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Originally Posted by Mature
When filling out the Love Busters questionnaire I became aware sex is not mentioned as one of the love busters! This perplexed me for a while until I realised Sex problems are maybe just manifestations of Dishonesty and Independent Behaviour.

A Love Buster has to be something you do. Choosing to not do something isn't a Love Buster. Failure to meet an Emotional Need is not a Love Buster.

It's crucially important that your wife only meet your EN for sexual fulfillment in a way she is enthusiastic about, so it's crucially important that she be allowed to choose not to do so if the circumstances aren't right for her. Even if she can't put into words why that is. And without her choice being labeled a Love Buster or anything negative. Her choice is providing valuable information for you: that circumstances aren't right for her to be able to enthusiastically, sustainably, meet and continue to meet this need for you long term.

According to Dr. Harley, women typically need two main things to be able to enthusiastically meet their husband's need for sexual fulfillment:
1) they have to feel emotionally bonded to their husband
2) they have to feel that there is a prospect of enjoyment for them in the sexual experience

Marriage Builders addresses both of these - you address 1 by making sure that your account in her love bank is past the romantic love threshold: you meet her emotional needs with improving skill and learn to eliminate love busters on your part, so that your balance is continually growing. Once that is achieved, then you can communicate about how to achieve 2.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Mature
When filling out the Love Busters questionnaire I became aware sex is not mentioned as one of the love busters! This perplexed me for a while until I realised Sex problems are maybe just manifestations of Dishonesty and Independent Behaviour.

A Love Buster has to be something you do. Choosing to not do something isn't a Love Buster. Failure to meet an Emotional Need is not a Love Buster.

.

There must be some overlap between a failure to meet an emotional need and an action. Certainly I feel sad because my emotional need is not met, The way I express that sadness will probably be a love buster, in my case most likely as Disrespectful Judgments. Only in the last 12 months have I tipped over into the odd Angry Outburst. However when I look back as to how it has manifested over a much longer timeframe I'm wondering what category my begging for sex has been; is that a Selfish Demand or an Annoying Behaviour?

Likewise when my mate knows I have an emotional need that she chooses not to meet it is being expressed in some form of love buster otherwise it would not be hurting me. In my case I experience her unilateral withdrawal from sex as Independent Behaviour. I also experience failure to negotiate on it (POJA) as Dishonesty.

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Originally Posted by Mature
There must be some overlap between a failure to meet an emotional need and an action.

The way to deal with Love Busters is completely different from the way to deal with getting your emotional needs met.

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Certainly I feel sad because my emotional need is not met, The way I express that sadness will probably be a love buster, in my case most likely as Disrespectful Judgments.

Wait a minute, in order for this program to work, you need to eliminate love busters. If you probably become demanding, disrespectful, or angry in response to an unmet emotional need, that's a serious issue that needs to be addressed before the two of you can move forward to meet each other's emotional needs.

That was exactly my same problem, for years!

Your wife will likely start to feel much more enthusiastic about meeting your emotional needs some time after love busters are eliminated.

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Only in the last 12 months have I tipped over into the odd Angry Outburst.

So I'm a formerly abusive husband with a very important question for you: can you guarantee that you will never have an angry outburst at your wife again? If not, that's the first thing you've got to do, and the help to learn how to do it is here. This is what I had to do. There's no other way for this to work.

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I'm wondering what category my begging for sex has been; is that a Selfish Demand or an Annoying Behaviour?

The way the Marriage Builders program handles this is:
step 1: eliminate all of your love busters
step 2: learn to use Thoughtful Requests to get your emotional needs met in a way your wife is enthusiastic about. Dr. Harley's got a thoughtful requests article up somewhere, and there's more information about it in Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs.

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Likewise when my mate knows I have an emotional need that she chooses not to meet it is being expressed in some form of love buster otherwise it would not be hurting me.

No, it's not a Love Buster to choose to do nothing. Maybe you need to read what Dr. Harley said to me about this:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
markos:

When you make a request, and your wife declines, the next step is to negotiate with her, not to tell her that your feelings have been hurt. Under what conditions would she be willing? If you can't think of any right away, withdraw the request.

By telling your wife that your feelings were hurt, although it's an accurate description of your reaction, it's also a way to make her feel guilty for declining your request. Besides, it should be recognized that if a request is declined, and you feel hurt, you must be under the illusion that if she really cared about you, she would do whatever you request. That's an illusion, not a fact. A caring wife has the right to decline requests. A caring husband accepts it because he realizes that he would have been gaining at her expense if she had agreed.

Again, the step to take after declining your request is to negotiate or withdraw it.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

This was a post Dr. Harley made to me in 2012!

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In my case I experience her unilateral withdrawal from sex as Independent Behaviour. I also experience failure to negotiate on it (POJA) as Dishonesty.

No, that's not how Dr. Harley defines those terms


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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In order for this program to work buy-in is needed from both partners. That buy-in probably never happens at the same time, one party secures the other party's buy-in by working on their known love busters. However if you are not informed of what they are you are just guessing. I was somewhat surprised at my mate's ranking of her emotional needs, but I am aware I meet most if not all of them. I am less clear on what her Lover Buster list is.

Neither of us has ever been abusive and by my count I have had maybe had three angry outburst over the last 12 months that amount to a total of about 10 words. If you have a 40 year history of no angry exchanges a simple angrily delivered 2 words can be devastating to both giver and receiver.

It is my opinion a request can never be withdrawn, only a demand can be withdrawn. A demand is disrespectful, a request is the start of a negotiation. Once a request is verbalized it exists for as long as it is remembered. It might be satisfied by mutual negotiation (POJA) or the requestor's need might change and that request becomes no longer relevant or has a need to be addressed. Accepting a decline to meet a request is a change in the requestor's need at that time. If the original request was an attempt to get an unmet emotional need addressed I cannot see how that request will ever go away and will be rerequested later on. If the requestor stops making the request with the need still unmet it becomes a sacrifice.

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Mature, I spent years trying to get buy-in from my wife, listened to Dr. Harley for hundreds of hours on his radio show, and I succeeded! I got quite good at it! I've been at this a very long time.

[Linked Image from gcdn.pbrd.co]

I'd like to help you get buy-in from your wife, too, but I'm not sure you're hearing everything I'm saying. We certainly have enough information here from what you've posted to talk about the Love Busters you are engaging in - it's not a mystery. I did the same stuff, and you're talking about it, here.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Neither of us has ever been abusive and by my count I have had maybe had three angry outburst over the last 12 months that amount to a total of about 10 words.

If you have had three angry outbursts in the last 12 months, then you have been abusive.

If you have made disrespectful judgements of your wife, then you have been abusive.

If either of these are happening, even just a few times in the last year, then it is likely your wife will not feel sexual towards you at all.

You're going to have to clean up your side of the street before she is likely to show interest.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
If either of these are happening, even just a few times in the last year, then it is likely your wife will not feel sexual towards you at all.

My wife hasn't acted sexual towards me for 20 years. Things do eventually bubble to the surface.....

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/what-is-sacrifice-and-should-it-be-used-in-marriage.htm

Last edited by Mature; 12/16/21 12:22 AM.
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Mature, my wife Prisca was in the same situation as your wife ... maybe instead of trying to educate her, you should listen. She's also an expert in Dr. Harley's program.

Have you considered writing to Dr. Harley himself for help?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Mature
Originally Posted by Prisca
If either of these are happening, even just a few times in the last year, then it is likely your wife will not feel sexual towards you at all.

My wife hasn't acted sexual towards me for 20 years. Things do eventually bubble to the surface.....

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/what-is-sacrifice-and-should-it-be-used-in-marriage.htm

Would you like to change that?


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Hi, Mature! How's it going today?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Hi, Mature! How's it going today?

How is it going? I feel sad for myself because I have missed the sexual fulfillment I have craved for the past 20 years of my midlife and know in my heart that irrespective of whatever happens next, my old age is not going to be able to recoup that.

And no I do not want to retract what I have already put into words. I thought it, I said it, I take responsibility for it. My wife however remains my best friend for all the other needs we fulfill in each other. I can't see that ever changing. Perhaps that is the power of unconditional love, not just a love without precondition?

I think this thread has come to its useful end.

Last edited by Mature; 12/19/21 06:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by Mature
How is it going? I feel sad for myself because I have missed the sexual fulfillment I have craved for the past 20 years of my midlife and know in my heart that irrespective of whatever happens next, my old age is not going to be able to recoup that.

I'm so sorry, Mature. I know that is pretty awful.

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And no I do not want to retract what I have already put into words.

I don't understand - who has asked you to retract anything?

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I think this thread has come to its useful end.

We'd love to help you build a better future than you are expecting.

Also, have you considered writing Dr. Harley for help?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I get feeling sad about things that happened or did not happen in the past. I feel that too, sometimes, when I think of the "lost years," as we have come to refer to them. So many lost opportunities for happiness in our early marriage, and when our kids were young.

BUT ... the solution to happiness is not in the past. It's done. It's over. There's no changing it. The solution is in the present -- what you do now to change the now so that you can find happiness today and in the future.

The marriage you can build now will more than compensate for the neglect and disappointments in the past.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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