Hello. I am a newbie to the forum but have read the basic concepts and am thoroughly impressed with what all this website shows to offer. I’m making this post as I’m looking for other people that may have had similar type experiences whether successful or not. I’m also looking for kind but honest opinions on the matter.

I am husband/father currently going through divorce proceedings. 6 months in the process with a final mediation scheduled for the latter part next month. If the mediation doesn’t work out I’m afraid it’s off to trial. Brief background. I’m against divorce. My wife filed. We have a son whom is just over 2 years of age. To the best of my knowledge there was not infidelity in our marriage...what has led to this predicament was excessive arguing, ultimately regarding finances/spending. Things were said from both sides, out of anger, that shouldn’t have been said. My spouse would not agree to try couples therapy but only that I should go. I did go to therapy and still go to this day. We no longer live under the same roof, we’re each in our own place. Per our temp orders we’re currently under an extended SPO. I am pursuing 50/50 custody. I was and still am an extremely active and involved father but not as active as I’d like to be due to the SPO (which I’ll never understand why they start at that and not 50/50 but that’s a whole other post). My spouse and I both work full time jobs.

Ultimately, I wish nothing more than for the reconciliation of our marriage. I proposed reconciliation a few months back and finally received a response back after 3+ weeks that she didn’t have any interest in trying couples therapy or putting forth an effort to reconcile. It’s hard for me to accept as I’ve conducted extensive research on the topic and even seen with my own eyes, reconciliation between couples who had far worse issues. My hang up is, the not (at least) trying therapy or talking with our pastor, or trying anything really...this especially since we have a sweet baby boy together. I understand that I cannot control the way that she feels nor is that my objective. I just pray that we could at least give it our best shot, give it a try, as I truly have faith and believe that with outside, professional help, we could together overcome and forego this mess and truly make a better future together for ourselves and our child. What’s the harm in trying and putting forth a good faith effort? I continue to remain hopeful and optimistic even though she has told me she has no interest....though folks tell me to accept and move on. I get it. I really do but I will stand for my marriage and remain hopeful. I’m not one to quit nor give up, especially on my family. It is without a doubt my number one priority.

Might anyone share an outsiders perspective on this matter? Does anyone have any similar experiences? Outcomes? Should I give up, accept and move on or should I continue to stand until it’s officially, legally over? Heck, you hear of folks reconciling after the divorce is final but I’d prefer to nip it in the bud now. I know this is all very rare or at least that’s what I’m told but again, I feel it’s certainly not in my best interest to give up. I’m a firm believer in our child needing happy, uppirtive parents under one roof and again, you’ll never know if we can accomplish that without trying. Putting forth the work. After all, marriage is hard work right?

PS: I feel we’re doing a fine job at co-parenting up to this point and our child appears to be happy but at his age I don’t think he understands what is going on.

I continue and will continue to pray for assistance in reconciliation and the restoration of our marriage.

Thank you in advance!

I just realized that I failed to ask the question in my above post. With a little less than 6 weeks left until the final mediation...how do I proceed with pursuing reconciliation? Or do you not pursue at all and just pray, remain hopeful and let it run its course? Part of me feels I should pursue but the other part of me feels like that could just push her away more. I feel that I’ve made it clear in the past (about a month ago) that I am here should she reconsider just to ensure she knows I’ve not given up. I let her know at that same time that I believe in us and our family and have the utmost confidence that we could start a fresh new beginning if we put in the work together. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Welcome to MB.

Who was doing the bad spending? How bad did it get? Did it leave you in serious debt? Did you need to give up your home because of debt?

Please explain to this foreigner what an SPO is.

It's not that people do not break up over money - I have heard that this is a very high cause of divorce. However, on this forum we often find that a woman who pushes for the break up of the marriage, especially when she has a young child, and when she has a husband who is willing to try anything to reconcile, has found somebody else. And no matter how unlikely you think this is, it is always possible. No matter what the spouse's previous character, no matter their religious convictions, no matter that they may have been on the receiving end of infidelity in a previous marriage or in their parents' marriage - no matter how unconvinced you are, any one of us could let someone else meet our emotional needs - because it feels good. There is nobody, except someone with no capacity to have close relationships- in which case how did they get married - who is immune from this possibility. For that reason, I urge you to think about who another man could be, and even consider hiring a PI to watch your wife when she is not with your child.

I need to point out that "standing" for your marriage is not an MB concept, or a course of action in its own right that is recommended by Dr Harley. As I understand it, "standing" is a specific approach, although I don't know the details of it. If, at its core, it involves refusing to give up on your marriage (at least for a set period of time) and praying, then Dr Harley would be all for that. But he would also recommend discovering and exposing an affair, and trying to meet the emotional needs that your wife will allow you to meet, and avoiding love busters.

It's hard to meet any intimate emotional needs while you are separated, and impossible if she has found someone else. At best you'd be doing a good job as a financial provider and being an excellent father, while maybe doing odd jobs around the house and repairing her car (non-intimate needs), while she laps that up and builds a great relationship with the other man (OM). That's why it is critical to know what you're dealing with. In essence, this is Plan A.

I imagine that fighting over money, with all the nasty behaviour, insults and bad language that fighting involves, was one of the love busters that drove her away. You must realise that you can try to meet her emotional needs as much as you like, but it will be to no effect if you continue with any love busters.

For how long have you been married? What age are you both? Is this a first marriage for both of you? Are there any other kids from previous relationships?

Perhaps you could tell us more about the disintegration of the marriage.

The main thing that would make her reconsider would be your ability to show her how the marriage would be different - and this is hard to do now that you are living apart and she has moved on in her mind. She has a full-time job, she has enough money, and her son has a good father. He is young enough for her to think that he does not know how his life is changing, and that by the time he is older, he will be used to separate households and perhaps a stepfather- that's what she thinks. Her life is probably better at the moment because she is not dealing with fighting and general misery.

You need to find evidence of an affair and do the rest of Plan A as much as she will allow it.

How long have you been together? How long have you been married? And what are your ages?

Hi SugarCane. Thank you so very much for your response. I really appreciate your insight.

Some additional information per your request. We will have been married coming up on 6 years very soon. I’m 40 and she is 35. This is both our first marriage. We do not have any other kids from any previous relationships.

She was doing the spending. I also contributed to it some. I should clarify, it wasn’t so bad that we lost the house or went into major debt...we just found ourselves in a vicious cycle of consistently over drafting. Then we’d work together to set a budget, then the over-drafting cycle would repeat thus leading to arguments.

An SPO is legal term for a Standard Possession Order - basically a custody arrangement that allows me to see our child once during the week for a few hours and then the 1st, 3rd and 5th weekends of the month, this per our temp orders while proceedings push forward. I’m fighting for 50/50 custody in lieu of the Standard Possession Order but spouse doesn’t agree with 50/50 which I feel is a true injustice to our 2 year old son. We’re both fine parents and I believe that if divorce must be her solution here then it’s in the best interest of our child to be with both parents equally. But like I say, my prayer is for reconciliation. I hope that clarifies the SPO.

A certainly understand that there could be an affair but I have not heard anything of the sort and we’re in a pretty tight knit community where word travels fast. I certainly cannot rule it out one way or the other but there is not any evidence to this point that has surfaced to suggest that there was infidelity or that she’s met someone else but time will tell I suppose. I will certainly continue to investigate this matter. Our breakup wasn’t solely due to money but the arguing that would stem from it and then that arguing snowballing into other arguments. I can only look back now and wish that we would’ve reached out for help while this was transpiring and not after-the-fact. I am naive and was just under the presumption that we’d always work it out in which we did many times but we didn’t properly educate ourselves with professional help to keep it from happening again and that is a real regret for me for us. I’m sure there was a lot of resentment built up that was never addressed. All understandable, it just saddens me that she won’t agree at the very least give the reconciliation process a try to see what could transpire.

We do not and have not argued since the filing of divorce; however, we hardly communicate unless it’s at the child pick up and drop off and she continues to remain very cold and short with me in her communication. Almost like she’s reading off of a legal script. I’ve tried to bridge the gap of communication and we’ve talked a hand full of times but of nothing of any relevance. She likes to keep method of communication via text as much as possible. Over Christmas, I purchased just small gifts for her parents and herself that were “from our son”, my son and I also made her a cute, handmade Valentines card. I’ve reached out to do these things to help show the love but they have been acknowledged very little, maybe just a thank you at best but it is important to me to start those traditions with my son.

As far as the the disintegration of the marriage - it’s based upon irreconcilable differences and conflict in personality. At least that’s what the paperwork says. Like I say, it’s mainly attributed to the the angry arguments from both of us not just one of us. We both are type a personalities and both played a role. Sad thing is, we got a long wonderful for most of the time. We dated 2.5 years prior to our marriage. Really enjoyed each other. The real stressors came while we were both learning to be first time parents and then the covid pandemic hitting in the midst of it all. It’s just a real shame to me that an attempt can’t be made at reconciliation.

As you advised, I will investigate in more detail as to a potential affair and proceed with Plan A as much as possible. I take it that I should not continue to express to her how I feel and that it’s not too late to reconsider. I don’t want to “push” her away but at the same time I don’t want her to think I love given up and don’t care. Conflicted and confused is an understatement. Again, I very much appreciate your response and insight and should you have any additional words of wisdom based off this new response I am all ears. Thank you, SugarCane.

Hi Brian. We’ve together 8.5-9 years, married coming up on 6 years of those 8.5-9. Ages - I’m 40, she’s 35. Thank you.

Will you be able to snoop, without her knowing, so you can rule out an affair?

I think snooping might be impossible, but it's never impossible to hire a PI.

I think snooping is out of the question since we do not live together and only see each other at pick up and drop offs. Theoretically speaking, what is the plan of action should there not be an affair? Then how would you proceed? I’m not trying to say there is not...just trying to understand all options rather than solely focusing on an affair so that there is another plan in place. Thanks again!

Get a PI to report on how she spends her time when her son is with you. The first step is to rule an affair in or out.

Thank you, SugarCane.

Will you be hiring a PI?

Cloud, what we are telling you is that if you are already in plan A (no love busters, meeting any needs she will allow you to meet) and it is clearly not working, then there are only two possibilities: either you are still love busting (fighting) or she is having an affair. That latter is the more likely. If she is having an affair, we can help you with that. We really like to save marriages around here! It will probably be someone she is working with and it will almost certainly be someone whose name used to come up a lot and that she suddenly stopped mentioning. Does that help at all?

Thank you for the response and insight, living_well. First off, let me say...I really love the fact that you all really like saving marriages, that’s so important and I commend you all the folks that have been able to accomplish such a feat.

After re-reading Plan A (and B), I haven’t started Plan A...as I understand it, both plans revolve around already exposing an affair in which I have not done. Again, I am not in denial saying there isn’t one; however, there has been zero hard evidence or hearsay to prove/suggest one. Being that I haven’t exposed an affair, I therefore haven’t negotiated with my spouse to separate from a lover. I presume I’m only able to commence Plan A should an affair be exposed? Again, this, as I understand it.

We have not argued nor fought throughout the divorce proceedings; however, we do have a contentious divorce due to the disagreement as to how custody should be settled but there is no arguing or fighting between the two of us. As previously mentioned, we hardly talk with the exception of brief hi’s and bye’s at our child’s pick ups/drop offs and the occasional texts checking in on our child.

That said, in the past (December/January) I reached out to her once via phone call to let her know that I believe in saving our marriage and would like to take steps (w/professional assistance) towards a reconciliation if she too felt the same. I did not beg nor plead for her to come back but simply advised her as to my mindset on the matter and where my heart sits. I heard back from her 3 or so weeks later with a response that she wasn’t interested. In March she texted me during a weekend that I had our son, stating she missed him. I responded letting her know that I am very understanding of that as I too deeply miss him when I’m not with him. I then reassured her again that I believe in her and that I believe in us and that I am of the mind that we could save our marriage and our family if at some point she decided to reconsider. I left it at at that and never received a response addressing that statement.

I will continue to research the matter to see if I’m able to gather such information but as we stand we’re simply counting down the days until our final mediation attempt. Please let me know if there are any questions or if I may clarify anything; however, there are some matters I’m unable to comment on a public forum. Thank you all for your time, responses and support! I too, am a strong believer in saving marriages!!

Hi Cloud06,

Maybe I missed it from your earlier messages, but did you or your wife move out of your home to a new place? Who instituted the separation? I ask because like the others, I see a lot of red flags in your story that hint to an undiscovered relationship being the source of the growing conflict with your wife and this resulting break.

Dr. Harley's experience and the stories on this forum are filled with countless examples of spouses wanting space and moving out of the home to make an affair easier. For female spouses with young children - barring physically abusive situations and drug or alcohol abuse situations - I cannot remember any exceptions in my 10+ years on this forum to an affair NOT being the cause of the female spouse moving out. I am sure there are some exceptions, but I cannot remember them as they are so few!

Brainhurts asked about the PI above. I think this is a critical step to either give you the full story or put your mind at rest. The MB strategies are somewhat different in both cases (affair or no affair). A PI will give you the full scoop in a few days, perhaps even a few hours. Frankly, if you don't hire a PI, you may never know the truth about why your marriage ended and your child ended up in a broken home. Your situation may very well be the exception to the rule. But the odds say otherwise.

If she is in fact having an affair, who could be the affair partner? As noted above by living_well, it will be someone she admires, probably a close friend of hers or of both of you, or a co-worker, or perhaps an old boy friend even. It will probably be someone you know of and it may even totally surprise you. But once you know, the pieces will fall into place and you will look back and see your conflicts and this entire situation in a much different light, blinders removed.

Hire the PI.

Hi Blackhawk, thank you for the response. To address your first two questions: I moved out of the home but only once it was made mandatory by our temporary court orders. The home was actually her home (separate property) as she owned it before we were together. My spouse filed for the divorce thus instituting the separation. We’re currently going through proceedings, 6 months-in. The Final Mediation is scheduled for the latter part of next month.

In summary, I completely understand where you all are coming from on the affair side. All we can do is continue to look into it. Thus far nothing. On the flip side, should we not find anything and there not be an affair....what Plan/Steps do I take to make best, good faith effort/attempt to save my marriage before final mediation roles around? Are there any strategies available or past experiences from anyone that has success? Do I make an attempt to take her out on a date and just visit? Do I invite her to go to the park while I have our son in my possession on one of my weekends? Do you send flowers to her work? Or do I not make any contact with her unless she contacts me? Just spit balling ideas here. You read/research so many different strategies it makes your head spin.

Again, I sincerely appreciate each and everyone of you for your time and responses, I wish only I would have joined this forum much earlier but I can’t dwell on the what if’s, must move forward. Please let me know your thoughts as to strategy to put in place these next 5-6 weeks if able. Thank you.

Part of plan A is being a considerate thoughtful spouse and trying to make love bank deposits into the account of your wife. You are trying to show her that you put her first in your life and you meet her needs, especially of affection and intimate conversation if she will let you. Living separately this is much, much harder, but not totally impossible. You must avoid ALL love-busters in your interactions and not fight ever at all. This does not mean roll-over to avoid conflict! But it does mean not reacting to verbal barbs and doing your best to never show anger or disrespect ever. Again, very, very difficult going through a divorce since if your conversations are all about the divorce these conversations will be difficult and prone to create conflict that causes you both to love-bust each other. You would be trying to demonstrate to your wife that you are/can be a caring and loving husband that can meet her needs even as you negotiate the dissolution of the marriage. You try not to discuss the divorce with her and let the mediators/lawyers do that if possible. You basically try and date your wife.

Even if she goes through with the divorce, you could continue trying to plan A from afar for a period of time, perhaps for up to 1 year after the divorce. Given your short timeline, unless she is already giving you indication or signs she is open to recreating your marriage with you, the odds are you will divorce. If your spouse is having an affair, she will not be open to trying to work things out now, but even after divorce and after the affair dies a natural death she may be open to the idea of recreating your relationship, especially since you are the father of her child.

Have you considered writing the daily radio show so Dr. Harley could address your situation and give advice on air? If you can afford it, you could also schedule a session with Steve Harley from the MB coaching center. Steve is Dr. Harley's son and is a very skillful marriage coach and counselor and can give you a step by step strategy on what would give you the best odds in your situation. Given what's at stake, I would consider these options.

Lastly, I still think it would in your best interest to hire a PI and determine once and for all if you wife is having an affair. If she is, then the approach above would still apply, but you also would have the powerful tool of exposure to break up the affair and speed things along. If you have to wait for the affair to die a natural death this could take a few months or even a few years. If she is not having an affair, this would increase your odds that you could work things out over time. It really is critical to determine if there is an affair or no affair. if you are not living together or do not have access to her electronic accounts, then you will not be able to snoop and find this out by yourself.

I totally agree with Blackhawk and SugarCane about the advice to Hire the PI. Have you even looked into reaching out to a PI in your area?

Hello, Brian, would it be possible to private message you? There are some items (due to the ongoing legal proceedings) that I am not comfortable putting out on a public forum. Thank you.