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StanDan Offline OP
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Hello,

I wish I had found this website first. Of all the materials and websites I’ve visited, MB has by far and away been the most helpful.

The forums, topics, replies - everything and everyone I’ve seen and read through on MB has been so extremely helpful and has helped me cope and realize and I am not alone.

"Surviving an Affair" and “His Needs, Her Needs” and just all the general concepts of rebuilding a marriage and rebuilding romantic love by Dr. Harley has been very helpful in providing me with some hope that my marriage can become stronger and better than it was before.
-***EDIT***

I suppose I’m asking for an assessment for how I am managing my situation and asking for additional insight and advice as well as what else I should do and what pitfalls and mistakes I am making or to watch out for.

We have been married for 5 years and been together for 12. I am 45 and she is 37. We own a house which is the only significant asset we share. We do not have any children although it was something we wanted and tried to have before the pandemic. IVF was discussed but again we decided to put this on hold. Currently she does not want to have children and has expressed relief that we did not have one.

It's been one month and 12 days since I discovered her affair.
Since then it's been the typical roller-coaster of emotion and circular reactions you read about everywhere.

I was very emotionally abusive towards her since discovery followed by periods of remorse, trying to understand, and ( surprisingly ) caring about her. These extreme emotions would cycle constantly and rapidly. I felt out of control many times.

It was not good. I would have moments of uncontrollable outbursts. I made things worse and now my wife is constantly checking on me worried about the next time I'm going to flip out on her.

I have been working on and seeking help for my anger issues. This has now been a major point of emphasis as even in the past I have had moments where I would become overwhelmed or perceive certain behaviors as slights and would verbally lash out against them.

This resentment combined with a high blood pressure issue ( that I did not take seriously or give much thought to ) caused my anger to quickly boil over.

In my mind I felt these outbursts were justified and because they were somewhat rare, occurring only a handful of times spaced out about 7 - 8 months apart.
I now realize what I was doing and how wrong I was.

The damage I have caused has accumulated over time and created the disassociation in our relationship.
I am quite fearful that the damage I caused is not repairable. Her fearful reactions and thoughts about me appear subconscious.
- Even as I write this now - because of how focused I am on this, my wife just asked me “ Are you mad at me now” - I have to constantly reassure her that I am in a very calm state and that I have no feelings of animosity towards her.

A month+ removed from the discovery I feel like I have a better handle on things emotionally. Nothing is great but I can now keep my emotions in check and appear stable when I'm home.

She has cut off all communication with the OM ( That I am aware of )
This was a relationship that started over Instagram and Whatsapp - I do not have access to her phone or passwords and she will not provide me access to her phone unless I really push her - which ends up being a stressful drawn-out ordeal.
I know that's her being defensive and wanting to blow me off or avoid having the affair thrown in her face again.

Initially I demanded to see all the texts that she has with the OM. She of course refused and has told me everything has been deleted including whatever is in the cloud.
I have become obsessed with getting recovery software and trying to find a way to gain access to her iphone without her knowing. So far I've been unsuccessful.

I don't even know if I can recover anything that would be helpful but just the fact that she will not permit me to try and avoids this issue is really causing a problem for me.
She has communicated that she does not want to lose her privacy and feel like a prisoner.
I have tried to tell her that I need actions that demonstrate remorse and trustworthiness.
I am trying to learn more about the best way to navigate and negotiate this problem.

I understand that making demands is counter to my goal - but I also feel viewing all available information about the affair itself is within my right. It is something that is preventing me from fully committing to recovery. Because this is still kept from me, I still view her as an adversary.
The constant thinking being “What else is she hiding”

Currently she has me on my heels because of my initial verbal abuse towards her. She has actually become physically sick and for the past three weeks it's been me working on my anger issues so that I can make her feel safe enough to work on our relationship.

Based on her behavior she appears to be in the withdrawal stage. She has shown me that the OM’s Instagram profile is not linked to hers but again I have no way of knowing if she has reached out or has contact with him on other platforms.
I am not sure how to get through to her that I need real observable actions not just her telling me “ It's over", or “ We haven’t spoken or seen each other” etc.

The OM is married and I know where he lives and works. The problem I'm having is with covid world they both work at home.
I would prefer to tell her in person. I haven't been able to get his wife's full name and I'm reluctant to just leave a letter in the mailbox ( Just paranoid it might get discarded or not read ).
I cannot go to their house. I frequently have thoughts of hurting the OM and I do not think I will keep it together if I see him.

I've read Exposure 101 and our families are aware of the situation.

I'm just so confused and frustrated by the whole thing.

I feel like I am living and sleeping next to a complete stranger and impostor who tricked me into falling in love with a lie.

I also feel terrible that my complacency in not showing her proper affection, desire, and neglecting her needs pushed her away from me. I completely failed to be her husband and life partner.

She has health issues that make it difficult to interact with her consistently in a loving way. I would also describe her personality as passive aggressive and she deals with severe depression which she is taking medication for.
- This has contributed to my anxiety and causes me to question how I'll be able to meet her needs. How am I going to be able to create a better relationship if there are so many roadblocks in the way?

- I'm not excusing her choice to cheat but after speaking with her I can see that this experience made her feel "alive" - it's like she is having a mid life crisis and wanted to feel like a teenager again.

I love her so unconditionally ( or more likely whipped & emotionally devastated ) that I’ve wondered if their connection was so strong that I should probably step aside - maybe I’m no longer the right person for her? Maybe this is a sign we should both move on? Whats the point if she no longer finds me attractive, exciting, or interesting?
I do not want her to stay with me because I’m a “safe” choice.

The OM was a co-worker that left and went to another company. She tells me their relationship was professional when they worked together and that they connected over instagram after they no longer worked together.
Then they quickly became online friends and went back and forth between texting over instagram and Whatsapp. The emotional affair started during the beginning of summer in 2020. Our decision to pause IVF was decided in August - so she was absolutely speaking with the OM at this time.
She said that the online relationship turned sexual in the fall. Unclear if it started in October or November. Regardless they started meeting each other a few times each month after that as well as maintaining a sexual correspondence over Whatsapp.
She would manipulate her work hours so that she could leave early enough in the mid day to see him but still be home on time so I would not suspect anything.

The OM is a similar build to mine. Handsome and is a finance manager at his job. As you can imagine this has not helped my confidence much as I feel like I am up against very desirable mate qualities that I cannot completely compete with.
The constant thoughts of being sexually insufficient is soul crushing. I fear a path to divorce if I am not able to overcome them.

Her relationship with the OM was 90% through texting. They never spoke unless of course when they were meeting each other.
I've brought this up with her and jokingly asked “How am I supposed to communicate with you?” “You are not usually in a happy or approachable state when you are home.” "Am I supposed to live in the basement and text you?" “Should we communicate intimate thoughts with impersonal texting and emojis?”

She has also expressed that she has no sexual desire towards me. She is clear that she does not find me physically un-attractive. She explains that the passionate deep sexual desire is simply not there. Like we are brother and sister or something.

I am aware that it is the lack of trust, her fears that I am emotionally unstable and being emotionally walled off from each other over long periods of time is what all contributed to all of this.
The rejection is nonetheless a bitter and tough pill to swallow. It is insulting and infuriating knowing that she would have no issues being intimate with the OM now - a relationship for sexual gratification. While I'm left to feel like a piece of used clothing or shoes that she has no desire or further use for. - causing further resentment to build within me.

So I feel a little stuck. I'm trying to back off from going over the affair details but at the same time I have deep unresolved issues that I know I will bring up which will throw away any goodwill ( or love bank units if you will ) when I eventually do bring them up.

Not sure what else I could add other than I’m trying to be patient and take it one day at a time.

Any thoughts, opinions, or advice would be very much appreciated

Thank You

Last edited by Ariel; 11/21/21 01:04 PM. Reason: Removing external reference
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Welcome to MB.

First thing first you absolutely must get your anger under control. If you can’t, you need to move out until it is.

Why haven’t you exposed to OM’s BW? You need to go there in person and tell her. She needs to know. So no one from OM’s side has been exposed to? If you’ve read exposure 101 you know how important exposure is. You need to get this done.

So who on your side and her side have you actually told?

There are alot of red flags of her not sharing her phone. You need to get spyware on her devices so you can confirm the affair is over. Has she been to the doctor to get tested?

Has she sat down and told you everything about the affair? If so, you must stop bringing it up.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Please tell us what has been done on this list.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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StanDan Offline OP
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Hello Brainhurts,

My anger issues are my top priority atm. I am seeking therapy and have been gathering as much anger management material as I can.

- The OM and his wife both work from home. I haven't been able to determine who her employer is ( to attempt contact that way ) or determine when the OM won't be home.
I do not feel comfortable or ready to be in a situation where I will see the OM. Yes, I am working on my anger issues but I fear I will not be able to control myself if I confront him.

Currently my wife's immediate family is aware of the affair. I'm estranged from everyone on my side except my father and I've told him what is happening.

She says she has told me everything but a lot of the information I got only came after I pressed her about previous details she provided didn't add up or make sense. She has been trickling the truth down to me and because of that I am always wondering what else she is keeping from me.

She cites wanting her privacy and not wanting to feel like a prisoner for not giving me complete access to her phone.

Getting access to her iphone has been a constant challenge. It is a iphone SE that has fingerprint id. I've tried twice to get her code by setting up a spy camera and then powering the phone down so she has to enter the password. Each time she obscured her iphone screen when typing. I am going to try again this coming Weds.


What has NOT been done on the checklist:

_ The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

Last edited by StanDan; 11/21/21 10:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by StanDan
The OM and his wife both work from home. I haven't been able to determine who her employer is ( to attempt contact that way ) or determine when the OM won't be home.
I do not feel comfortable or ready to be in a situation where I will see the OM. Yes, I am working on my anger issues but I fear I will not be able to control myself if I confront him.
You need to be a lot more pro-active about exposing to the wife. Have you done a Google search on her name? Can you try and find her phone number this way? There is an enormous amount available about all of us online, and I'm surprised you cannot find anything on her. What about LinkedIn?

If you are forced to go to the house, you need to keep your hands off OM and also not threaten him, because you could end up in jail and with a restraining order. If you can only contact the wife in person when he is at home, take a friend with you who is strong enough to to hold you back.

Originally Posted by StanDan
Currently my wife's immediate family is aware of the affair. I'm estranged from everyone on my side except my father and I've told him what is happening.
Have you personally told your wife's family that she has had an affair with a married man? Who is he, by the way? A former colleague? An ex boyfriend? How did they hook up, especially under COVID?

Originally Posted by StanDan
She says she has told me everything but a lot of the information I got only came after I pressed her about previous details she provided didn't add up or make sense. She has been trickling the truth down to me and because of that I am always wondering what else she is keeping from me.

She cites wanting her privacy and not wanting to feel like a prisoner for not giving me complete access to her phone.

Getting access to her iphone has been a constant challenge. It is a iphone SE that has fingerprint id. I've tried twice to get her code by setting up a spy camera and then powering the phone down so she has to enter the password. Each time she obscured her iphone screen when typing. I am going to try again this coming Weds.
I would say that you know enough to know that this was a physical affair. If your wife isn't willing to be transparent about her communications going forward, I don't think you'd be solving the problem by spying on her. The problem is that she wants privacy so that she can stay in contact with him. In fact, I'd say that the problem is that she does not want to commit to your marriage. That can be seen from the items outstanding on the check list:


Originally Posted by StanDan
What has NOT been done on the checklist:

_ The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).


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It's not necessary the end of all hope that your wife is not making a commitment to rebuild the marriage. If you've read Dr Harley's book Surviving an Affair, you'll have seen that Sue went back home utterly uncommitted to Jon, having been dumped by Greg. She only went back because there was nowhere else for her to go.

Sue did, however, have the added impetus of children - something that your wife does not have. The other thing that made her situation more favourable than yours was that there was a complete end to the affair; Greg dumped her, fed up with her guilt and depression over hurting her children. There was no way back to the affair for her, whereas your wife seems to be able to keep contact open. OM does not want to leave his wife and kids for her, but he does not mind getting a bit of free nookie - especially since you haven't come into the picture (from his point of view) and he does not see you as a threat. You need to bring hell into his marriage and his life by telling his wife what he's been doing. He won't be so keen to keep in contact with your wife when his wife is threatening to change his life very much for the worse.

Also, it sound as if he might live relatively near to you. If so, for the marriage to be restored, you and your wife will need to move away. However, since your wife is unwilling to do anything you've asked her so far in terms of ending the affair, you'd do better to wait before you plan this. Moving house wile she still has phone contact would be pointless.

Your anger, though is the most serious impediment to your wife's recommitting to you. Without kids, there is no reason for her to want to risk your angry outbursts again.

What concrete steps are you taking to overcome your outbursts? Have you heard of a galvanised response meter?


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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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StanDan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I OM does not want to leave his wife and kids for her, but he does not mind getting a bit of free nookie - especially since you haven't come into the picture (from his point of view) and he does not see you as a threat. You need to bring hell into his marriage and his life by telling his wife what he's been doing. He won't be so keen to keep in contact with your wife when his wife is threatening to change his life very much for the worse.

Also, it sound as if he might live relatively near to you. If so, for the marriage to be restored, you and your wife will need to move away. However, since your wife is unwilling to do anything you've asked her so far in terms of ending the affair, you'd do better to wait before you plan this. Moving house wile she still has phone contact would be pointless.

Your anger, though is the most serious impediment to your wife's recommitting to you. Without kids, there is no reason for her to want to risk your angry outbursts again.

What concrete steps are you taking to overcome your outbursts? Have you heard of a galvanised response meter?

Hello SugarCane,

They OM does live very close to us. Next town over.
WW has admitted to me that they had a physical as well as online sexual affair. She would leave work early to meet him the next town over and would be so close to our house that she could get back home at the normal time I would expect her. Nothing was amiss with her schedule.

The only tip off was how she was treating me and how distant our relationship was.

Both her and the OM worked together. Some time in spring 2020 he left and went to another company. She said after that he reached out to her over social media and they began an emotional friendship. WW said this did not turn sexual until later in the fall of 2020. I became suspicious in early June and finally caught her in October.

[quote=SugarCane] "The problem is that she wants privacy so that she can stay in contact with him. In fact, I'd say that the problem is that she does not want to commit to your marriage. "

Yes this has been a major concern of mine. She says shes "confused" and I am very saddened by the thought that she may not want to commit to the marriage.
- She's very much flying by her instincts and emotions. All she says to that end is " well I stayed didn't I ?" - instead of filing for divorce.
It's obviously a major soft spot for me and is a source of many arguments.

All contact has ceased with the OM ( that I am aware of ) but I fear she is keeping that door open

She constantly tells me she needs time to think and that I'm too impatient. It's very frustrating. There are signs that she does love me, I think she is really confused about her loss of passion for me and how distant our relationship has become.
I'm hoping I can at least get her to read "His Needs, Her Needs"
I've printed out a bunch of the questionnaires and plan on working with her on them this weekend

I am working on rebuilding trust with her. She still ( very understandably ) does not always feel safe even though I've shown a lot of improvement. We do hang out a lot together when at home and have been talking regularly.

I agree 100% on exposure with the OM's wife. I am now fairly confident I know her name and I have her info from linkedin. ( Just hope it's not his sister smile
I would prefer to meet her but I will try reaching her through her employer if I can't.

My anger issues have been my top priority. I am working on it daily and have not had a major outburst for over two weeks now. ( D-day was 10/11 )
I have adhd & I was taking an XR version of adderall that was also increasing my blood pressure. I'm off it now but I didn't realize it was affecting me that negatively. Combined with how angry this situation is, my anger was just boiling over. I was moving through the stages of grief violently

Currently I still routinely find myself frustrated by the whole thing but I am now able to focus and keep myself calm while understanding my culpability in neglecting my wife and my responsibilities as a husband.
It is now much easier for me to quickly recognize when I'm getting angry and to quickly focus on cooling down.

I am also reading a few anger management books ( Instant anger management, Walking through anger, and a few CBT books )

I will definitely check out that Anger management 101 link

I will also look into the galvanised response meter for anger management as well.

Thank You

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Originally Posted by StanDan
- She's very much flying by her instincts and emotions.
But what else is there? Her emotions and instincts are trying to protect her. What would you rather she used? Logic? What would that say? What are the reasons for returning to her marriage and fully committing to you?


Originally Posted by StanDan
All she says to that end is " well I stayed didn't I ?" - instead of filing for divorce.


It's obviously a major soft spot for me and is a source of many arguments.
You need to STOP talking about whatever it is that ends up in arguments. Arguing is destructive to your marriage, and will only serve to push her away. She will think that she is correct not to trust that your anger has gone for good.

Originally Posted by StanDan
I'm hoping I can at least get her to read "His Needs, Her Needs"
I've printed out a bunch of the questionnaires and plan on working with her on them this weekend
I don't think Dr Harley would recommend that you do this with an unhappy wife who hasn't yet re-committed to her marriage.

What you need to do is show her your best side, and meeting any emotional needs that she will allow you to meet; romancing her, really. I don't think you're off on a good foot trying to restore the love in your marriage by urging her to read educational books that tell her where she went wrong, and asking her to fill out questionnaires. That's not the way to get her to fall in love with you again.

I'm going to say to you what I just said to another poster: yours is a difficult case, because your wife is not really interested in restoring the marriage, even if the affair has fully ended, which is doubtful. I'm going to recommend that you write to Dr Harley, explaining both about the anger issues and the affair, just as you have to us. You need to ask him what you can do to draw your wife back into the marriage - but I know he will say that your anger is the biggest impediment right now, and that she will not and should not return to you (emotionally) until she is convinced that you are a safe person. However, he will also give you advice on carrying out Plan A, which is what you should be doing now.


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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will receive a call to explain the procedure.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.




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