii, and at bedtime, she put on a long, full-length, plaid flannel winter nightgown, buttoned to the top. I thought to myself "OK I guess we're going to sleep" so kissed her good night, rolled over and went to sleep. Couple days later she started crying, telling me how upset she was that I had not wanted to get together. I was very sympathetic and said that, by the way she had dressed, it seemed she was not interested at that time. [Apparently that was the only outfit she had planned to bring to the honeymoon. When her friends found out about it a few days prior to the wedding, they quickly took her shopping and made her buy something more suitable.] The conversation went well and it seemed like we worked things out, but over time it became clear that sexual intimacy was not a strong point in our marriage (though not as bad as it could be). I brought it up several times over the years, and the reason she always gave was - she looked back on our honeymoon, and how I treated her that second night, and she said she lost sexual interest at that time. So it was my fault. This pattern of setting up to fail, me "failing", and getting blamed for the side-effects, continues. I would love some insight into why this happens because I've never heard of such a thing, and no-one has been able to shed any light on it.

Coming to this decision was painful but last week, I asked her to leave. We met with the marriage counselor and all agreed that a time of separation was needful. After she left, subsequent notes from her confirm this was the right thing to do. And there is peace in the home, for which I am thankful.

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
E
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
E
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by CoffeeBrake
They do work pretty hard to appease her. She believes the anger outbursts are somewhat justified - she thinks they only happen because the kids are not doing their chores on time, not finishing their homework, or something similar. In reality, they can happen at any time. This behavior, while not justified, is less mysterious and I've heard it can happen to people with anger problems who are also under stress.

Mere anger problems from stress by a parent do not cause children to become so withdrawn that even into adulthood they can no longer show affection for their parents. Nor does it result in children being so stressed that one parent chooses to send them out of their own home. Please re-read what you wrote about the effects on your children. These are not normal responses to a stressed out parent, they are responses of children who have suffered abuse. Your wife has been and is abusing your children, which is why the outbursts can happen at any time, without any reason behind them. Abusers will invent reasons to abuse their victims, because it's about *control*.

Quote
This pattern of setting up to fail, me "failing", and getting blamed for the side-effects, continues. I would love some insight into why this happens because I've never heard of such a thing, and no-one has been able to shed any light on it.

As I mentioned in my previous post, what you have described are classic tactics of control, and is a very recognizable pattern to anyone who has lived in a house with someone who has narcissistic personality traits. If you genuinely would like insight about this pattern of behavior, I would highly recommend that you do a bit of research on 'covert narcissist parents/spouses', and see if any of it seems familiar. I could be entirely wrong, but everything you've written is fraught with red flags that more is happening here, the biggest flag being the extreme effect your wife's behavior has had on your children.

Quote
Coming to this decision was painful but last week, I asked her to leave. We met with the marriage counselor and all agreed that a time of separation was needful. After she left, subsequent notes from her confirm this was the right thing to do. And there is peace in the home, for which I am thankful.

I'm glad things are peaceful now, but please keep your guard up. It is likely that after some time your wife will soon want to apologize and become very loving without actually making real lasting changes (this is an abuser's tactic known as 'hoovering'- trying to win you back so that they can go back to abusing). Above all, please make sure your children are protected.




Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (NewEveryDay), 1,357 guests, and 77 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5