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Hi,<BR>This message is for younglove. The reason I signed hopeful is that I had that in mind as a username but unfortunately by the time I registered it was already taken.<P>Now as regards to the idea I suggested it was not mine but from a book I read. I know and aggree with you that it is not nice to play games but sometimes these tactics work. <P>But then after all it is up to ericstm (or Tom) to decide what actions to seek and follow. <P>I hope and pray for him that whatever the outcome he can make the best of it.<P>Stubborn

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Hi,<BR>This message is for younglove. The reason I signed hopeful is that I had that in mind as a username but unfortunately by the time I registered it was already taken.<P>Now as regards to the idea I suggested it was not mine but from a book I read. I know and aggree with you that it is not nice to play games but sometimes these tactics work. <P>But then after all it is up to ericstm (or Tom) to decide what actions to seek and follow. <P>I hope and pray for him that whatever the outcome he can make the best of it.<P>Stubborn

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I'm A Student in college and have had a long distance relationship for about a year now. Does a long distance relationship ever work?<BR>I feel perfectly happy in my relationship and I feel my g/f is to. Is it naive to believe that long distance relationships work? Can we still meet each other's emotional needs being so far apart? <p>[This message has been edited by BA (edited April 11, 2000).]

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Stubborn-<P>Of course it's Tom's opinion what he does in his case - but since we're all here to learn, it can't hurt to discuss the merits of various approaches. While sometimes games might "work", what exactly is it they achieve? Not a relationship built on honesty and trust! Since I consider that the goal, in my humble opinion, games never work since they never achieve that type of relationship.<P>BA-<P>I'm a little confused as to why, if you've been in a long distance relationship for over a year, you're asking if they work. Is it working so far? Are you afraid there'll come a time when it will stop working? <P>As for the naivety and emotional needs issues... that depends on your particular situation. How long were you together before the separation? How long will you be separated? What are your long-term plans? <BR>From what I've seen, long distance relationships have the best odds of success when two conditions are present: 1) the couple was well-established before the separation and 2) the separation is temporary and for a pre-defined point of time (for example, she's studying abroad for a semester, as opposed to you attend college in different states and neither intends to move after graduation). Shorter distances also help because they facilitate more frequent visits - the next state over instead of the opposite coast.<P>Tom-<P>How are you doing? Keeping busy? I hope all is well!

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Hi BA,<BR>Yes, long distance relationships do work but are very difficult in the sense that if in relationships where distance is not involved you tend to take things more for granted whereas in long distance makes you appreciate things more.<P>Also long distance relationships tend to be expensive VERY MUCH SO! I can tell you from my own experience. I am in North America and my fiance in Europe. <P>Due to work circumstances I am the one who does most of the travelling (though he pays for half the trips) and I go there about 5 times a year (so you can Imagine).<P>We see each other every day on Cameras via net meeting but still it is very hard.<P>BUT we are making plans for marriage. Hopefully next year we will tie the knot but I have to finish off my degree before that.<P>Though Long distance relationships are hard they are most rewarding as you do your utmost to make it work and the time spent away from each other helps us to think a great deal.<P>I think such relationships give you a chance to take a good look at yourself and your partner and help you to become a good communicator.<P>My final suggestion would be though, try to make your distances shorter as time passes believe me time does tend to take its toll on you.<P>As for me I would not go back one little bit as I can tell you that regardless of the distance we both know we want to get married and form a family.<P>If you are not serious about such a relationship it can drain you.<P>take care<P>stubborn<P>

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Hi younglove,<BR>As regards to your previous message I NEVER Implied in any way to use deceit for ericstm to get his GF back.<P>What I meant was for him to make her come to her senses and realise what she is about to lose if she does pursue other men.<P>There was also one other post which confirmed my opinion when she did not call BF and he felt he was going to lose her.<P>I know what you mean when you say that you should make things clear up front especially in long distance relationships but what better way then to show your partner that you are valueable and that it would be crazy to end such a relationship.<P>Helping out that person realise that is not being dishonest. Even Dr. Harley himself says it in his books. i.e. leave partner alone so that she/he does not have it both ways so that they come to their senses and realise the precious history and love they share with that special partner.<P>Stubborn

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Hi Stubborn-<P>Maybe it's a matter of interpretation, but I consider this deceit:<P>"make sure she notices you are happy (I know that right now you might say "yeah as if I can bear to look at her let alone show her I am happy") please try and try. Count the seconds if necessary make a picture in your head of what and how you will act but make sure she gets the message and then try to be nice and caring towards other girls in her prescence to show her what she is about to lose (do not flirt just be nice) then move back and wait do not succomb to calling her (lock your self in a room if necessary)."<P>If someone was acting according to his true feelings, he wouldn't need to lock himself in a room to keep from acting, nor would he have to picture in his head how he would act in the ex-GF's presence. And to me, not acting according to true feelings is deceitful. I too am basing this on Harley concepts. One of the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage is the rule of honesty, discussed here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html</A> <P>it's five components are discussed in detail in several of his books, including the Four Gifts of Love. <P>I'm unhappy with the adversarial tone our exchange has begun to have. I didn't mean to criticize you or your ideas, you are just as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, I only meant to present a different perspective. I'm sorry for any hurt feelings I've caused, it's hard to convey the intended tone electronically...

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younglove,<BR>I do not know how to tell you this. I do not want to offend you or anything but... I have read many of your posts and you tend to get on people's nerves (as you are now with me and you did with one of the moderators in another forum).<P>STOP IT ! OK ! ONCE and for all!<P>Have you read any of Dr Harley's Books? yes or no?<P>If you read any at all ok you will have (I am surely noticed !) that there are instances in his writing where poeple have to make an extra effort to to achieve something.<P>Now I am not giving you any more chances to start with the usual pattern I have noticed in your following of threads! <P>Either you act as a woman who is mature and wants to help people or CONTINUE YOUR HOLIER THAN THOU "ATTITUDE".<P>Well you might have noticed my username is stubborn and I KNOW I cannot stand people with your " " attitude.<P>SO Stop it act maturly becuase if you will continue acting this way I WILL NOT reply to any of your posts.<P>HOPE YOU GET THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL .<BR>

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younglove,<BR>I do not know how to tell you this. I do not want to offend you or anything but... I have read many of your posts and you tend to get on people's nerves (as you are now with me and you did with one of the moderators in another forum).<P>STOP IT ! OK ! ONCE and for all!<P>Have you read any of Dr Harley's Books? yes or no?<P>If you read any at all ok you will have (I am surely noticed !) that there are instances in his writing where poeple have to make an extra effort to to achieve something.<P>Now I am not giving you any more chances to start with the usual pattern I have noticed in your following of threads! <P>Either you act as a woman who is mature and wants to help people or CONTINUE YOUR HOLIER THAN THOU "ATTITUDE".<P>Well you might have noticed my username is stubborn and I KNOW I cannot stand people with your " " attitude.<P>SO Stop it act maturly becuase if you will continue acting this way I WILL NOT reply to any of your posts.<P>HOPE YOU GET THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL .<BR>

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Please, everybody, there are people who are hurting here! For some of us, this is the only place where we can find support and strength to face the difficulties in our lives. If you must debate about the issue as to who is right and who is wrong, I kindly ask that you bring it elsewhere. I THANK you!<P>For BA - <P>Long distance relationship will work if it is built with a strong foundation of trust. LDR is especially vulnerable to trust issues. Please keep that in mind and do everything in your power to keep the trust intact in your relationship! I wish you the very best with it. For me, it was by far the best relationship I ever had. Unfortunately, it's over now....

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BA,<P> LD relationships can be some of the strongest around b/c they are based deep in your feelings not anything physical (depending on how often you get to see the other person). <P> For me the LD relationship I had was the most rewarding I ever had. At the same time it was also the hardest i have ever had. For me I was only able to speak with my GF about once ever month or so and only got to see her about once every 5 months. <P> I never had doubts about our future and assumed that if we made it through the two years she was in the Peace Corps that there was nothing that could tear us apart. The problem is she started to doubt her love for me over those two years. About 2 months ago she destroyed our relationship by not being truthful with me. <P> Like Demeter said LD relationships are set deeply in trust. When that trust is compromised the relationship is doomed b/c one partner is left with all the doubts and feelings of betrayal. I have not yet recovered from that and the things that were said to me by my GF still haunt me like they happened yesterday. <P>The only thing I can tell you is that you need to be completly honest with yourself and with your partner. Hope this helps.<P>Best of luck!<P>

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Demeter<BR>I aggree with you 100%. I never meant to fight with anyone. My aim was and still is to give some advice or prayers to people who need it.<P>Unfortunately others see it as a fertile battle ground for who is right and wrong which is really ugly considering that here we are all trying to give some help to each other.<P>Personally I feel I had to do what I did because I saw a pattern coming that I wanted to stop right away.<P>I hope that in the future such things will not repeat themselves.<P>As for me I have made a decision to answer ONLY to people who are serious about helping and not all out for a good tug of war with who's right or wrong.<P>Thanks for your comment<P>Stubborn

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BA<BR>One thing which I have found really helpful in my LD relationship besides honesty and trust is have a lot of optimism and imagination.<P>I know that it is hard in a long distance relationship to keep a good flow in the Love Bank but personally i have found that satisfying needs of communication and things of mutual interest to both partners like hobbies etc can be of great help.<P>Try to go through Dr. Harley's articles and see how you can adapt the his needs her needs for your LD relationship.<P>Though you will not have the opportunity to be with your GF in person that way you will make her feel good about herself and the special relationship you share.<P>With me and my fiance it is giving him the opportunity to talk when he really opens up and considering he is the silent quiet type that is a real boost for both of us!<P>Hope to hear from you soon<P>Sutbborn<P>

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younglove- Of coarse I think LDR work if I didn't my g/f and I would not be together. I guess the reason why I wrote is for feedback or encouragement. Here's the story.<BR>We went to school togeter, and during my senior year we started courting. Her father got tired of his job and decided to move back to his home state (MN) which is across the contry from where I am(TX). She's graduating early from High school and is planning on going to college in MN for the first year. We don't know if we are going to be able to go to college togeter later. So the maximum time will be apart is like four years. I see her every summer and Christmas and spring break. I call her once a week and e-mail her everyday.<BR>I love her and I don't mind waiting for her. I am completly honest with her. I wonder if I'm to honest. <BR>When I first came to college last semester. I was completly lost. I came from a small private school and now I was at a big state college. Then I met a great friend, who showed me around college. She preaty much looked out for me for awhile. She was someone I was accountable to I guess. Anyway I told my g/f about my friend and she got jealous. Which is understandable I guess.<BR>The thought of being with another woman just turns my stomach. I don't want to be with anyone but my g/f.<BR>Is there anything I can do to let her know I don't want to be with anyone but her and help her not feel jealous.<BR>Am I being unfaithful, by having a good friend in college? <P>thank you all for all the encouragement.! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR><p>[This message has been edited by BA (edited April 12, 2000).]

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BA<BR>I understand you completely. One thing which your girlfriend may feel about this friend is that since you are spending time with her you might ending up being taken away from her and that is understandable.<P>I hope you told your girlfriend that your intentions are serious with her and that you will make it a point to be 100% honest with her.<P>Now with regards to the other person that she has helped you so much is to make it clear with this friend that you are happy with your girlfriend and have a commitment towards her when it comes to faithfulness.<P>If people do not have friends we would be isolated in a glass bottle and be just us and our partners.<P>But there is social life still regardless of the situations.<P>I can tell you from my experience my boyfriend and I still have friends and go out but we know we are both faithful because we love each other and that at this point we cannot be watchdogs to each other either we are faithful or not.<P>So if when you talk to your girlfriend you show her and tell her how important she is to you how you miss her and how much she means to you that will make all the difference.<P>Having a friend does not mean cheating in the future.<P>Me and my boyfriend do have friends of the opposite sex just that both of us have made it clear to them that only him and me are in an exclusive relationship no matter what.<P>One thing try not to be too much of a confidante to this friend and vice versa ....<P>That is where trouble starts off remember she or you would be meeting one of your needs and your/her love bank would start receiving deposits....<P>That is what you should watch.<P>Stubborn

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BA-<P>I don't think you can ever be too honest with your girlfriend. It's a good thing that you told her about your friend. I can guarantee you that if you didn't and she later finds out about it, the situation will be much worse. I know because I was once in your girlfriend's shoes! My philosophy has always been, "people only hide what shameful things they can't share with others." In my mind the contrary is also true: when you try to hide it, it must be something that's shameful!<P>Stubborn had a lot of good advice in her last post. One of the ones I want to stress is don't share too much with your other female friend. It will only lead you to places you will later regret going! Also, be mentally prepared to react if situation should ever arise where you will be tempted to cheat on your girlfriend. Go through all of the possible scenarios in your head and come up with strategies on how you are going to handle every single one of them in the most appropriate way you know how. I think a lot of times, we do the wrong things because we aren't mentally prepared to deal with it in a manner that's more appropriate. I know that's certainly the case with my exBF. Last but not least, involve your girlfriend in a lot of the things you do. I don't mean physically. Rather, get her opinions on issues that affect you. You don't necessarily have to take her advice, but by telling her things that bother you, things you plan to do, things you don't know how to do or deal with, etc. she will see that you are serious about your relationship with her because you at least consult with her. Best of luck!<p>[This message has been edited by demeter (edited April 13, 2000).]

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BA<BR>Here is my last post for today or else I will end up stuck to my pc too much time. One thing which I found really funny and that helps me and my boyfriend to come closer in an unusual way is to send things to each other.<P>This is funny (not romantic) but believe me things like this help.<P>Instead of sending the usual things for valentines or romantic things what me and my boyfriend do is to send unusual things....<P>One time he was complaining of dandruff and a certain brand we have here is not for sale in Europe so I sent him a bottle in a padded envelope with the words "wash your hair well!" <P>Imagine the people at the post office and the postman when he delivered!<P>As for me on valentines I got (this is funny!!) three kilos worth of good cheese that will last me until the time we meet again!(Know why? It is the cheese I like to eat most when I go to visit him!!)<P>You should have seen my face and the postman here when I opened it!<P>I know maybe as I said these are far from romantic ideas BUT they definetly brought us together!<P>These are memories that really last believe me and if you cannot make yourself available in person send each oter things you know will remind you of each other and moments you share. (maybe not cheese or shampoo) But...<P>I leave that to your humor and imagination.....<P>Nite Nite<P>Stubborn

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THIS IS FOR STUBBORN-<P>I am incredibly shocked and hurt by your attack on me. But mostly I am confused. I have never been insulted by anyone on this thread before and I do not know why it is occurring now. Why are you speaking for other people? You talk in the plural of me "getting on other peoples' nerves". Since I have seen no posts where I have been the topic of discussion, I'm not sure how you know how others feel about me. Also, I have never been corrected by a Moderator, or had any contact with a Moderator at all. I did post on a thread in which another user was corrected by a Moderator, but it was clear that comment was not directed at me.<P>I have read every single one of Dr. Harley's books, with the exception of Surviving an Affair because that is not a problem my relationship has faced yet and I'm hoping to keep it that way by having read the others. I have also read all of the Basic Concepts pages on the non-forum part of the website.<P>You've asked me to "STOP IT ! OK ! ONCE and for all!" but that's not possible for me to do, since I don't know what the "it" is that you speak of. In over four months as a forum member, I have only been on two posts in which there was any animosity at all (not counting this one). The one I mentioned before, in which the animosity came not from me but someone else, who was then corrected by the moderator, and one on the EM board - Emmiebear's thread - and as far as I know, because she has posted to threads of mine since and been very helpful, she bears me no ill will. In her thread there wasn't even "animosity" per se, the thread was about religious disagreements (or became about it eventually) and I did not become involved in a debate about religion until she indicated she would welcome such a debate - in fact she invited it!<P>If you really think I feel "holier than thou" you may not have read all of my posts! I think it's pretty clear I'm here to learn, that's why we all came to the MB doorstep, right? So, you're right that I'm not really here to help, only because there are so many problems here I'm not qualified even to give advice on having never experienced them myself. But when opinions are requested, I give mine, same as you. I suspect you think I have this type of attitude because it's clear in my posts that I'm Christian. I honestly don't know where else you're getting this from. <P>Right now, the threat of you not replying to any of my posts if I don't comply to what you want me to be isn't really a negative in my point of view, because I feel totally attacked! This has come out of left field. As I said before, in more than four months no one, member or moderator, has ever chastized me, much less to this degree. Is it possible my handle is similar to someone else's?<P>I'd also like to point out that, if I really had the attitude you describe, I wouldn't have extended an olive branch when I thought things were getting a little hairy!

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Hi Younglove,<P>I wanted to respond to you here as well as on the other thread.<P>Everyone is here for different reasons. I find that your reasons are admirable and the insight you offer is very worthwhile and appreciated.<P>May I suggest that for those who are to mule headed to see the compassion and appreciate the thought that you put into your replies simply avoid them.<P>This is a forum based on Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts for ensureing a life time of romantic love with your partner. I have read many of your posts and see nothing in the way of disrespectful comments - and certainly nothing that offends.<P>There are <B>many</B> books out there. And many of them offer solutions that would actually have the opposite effect that you desire. Reading a book and seeing a solution does not make it a good one necessarily.<P>The Harley methods are tried, tested and true. It can be scary sometimes the suggestions that are offered that are so much "outside" of these methods. This forum was meant to work in compliment with his methods - something I see you offering most of the time.<P>Cheers,<BR>Lisa<P>P.S. I think that Stubborn has you mixed up with someone else regarding the moderator comment. If I am wrong, I appologize. I have <B>NEVER</B> seen anything you have offered that would "get on my nerves". I think that this may happen if people do not understand your (MB related) perspective. In light of the intentions of this forum, I respectfully suggest that you keep in mind the thinking process behind that hurtful comment.

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Younglove,<BR>I read your post regarding my response and the way you feel attacked.<P>I responded that way because I did not want you to start bickering on who is right and wrong, especially you quoting back things I wrote. (I know what I wrote and there was no need to be hammered things back). <P>I told you twice that in my response to Ericstm that I did not mean deceit, but you kept on pushing.<P>The reason why I told you to stop was because I saw your insistence regardless of my responses. <P>That way the whole point of the forum was being sidetracked (i.e. to give help support and advice to those who need it). Instead it was turning into a parliament debate.<P>If people in a forum do not agree that is fine, but to turn people's postings into "whatever you say shall be used against you" is a bit too much, and that is exactly the way I felt when you began quoting things back at me I had written.<P>Even demeter realised there was animosity in the air. He/she in fact said that if people wanted to start arguing could take it somewhere else.<P>Now if you want to continue responding in a proper way that is fine by me. <P>I rest my case.

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