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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by w1hubby
I have committed to her that the safeguards we're building around our marriage

Can you be specific about what those safeguards are? (Don't post anything about emotional needs. Those are not safeguards.)
The major thing I've done is leaving my phone and computer in plain sight where she can see them.
I've been present and willing to help with tasks and projects my wife has need to have done.
We have movie nights and we have reading nights.
We say "I love you" a lot more.
I am reading and, also, here to seek advice on how to keep those safeguards in place.
I make her aware of where I am at and what I am doing and follow-through.

Also, can you add in some guarantees for her about what will happen to protect and rescue her if you do this again?
If I stray again, I will accept divorce as the consequence.
That said, I guarantee that with the actions that I am taking and will take that the aforementioned "straying" will not happen again.

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Originally Posted by w1hubby
Wow, SusieQ, lots to unpack and brain over here. Thank you!

There is nothing to unpack. This is just code for "I'll say I'm thinking about it, while not doing anything." I know because I used to pull the same stunt. For two years here at MB I said I was "working on it," which was code for doing nothing.

For example, there's literally zero to unpack here:
Originally Posted by SusieQ
This serial cheating WS needs for starters:
1) poly

What's to unpack? Just tell us when it's going to happen.

Quote
Not looking to say flowery things, just wanting to act to solidify our marriage to keep the safeguard around us by daily commitment to each other.

"daily commitment" is not a safeguard. It'll take almost no time at all at MB to learn that. This is just you saying the very flowery things Susie is talking about.

You've been on here for days/hours - what does MB actually recommend you do in your situation? Find out.

Make a todo list of the things that have been recommended to you in this thread. Post this todo list to us with dates as to when those things are going to happen. Don't give us baloney about how you're "unpacking" it. You've had over a decade to unpack.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by w1hubby
[quote=markos]Can you be specific about what those safeguards are? (Don't post anything about emotional needs. Those are not safeguards.)
The major thing I've done is leaving my phone and computer in plain sight where she can see them.
I've been present and willing to help with tasks and projects my wife has need to have done.
We have movie nights and we have reading nights.
We say "I love you" a lot more.
I am reading and, also, here to seek advice on how to keep those safeguards in place.
I make her aware of where I am at and what I am doing and follow-through.

How come when I said "don't post anything about emotional needs" you posted a bunch of stuff aut emotional needs and called it "safeguards"? Saying I love you is not a safeguard, w1hubby. Helping with tasks is not a safeguard.

You need precautions that will prevent you from having an affair EVEN IF NOBODY IS MEETING EMOTIONAL NEEDS IN YOUR MARRIAGE. It will take very little to learn about this here.

Quote
If I stray again, I will accept divorce as the consequence.

What difference does that make? In the US divorce happens if one spouse wants it whether you accept it or not.

Let's see actions that will make a difference.


Where's your todo list?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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I've have turned my heart to her completely. I have started communicating my love for her in various acts of love and kindness. Through reading and other united actions, we've started to connect on more higher levels of intimacy and love. It's through these actions that I know we'll weather this.

These are flowery words. This is not a plan. These actions will weather nothing.

If you really are reading MB, you should know the answers to the questions.

You're not serious.


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I apologize for not understanding your definition of safeguards, markos. When I said "unpack" here, it wasn't as a deflection. I meant that as I write this I've given my wife personal time to do things she wants to do (read, write) since she's been uber-focused on me since I've told her of my affair five weeks ago. When she is finished with personal time, her and I will sit down and discuss that which is on this thread and make that to-do list. Please know that I totally respect your words and thoughts here, but I think working with my wife would be best.

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Originally Posted by w1hubby
I apologize for not understanding your definition of safeguards, markos.

Do not apologize to me. I'm not hurt, and I'm not the one you're going to hurt if you don't do this.

Don't try to look for my definitions, either. This is Marriage Builders. Learn Dr. Harley's definitions.

Quote
When I said "unpack" here, it wasn't as a deflection.

This isn't my first rodeo, w1hubby. I think I'm better equipped than you to know when you're deflecting.

Where's your todo list?

Quote
I meant that as I write this I've given my wife personal time to do things she wants to do (read, write) since she's been uber-focused on me since I've told her of my affair five weeks ago. When she is finished with personal time, her and I will sit down and discuss that which is on this thread and make that to-do list.

None of this has anything to do with you making the todo list. You don't need to wait for your wife to do ANYTHING before you go through this thread and make a list of the things that we have recommended that you do.

Go through this thread and make a list of the things that you've been advised to do. Post that list to us with dates as to when you will get these things done.

Quote
Please know that I totally respect your words and thoughts here, but I think working with my wife would be best.

Knock it off. Your wife wants you to read here, right? Well, read here and make a list of things we've said, to prove you're listening. Get after it, let's see it TODAY.

For example:

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by SusieQ
This serial cheating WS needs for starters:
1) poly
What's to unpack? Just tell us when it's going to happen.

You're a big boy and can read through this thread a second time without your wife holding your hand. This recovery is not dependent on her; it is dependent on YOU. Prove that you're going to act on the words we've spoken to you rather than flushing them down the toilet and forgetting them after you've replied to them.

If you can't even read through this thread a second time, you are not going to make it and should just give your wife money for a lawyer to file for divorce now.

Can you prove that you're not forgetting our words as soon as you've replied to them? Or are you going to give us more 💩 ?

Todo list. Today.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by w1hubby
Wow, SusieQ, lots to unpack and brain over here. Thank you!
My wife and I have gone over some of this and will use this as a template to move forward on.
Yes, lots of UA Time, Reading, Sharing, and Fulfilling Needs.
Not looking to say flowery things, just wanting to act to solidify our marriage to keep the safeguard around us by daily commitment to each other.
Thank you again!
[/quote]

No offense, but my post was not for you. It was for lurkers who may be reading and be hearing similar language from their own WS.

I don't see anything you have posted but stalling and (no offense again) fluff.

NOTE: (and I know that you know this already): There is no need to move to the EN/UA part of the program when you won't even protect your BW from more affairs. I don't see any protection here. Nada.


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but I think working with my wife would be best.

Um, no. Don't put this on her.


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Originally Posted by w1hubby
Please know that I totally respect your words and thoughts here, but I think working with my wife would be best.
It would most certainly be easier than working with us. She's much easier to gaslight than we are!


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You got that todo list?


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Originally Posted by Prisca
You got that todo list?

Prove us wrong.


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w1, what's with telling your wife that you are being "attacked"? We are on your side and telling you the things you need to do in order to make things better, the things that have worked for every formerly wayward husband or wife ever on this site.

So...

Rather than hiding behind your wife, read through this thread again now (before it gets any longer) and make a list of the things we've said you need to do, and post the list, along with dates as to when you think these things will be done.

Come on!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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[quote=Prisca]You got that todo list?
Yes I do!
I'm taking this from: HOW TO SURVIVE AN AFFAIR, Willard F. Harley, Jr., PhD
A reprint of chapter 13 of His Needs, Her Needs (2011 Edition)
1. End the Affair - Status: Done - I have no other affair partners and have told my wife about all physical and emotional affairs. I have told my wife about inappropriate relationships and conversations.
2. Create Transparency - Status: Continuing - I discontinued any hidden or secret second life - guarding myself from temptation since I know it will create more intimacy and compatibility together. Following the policy of radical honesty. I've given my wife all access to my electronic devices, text, phone, computer history. My wife has a 24-hour access to the places I go when we are not together. I am unemployed right now and my wife works at home, so we see each other quite a bit during the day. If I go back to work in an office, I will check-in with her several times a day via email, text, and calls. If I go back to work online at home, I will check in several times during the day.
3. Meet Each Other's Basic Emotional Needs - Status: Continuing - We are working together on this. We are reading together which is providing more insight into how we can provide even more support to each other.[ - /quote]

**Edit** - I just finished the first of the videos and will be taking notes on these and the books as well.

Thank you for all your motivating words - a bit difficult to read at times, but I know your hearts mean well.

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Here's a full checklist from Dr. Harley's book. The point of the following is to eliminate as much as possible any way a wayward spouse could be tempted. Your life becomes an open book and you spend all your time together.

Have you exposed your lifestyle to some people in your life who can hold you accountable?

"The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends."


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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Here's a full checklist from Dr. Harley's book. The point of the following is to eliminate as much as possible any way a wayward spouse could be tempted. Your life becomes an open book and you spend all your time together.

Have you exposed your lifestyle to some people in your life who can hold you accountable?

"The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends."

Thank you so much for this, LWFH!
We haven't gotten to that portion of the book, but we have reviewed these and have either checked them off the list or in process of doing so.
Thank you again.

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How about copy/paste the checklist and share with the forum what has been checked and what needs to be adressed. It might help you get organized and held accountable for what you still need to adress. MB is action oriented, hence the checklist.

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Per your request, LWFH!!

Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Checklist for How Affairs Should End - D-Done | I-In process

___D_The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

___D__The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

__D_The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

___D__The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

__I___Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

__I___Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

___I__Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

___D__Spend leisure time together.

_D____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_D____Avoid overnight separation.

___D__Allow technical accountability.

____D_ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends."

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__I___Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

__I___Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

___I__Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

What does the I stand for?


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
__I___Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

__I___Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

___I__Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

What does the I stand for?

Those were things my husband felt were “in-process” though they have mostly been taken care of.

1. He was unable to change his phone number because he was applying to jobs and that was the number he had put on multiple applications and it would be basically impossible for potential employers to contact him if he got a new number, so he blocked the OW’s number. He closed all email accounts except for one, which isn’t an email he used to contact her, and I have access to this including passwords. I also have full access to his phone, call records, text messages, etc.

2. I consider this one done, but since it isn’t in writing, maybe that’s why he listed it in progress? My husband has been unemployed and I work from home, so we both know each other’s schedule and what the other is doing since we’re together 24/7.

3. My husband still has an account my name isn’t on but was unable to close it because that is where his unemployment checks were being deposited and we were afraid trying to change it would cause a disruption because… government. His bank is being consolidated with another bank so he couldn’t add my name to the account or make any changes to it at all during the transition without closing the account and opening a new one, but that would have caused the same issues with the unemployment. But that is being solved because he starts a new job Monday! So relieved and excited. So that account will be closed and we’ll just have a joint account with both our names on it.


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