My wife and I have been married for 10 years and have 2 children with a third on the way. During this last pregnancy, I confronted my wife about a guy friend of hers that she had while we were dating. I had always had the feeling that she had cheated on me with him. We discussed this situation once before while we were in college and she assured me that they had just kissed. Well this time I got her to admit that the cheating went well beyond innocent kissing. I also found out that she had been with two other people while we were dating. Even though this happened while we were still dating, I feel as though she has cheated on me in our marriage.<P>I never cheated on her nor have I had sex with anyone else other than her. I am having an extremely hard time dealing with this. I am sure that a lot of my problems stem from me being a "virgin" prior to our marriage. I knew before the marriage that she was not a "virgin." Finding out about the cheating, though, has made me reevaluate the whole "virgin" thing. We have discussed this situation and my wife feels that I need to have sex with someone else so that I can see that its just sex when you don't love the person. She thinks that I need to do this in order for use to move on in our relationship. I am very seriously considering the idea. I would appreciate any advice that might be out there.<BR>

I think it's ridiculous! When did two wrongs ever make a right? There is a lot of acceptance that comes with marriage and that is what you are facing now. Can you accept that your wife, the mother of your children whom you have loved as no other for over 10 years, did things BEFORE you were married. We all have faults. You need to be able to accept the past as the past. Then move on to dealinging with your feelings of betrayal. But recognize that you went looking for this. Ever hear of letting sleeping dogs lie. If you did not believe she was cheating within your marriage why go and look for stuff beforehand? You have a beautiful family that you are putting in jepardy. Intimate relations with someone else bring a whole lot of unexpected dirty laundry into your marriage. Why drag another person into this, even if there are no feelings attached just to be able to say we're even??? Or see I told you it didn't make a difference? You will be committing adultery no matter what the reasons behind it. In my opinion, this is a HUGE mistake.

I don't find it ridiculous, however, I do find it very dangerous.<P>Be very, very, VERY careful. Think and rethink again. Infidelity has the potential to destroy relationships--you have felt its sting with your feelings yourself.<P>H and I have a swinging history. Right or wrong, it was a decision we made together and we also explored swinging only together. I'd really worry about going off on your own for sex. Perhaps you can explain to me what benefit there would be because I sure don't see it as healthy for your marriage.<P>Why don't you two explore new sexual ideas together instead? I've suggested before to more daring couples--check out a sex club. We did, and had no personal contact with others but had a blast. Or watch videos together. Or buy sex toys. There's a LOT of things you can try and enjoy together without complicating issues with a separate affair.<P>Keep posting. I think this topic touches upon something many people have felt, a desire to "even the score."<P>Laura

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucks:<BR><B>I don't find it ridiculous, however, I do find it very dangerous.<P>Be very, very, VERY careful. Think and rethink again. Infidelity has the potential to destroy relationships--you have felt its sting with your feelings yourself.<P>H and I have a swinging history. Right or wrong, it was a decision we made together and we also explored swinging only together. I'd really worry about going off on your own for sex. Perhaps you can explain to me what benefit there would be because I sure don't see it as healthy for your marriage.<P>Why don't you two explore new sexual ideas together instead? I've suggested before to more daring couples--check out a sex club. We did, and had no personal contact with others but had a blast. Or watch videos together. Or buy sex toys. There's a LOT of things you can try and enjoy together without complicating issues with a separate affair.<P>Keep posting. I think this topic touches upon something many people have felt, a desire to "even the score."<P>Laura</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for your understanding reply Laura. I too do not find the idea ridiculous. I truly appreciate your concern about damaging my marriage as a result of me having sex with someone else. I can assure you that my wife loves me and will always love me. We have explored the idea of bring someone else into the equation. She has shown a desire to be with, to my surprise, another woman. She still, though, wants me to be with someone else before we explore the realm of a "threesome."<P>I want everyone to know that my wife and I have an extremely passionate sex life (hense the three children) and I will not do anything that would jeopardize our relationship. Without more advice, I am still leaning towards having a "one night stand."

jsg--<P>Just exactly how would this be arranged?<P>I'm concerned about the aftermath of feelings. <P>Non-judgementally, if your W is bi-curious I'm still wondering why this can't be explored together (or not) if you are in agreement?<P>Laura

Laura<P>I do not know why my wife wants me to go first. I would assume that she feels guilty about her sexual past and this will somehow put us on a even playing field. We can then explore "equally" in other endeavors. I have asked her about this before and she tells me that she just thinks that it is something I have to do.

No offense intended, but my take on this (at this point) is that you are manipulating the situation...by elevating your W's guilt re past sex thus compelling her to suggest something that may actually make her feel quite uncomfortable.<P>Try discussing this from a POJA standpoint. I'd REALLY like to hear that this is reallllllly okay with your W. <P>Laura

Laura,<P>All I can tell you is what she has told me to do. I am in no way trying to "manipulate" the situation. This has been an extremely horrific experience for the both of us. You don't know how many times I have wished that she had never told me. The reason for bringing up the issue in the first place was due to the fact that one of the "guys" that she cheated on me with also works out at the gym that I work out at. Obviously, seeing him at the gym made me curious again after all these years. This "guy" also happened to be a friend of mine while in high school. When I nonchalanty brought up the fact that he worked out at the same gym, I could tell by her expression that she thought he had told me something. There was nothing else she could do at that point but tell me the truth.<P>This situation has changed our lives for ever. We will never be the same. I have forgiven her for her past behavior and still love her along with desiring her. I think that maybe in the back of her mind she does not want me to go through with it, but for some reason thinks it will bring some sort of theraputic relief to our lives.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will not do anything that would jeopardize our relationship. Without more advice, I am still leaning towards having a "one night stand."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, here's some more advice. I truly believe the way you are going about this has the potential to jeopardize your relationship. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This situation has changed our lives for ever. We will never be the same. I have forgiven her for her past behavior and still love her along with desiring her. I think that maybe in the back of her mind she does not want me to go through with it, but for some reason thinks it will bring some sort of theraputic relief to our lives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If the originating situation has changed your lives forever, what makes you think a one-night stand now won't? And, WILL it be for the better? What if your W DOES feel forced to agree to you having a one-nighter? I'm sure in discussion it seems "fair." How can one argue "fairness?" With emotion? Well, that's a scary defense...she may feel too vulnerable to tell you how she really feels; she's certainly already "in the wrong." <P>Maybe she doesn't believe you HAVE forgiven her and THAT's the therapeutic relief for which she searches. So say that thought is correct. Guilt, on top of more guilt perhaps? You may end up with a two-fold problem instead of just one.<P>On the other hand, maybe you are both free-thinking enough for this to be a success. So then you'd have some more sexual experience. Once I grew up, my parents actually told me to explore my sexuality before settling down so I wouldn't be like them, virginal pre-marriage and monogomous--they always wondered if they were missing something (and yet I always found their adoration of each other remarkable and as sexually charged as they obviously were, I really don't think they missed a thing.)<P>People variety? Not needed if you have a wonderful partner, in my opinion (and experience). And sounds like you do. So I'm still wondering what you hope to gain from this experience? Is it just something you need to learn for yourself? Now that could be, there's a lot of life experiences people just can't believe until they go through it.<P>I think the thing that bothers me about this is that as far as Emotional Needs go, your plans actually take an aspect of Sexual Fulfillment AWAY from the relationship, separately. It's bound to create some negative feelings between you and your W. You may be able to work through them. But what if you can't? Would you then wish you hadn't even gone that route? Is it worth it?<P>And...(yes, I'm still on my soap box), have you considered all the other surrounding issues? STD's? The chance of this developing into MORE than a one-night stand (feelings might develop for that other person)? Any hurt your W might experience? By the way, would she know when you're doing this (as in, waiting at home, the clock ticking, her imagination running wild), or would you just inform her after the deed is done? <P>I still suggest lots of talk before you go through with this. Read all the principles located here at this website. They're a great lesson-book for any loving relationship. Make sure you are considering your W's feelings AS IMPORTANTLY AS YOURS, and that you are really listening to her feelings. You cannot change the past, but you can learn from it and make informed choices now.<P>And I still think there are other ways to explore sexuality...together. Even swinging, though many people entirely disagree that this is even kosher, has its own set of rules for couples--they agree or the exploration stops or alters to suit comfort levels.<P>Wanna debate it some more?<P>Laura<BR>

Laura,<P>From reading your last reply, I am pretty sure that you were not a virgin when you met your husband. I will assume for the purposes of discussion that he was not a virgin either.<P>I knew going into my marriage that my wife was not a virgin. According to her, at that time, there were only two other people that she had been with. She told me that they meant nothing to her and that I was the only person that counted. I really had no problem with that at the time and took her for her word. Two months ago, though, I found out (from her) that her prior sexual experiences were far from being with just two people. The 12 year lie (we've been married for 10 but lived together for 2 years prior) hit me like a ton of bricks. Not as much that she had cheated on me, but the fact that she had lied to me for so long. Had she told me prior to our marriage, I am sure that we would have broke up. Eventually we would have ended up back together because of our strong love for each other. Also, I could have dealt with the situation at that time and not have to worry now about committing "adultery."<P>In our conversations, it came out that she had been sexually active since she was 15 years old. She blames this on (and I agree) her parents for never discussing the issue with her and letting her go out with a guy who was in college. She thought that having sex was just something you finished with when making out with someone.<P>I don't know that feeling because I never had sex with anyone before my wife. And yes, you do wonder what it would be like. I have a strong feeling that it would never be as good as it is between my wife and I. She has assured me that it has never been as good as it is between us. But once again, I do not know. Your parents have actually done you a great favor by telling you to explore prior to marriage. I know that might piss some people off, but I do not want my children to go through what I have gone through.<P>Yes, my wife and I are very sexually open. We have discussed "swinging," but she really has no desire to be with another man (at least that is what she has told me). I think that she views this (me having sex with someone else) as step we must take to continue the healing process. I have no doubt whatsoever that my wife will fully forgive me, if and when I decide to go through with it.<P>I really do appreciate being able to discuss this with you Laura. You have provided me with a much needed outlet. I hope you realize that I have given this issue A LOT of thought. Please keep open the lines of communication.

jsg—<P>FWIW, “swinging” doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be two couples swapping. To me, it’s a lifestyle of freer sex thinking beyond an exclusive, monogamous relationship, but within a couple it has its own rules and agreed upon boundaries. The definition of a “swinger” is one who engages freely in sex. Some couples don’t fully swap. Some only choose certain people to join them (only females, only males, only couples). There’s a bunch of different preferences out there and the general rule swingers tend to follow is “no means no.” I have personally found groups of swingers to be very courteous and non-pushy (and wonder why all interest groups aren’t as accepting of people differences). <P>It is not my intent to upset anyone with this discussion. It is not an endorsement for that kind of lifestyle. It is simply a discussion. I apologize for any affront felt by anyone reading this. <P>ANYway…you still haven’t mentioned how this will be effected. If you’d rather not talk about it, fine. But I am curious and see trouble brewing, not exactly for what you intend to do (being rather a non-traditionalist myself), but how. I also guess I wish to save you possible pain by playing devil’s advocate to be sure you HAVE considered it all in the most informed fashion possible. I don’t doubt you’ve considered many aspects…but all? <P>H and I both have sexually experienced pasts. I’m glad we found each other and we are so compatible in that department. Sounds like you haven’t experienced the frustration and anguish of having a spouse (second marriage for both of us) with a MARKEDLY different interest in sex. A lot of people here are experiencing that and trying to work through it. For that you can be thankful!<P>Final thought this go-round. I may be a bit less concerned about your experimentation if it didn’t smack so much of one-upmanship as the deciding factor. Ya know? If you do this, are you benefiting actually at your W’s expense? Her separate experience is now water under the bridge and she’s come clean in conversation. I’m not really sure that you “demanding” the same freedom now, just for yourself, is a good lesson in exchange for her honesty? <P>Okay, enough “fussing.” I hope my responses don’t irritate you, as negative as they seem—because I DO understand.<P>Laura<BR>

Laura,<P>I truly appreciate your openess and honesty. It has been so hard to try and open up to someone about my situation. Your questions and views have definitely given me something to think about.<P>Once again, though, I am not "demanding" anything out of my situation. This is an option that has been provided to me by my wife without persuasion. I would never demand her to let me have sex with someone else. I would prefer sharing the experience with her, but she wants to me for some reason to experience it first by myself. So what are you doing Saturday night?<P>I do not know how the experience will come about. My wife has suggested going to the bar or visiting another town's nightlife. I have to admit that I would be terrified to go to the bar and try to pick someone up since I haven't done that for years. She has also suggested that it could be with one of her girlfriends. Either way I am going to be nervous as hell (hence wanting my wife to be a part of the experience).<P>Thanks for your advice and keep up the lifestyle that makes you and your spouse happy. <P>JSG

Funny, but my gut feeling is not that you are manipulating her, but that she is manipulating you, by playing on your jealous feelings. I would advise caution.<P>An old thread that might be of some interest...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001626.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/001626.html</A>

Hello, I’m not really sure how to respond to this. This topic is almost better fit on a different list. Hence, the section “the early years” which I think is meaning couples who are “in” their early years. Just a thought, you may get a better response from people who have been married longer and would not have thought to look in this section.<P>Me, I have been married just under two months. As a “newbee” to the situation, all I can offer is advice that my wife and I have learned in our pre-marriage years, but as a Christian, I hope to offer some spiritual advice as well.<P>I, being raised with more Christian Values, was taught to “wait until marriage”. My sister, also being raised with the same thing was of the rebellious type, with the “you can’t tell me what to do.” And because of it she has gone through some emotional trauma, and an unwanted pregnancy. Later down the road when she got married to a really nice guy, who took her daughter in as His own. But she told me that her sexual experience before marriage emotionally effected him more than he thought and caused stress in the bedroom for their first six months of marriage.<P>I waited until my marriage, to be united with one partner, to be committed both physically & spiritually as God had intended. He made Adam and Eve: not Adam, Eve, Bob, Jill, Fred, Steve, or whatever. In His plan, this is what he intended. <BR>My wife, on the other hand, had not waited. As every human being, she was looking for love, just in the wrong places. It has only caused her heart ache, and pain, and problems in our relationship. The one night stand may feel good for a time, and may solve the problem temporary; but as we have learned the past will always catch up to you in the future. The Bible says, “Sin is pleasure for a season” but there are consequences to pay down the road.<P>Enough preaching, every human being want’s to feel trust with their spouse. Just think how much it hurt you knowing that she was with other people when you dated. Sure she may think it is okay now, but I guarantee deep down it will hurt her. And down the road it may cause more problems to your relationship. Also, think about the person you sleep with for that one night. Know it may be hurting them in their future relationships, are they married? Are they safe? <BR>How do you know if they are? If your wife lied to you about her past, who’s to say you can trust someone you meet for a one night stand?<BR>Since you are on the Harley forum, I am under the impression you know a little of what he teaches as a councilor. Statistics state that women who have had sex before marriage have a 70% rate of divorce. Take some time and read some of the forums about people dealing emotionally with their spouse’s Adultery, you might want to know how your wife may end up feeling in the future. After all sex was meant for intimacy between two people committed to each other, to say there is no emotional impact on either of you would be doubtful.<P>Hope this helped,<BR>James<P>

Thanks James.<P>Your insight proves you have wisdom beyond your years. My only wish is that more people felt the way you do. It is nice to hear from a MAN that waited until marriage to have sex with his wife.<P>Your are correct that this subject is better suited on a different forum. I have addressed the same issue under the "In Recovery" forum. The thread, I believe, is entitled "Why is revenge such a bad idea?" The topic apparently struck a nerves in a lot of people and generated a lot of replies.<P>Once again thanks for your advice.

Before I give any advice, I'll tell you my story... which is similar to yours.<P>My husband and I were high school sweethears and both virgins before we met. I was very religious and he was probably too shy. We did have sex together prior to marriage for about 6 months.<P>We were married for 13 years and then we got divorced in 1999. Now we are living together and trying to get back together. However, while we were apart, both of us slept with someone else. This has caused both of us a lot of grief. Mine was a one-night stand that really meant nothing and was not even that enjoyable. His was a very intense relationship that did not end when we started to get back together, although he said it had. Actually, he cheated on me with her for 5 months before we moved in together. It has been 4 months since d-day.<P>For awhile I thought that I should "get even" and have sex with that same guy again (especially since it would make him so jealous). But, I decided that two wrongs do not make a right. If I wanted to get back together with my ex-husband, then I needed to work on forgiving and forgetting ... instead of revenge.<P>He is upset that I didn't love the guy that I had sex with. I am upset that he did love the girl that he had sex with and then an affair.<P>Anyway, the result is that we both ruined the special relationship that we used to have where we were each others first and only. We both wish that we could change that, but we can't.<P>My advice is to forgive and forget what happened 10 years ago. Work on improving your sex life with your wife, even if it is already great. Try something new ... but not someone new.<P>I think that having a one-night stand is openning a bag of worms, even with your wife's permission ... you will probably create more problems than you already have. There are too many things that could happen, even when you don't plan for them to happen. Your wife is probably encouraging you out loud, but silently hoping that you won't do it.<P>The only positive thing that could come out of this is for the sex with the other woman to be bad and for you realize how great your wife is or for it to be the same and you realize that sex is sex. All the bad things that could happen are not worth the possiblity of finding these things out.<P>Personally, I think you will strengthen your marriage if you resist this "opportunity" for the one-night stand.<P>------------------<BR>Jennidy<P>"Work like you don't need the money,<BR>Love like you've never been hurt, and<BR>Dance like no one's watching."

Listen.... I am sorry if I sound very harsh, please forgive me. I completely understand your situation and how you feel, at the same token I believe you're trying to start something that is not in existence. <P>So far as am concerned she has been very faithful ever since ya married. Why put her through this, do you know how much she is wishing that you leave this alone, even though she might be loud sometimes. <P>She did something ten years ago and you wanna make it a big deal today, come on! look how beautiful your family is now, and compare it to ten years ago. The most important thing is she is with you and not even trying to be with the other guy. I say take a vacation and leave it alone, give your kid/kids that special gift by not doing anything.<P>Because anything you do now, I gurantee you you'll forever ruin your special relationship. Leave it alone. Change gyms, do something different, avoid areas where this guy might hang out, and concentrate on your self, her and your kids. <P>Take this topic and shove it somewhere else, don't give her the chance of seeking comfort somewhere, am sure this is very stressful. Work on yourself. <P>Good Luck<BR>Real123

Before you do this...I suggest you go to the divorced/divorcing board and read some of the posts there..<BR>ask if anyone there has done this..and see how it effected<BR>their marriages...if it was a good thing they wouldn't be<BR>in the divorce/divorcing area....