Things are a bit tricky right now.

The past while I have stopped inititating contact with my husband.

And he has started doing some things that seem like an indication that he is wanting to resume married life with me.

For example:

He has now moved his things into our house and is spending more time there when he isn't working. (I don't live there, but it is close by.)

He has called me four times in the past two days, just to say hi. This is unusual.

He doesn't know it, but I don't plan to live with him until such a time as he is walking with God, has had counseling to deal with his issues, and we have gone through marriage counseling.

I don't want to push him away, but my feeling is that if we are to be together, we have to start over fresh from scratch, almost as if we had just met.


The way he is right now, I wouldn't consider living with him.

What we had before was a nightmare for 20 years.I won't go back to that. There is no point. It was a house divided.

But I think he thinks that I am waiting for him to come back.

I don't know what to say to him, but I think we need to talk about this soon..


Shul

Shul,

This has to be God. I just got done posting to you on the other standers forum. Then I came here and you were asking for advice on the very thing I posted about. Remind you, I haven't posted much in months, I especially haven't posted on the other forum.

Please go and read that post and then respond. I do have to tell you, you must be ready to accept your husband however God chooses to send him home. Your trust is not in your husband. You will never be able to trust him or any other human. Your trust is in the Lord. You must trust God to take care of you and protect you and provide for you.

I too had many things I "wanted" changed in my husband before he came home. God showed me I had to trust Him and I had to accept my husband and love him as he was. When my husband came home, some things had changed and many had not. I still pray for these things and I just to trust that God knows what He is doing. God is working on my husband. I have to show him the love of Christ no matter what he is doing. This is so important for restoration. Let God restore the way He chooses to restore.

gentle

Hi Shul and Gentle.

Shul, don't know your history except what is in this post, but from this, I can say I have been exactly where you are...and this is what happened to me:

After his 2nd A, I had no hope for the marriage, or my H. But I did hope for his healing (and mine)...and I planned on an eventual divorce.

He began reading the bible from the moment we separated. His heart began to change from the moment I kicked him out, though I didn't trust him. He wanted to know what I needed in order to take him back. Honestly, I told him I needed an entirely new H. He then set about to make that happen.

He also asked me for a list of what I would need from him in order to take him back. A "Plan of Correction", if you will.

So I made one, no holds barred. It turned out to be almost 3 pages long!

It was an "Expectations" List. Conditional? Yes. But I would not stop loving him if he didn't meet these expectations...they were just the expectations that would make for the best recovery, the best marriage. And, in it's own way, it was measureable proof of his committment to the marriage. I didn't want to be enabling like I was after the 1st A.

i.e. Marriage counseling with a Christian counselor...for at least a year

Christian IC counseling for him...for at least a year

Weekly church attendance

Weekly bible study together

Wearing his wedding ring

Dividing up the chores or doing them together

Bi-monthly date nights

Actively looking for a new job (he works with the xow)

Etc., etc. Realistically, I've had to cross off a few things on my looooong list. Going on a small cruise to celebrate our reconcilliation no longer appeals to me, I'd much rather spend it on much needed home repairs, for example. Plus, I'd hate to miss church. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> A few other things were also negotiated to fit situations as they arised.

He now has an Accountablity Partner--who also happens to be one of our pastors...so he no longer sees an IC (who was also an MC). And almost 1 year later, we no longer need MC, God has us so fulfilled and on track. Though we are both agreed, we will go SPRINTING back to our Christian MC if we ever need it.

But alot of the things on my list were just guidelines or directions that my H wanted for himself, anyway. He just didn't know "the stuff". I never demanded anything. I had no real expectations from him. They were just a wistful wish list, to me. But he gobbled it all up and made the best happen.

God was already working on my H. I didn't have anything to do with that. That was ALL God (and He is SOOO GOOD!). But where God directed my H to ask me what I wanted...I sure WENT FOR IT!

Is this "Stander's forum" on MB? I hope it is.

My prayer is that MB has a Christian forum--not just "hidden away" in the Prayer Requests forum but a place for Christians to openly discuss and invite recovery issues...and perhaps to help lead other secular MB people check it out, and find the joys of being in Christ, in the process. You know?

Ignore that angst-y signature line of mine...the facts are right, but I am no longer "waiting to see what happens". That was the old me. Now we only strive to stay in His will.

Haven't been to MB in a long time. Darn, gotta change that siggy line. It's on my "to do" list now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thank you both.

I love this man and my hearts desire is to see him whole; healed and receiving Gods love.

But it is unsafe for me to live with him until he is healed.

God has given me a place to live and a job- put me out of harms way when my husband left a year ago.

For all these many years I would not leave him. I stayed in obedience to God, trusting that He would keep me safe, and in the belief that eventually my love would draw him into the light.

I also believe that God removed him from us, so that we would be out of harms way while He dealt with him.

And I have seen how in the past year he has experienced consequences to some of his self destructive behavior.

My 'wish 'list would be more in trems of negative condiitons for us to live together, right now;

no physical abuse
no verbal abuse
no lawbreaking
no drunkenness
no lying
no adultery


As things are, he is welcome to visit us, he has no pressure to support us or to be accountable for his money, he is free to come and go as he likes, if he breaks the law I am not at risk, and he has no reason to lie, as I do not ask him his whereabouts etc.

I am free to be his friend, to be seen as his friend rather than his adversary or prison guard. It frees us to be open with one another in a way that we were not before.

I guess I will keep praying and take this one day at at a time.

I understand, Shul.

But if he asks what he can do...I think having a positive measureable list of SUGGESTIONS would be more helpful than one with, as you call it negative conditions.

One of the things I remember about being separated and on my own was it got to be very comfortable. It was just me and my God. I was safe from my H's emotional, mental, financial, verbal abuse. I was financially secure. There was no risk, really. It was a very peaceful, beautiful place to be. I sometimes really miss those days! And, yes, it was wonderful not being "adversaries" with my H for the first time. And to not "police" someone, not have to negotiate everything...so relaxing!

Sometimes, to actually reconcile doesn't have much appeal at all!

And to actually begin any talks of reconcilliation. Well, it was downright frightening. I think I went through a second spell of depression...just knowing the amount of work, risk, and 24/7 submission I was about to be putting myself through again. To someone who's spiritual status was questionable.

Us both having our own Christian IC (and our counselors are actually married to eachother) really helped us, and our recovery, stay God-focused. I hope that one day your H is open to another Christian man giving him counsel and one that he can have accountability with.

Do you, personally, have a Christian IC? A woman's bible study/prayer group? I cannot stress enough the importance of fellowship--Christian IC and support groups! Especially at this time.

I've condensed alot here. I do not mean to come on strong like a control freak. There is a total call to submission here, and to "let go and let God" which I am in agreement in. But the Lord also directs us, at times to take action...to seek assistance in our brethren, our church. To respectfully offer input to our spouses (Proverbs 31:26) with a "wish list" if asked...

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Leilana ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the things I remember about being separated and on my own was it got to be very comfortable. It was just me and my God. I was safe from my H's emotional, mental, financial, verbal abuse. I was financially secure. There was no risk, really. It was a very peaceful, beautiful place to be. I sometimes really miss those days! And, yes, it was wonderful not being "adversaries" with my H for the first time. And to not "police" someone, not have to negotiate everything...so relaxing!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, this is just where I am now.

It is the first time in almost 20 years that I have had a safe, peaceful environment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But if he asks what he can do...I think having a positive measureable list of SUGGESTIONS would be more helpful than one with, as you call it negative conditions.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, should he ask, I want to be clear.

I know he is not in a position to support us, so I won't quit my job, and my job requires me to live here.
He could stay here, but for the winter I think he will stay at the house.

I think this is a time for him to be alone to connect with God, and to sort himself out.

He was so young when we got married. He has never really been on his own, and I think he needs a time of personal growth. this past year has been about him having freedom for the first time. He was like a kid in a candy store, doing whatever he wanted.

I think he has had got it out of his system and that he might be ready to act like a grown up now.

As for me, I am content to take this slow.

I have been for counseling. We both have. In previous years the consensus was that I should leave him or have him charged with domestic abuse, which would result in him being forced to take anger management classes.

Now the consensus is that I am better off without him.

All were of the opinion that he is beyond help. I don't accept that. Nothing is to hard for God, no one is beyond his reach.
There is one place that he hasn't been to, that specialises in counseling families with violent men.

I will pray that he will seek them out.

Thankyou Leilana, for understanding where I am at.

Shul

Gentle,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let God restore the way He chooses to restore.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes.

I think I have been running ahead of myself, running ahead of God.

God knows what He is doing.

And I do trust Him.

And I will love my husband the way he is.


Shul

Leilana,

No, the standers forum is not on MB.
Here is the link.

www.jehovah-rophe.com

gentle

Yes, gentle, I checked it out. Very slow moving over there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think it is wonderful, to have a safe place to think and speak in the way that we do as believers...but I can't help but feel that the secular group could be missing out on something that might be a real blessing to them if we go somewhere where they may never tread.

One of the reasons I came to be a believer was because I knew a believer...got that exposure. Enough so that I chose to seek more about it on my own.

Without my firm belief that God was always with me, that I am loved, that He has a plan for me, I don't know how I would have gotten through all this. Twice. And I would definitely not have the peace and joy that I do now. And I really want that for anyone that goes through this nightmare experience that we all share.

I have no clue how people get through this betrayal/recovery business without a personal relationship with God...you know?

leilana

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it is wonderful, to have a safe place to think and speak in the way that we do as believers...but I can't help but feel that the secular group could be missing out on something that might be a real blessing to them if we go somewhere where they may never tread.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why I go to both forums. One is a safe place for us to support each other. I come here to post to the ones God leads me to. Our testimonies are powerful and encourage others. At the same time, we need a place to go where we have like minds to support ,encourage and pray for us.
Praying with liked mind believers is so important.

ECC 4:12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken

ECC 4:9 Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their work:

ECC 4:10 If one falls down,
his friend can help him up.
But pity the man who falls
and has no one to help him up!

MT 18:19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

MT 18:19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."


We need to pray with others that are in agreement with us. It is important that when we ask someone to pray for us that they are in agreement with us.
Prayers are powerful and effective. Some you ask to pray for you may have the best of intentions, but they may not be believeing as you are, they may not be on the same path when it comes to restoration. They may not have the same convictions you have. I had to learn to stop having some people pray for me. My sister was praying for God to bring another man into my life. To her this was the best thing to pray for me.

We do have to be careful.

gentle

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

gentle, I see. Yes, powerful and effective prayer is good. It's just the exclusivity that I am opposed to. You see recently, I, too, wanted to set up another forum outside of this one for believers dealing with our issues! I look at some of the threads on the forum and it breaks my heart the way it's gotten so off track from it's inception. But I was corrected by a wonderful sister in Christ, Cali, who pointed out to me that it would be a disservice to those who need our stories, our example, the most.

Maybe it's part of the purpose for going through what we believers go through. Who can know God's plan?

I do wish that there was another subforum on MB called something else besides Prayer Request for us believers. What it could be called, I'm not sure. Recovery in Christ? Recovery with God? The Christian Forum? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

All in all...I think it's nice to show others by example. How we handle things, our joy and peace, our continued FAITH in times of hardships. Even how and what we pray for.

Gentle...you don't honestly believe your sister's prayers for a new man in your life would be answered, do you? I mean, #1, it will only happen if it is in God's will for you, which we highly doubt that could be because of the way He views marriage...and #2, God will not hear the prayers of someone who is grieving the Holy Spirit. It is not a righteous prayer. I've only been a practicing Christian for a year now...but that was my understanding. Am I mistaken? I'm still learning.

Here is something wonderful that I'd like to share with you and Shul. Just got this recommendation from another beautiful sister in Christ, "Lor (Lor)", an oldtimer from the forum.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just came across a book called WHEN THE ONE YOU LOVE WANTS TO LEAVE by Donald R. Harvey and I've just scanned it, but it is very similar to MB, only with Biblical principles for why. And, in a couple places, like SF during separation, may even disagree. (No SF during separation because more likely than not it is for manipulation, not Godly principle.)

Quote:
it interferes with any possible reconciliation. Continued sexual activity serves to maintain fuzziness in the relationship, as opposed to clarity....Second continuing a sexual relaitnship with your husband helps maintain his comfort zone, thus distorting the reality of what he has done...He isn't fully experiencing the consequences of his actions and isn't in a position to resolve whether he wants to remain in the marriage or leav it.


Then he goes on to refute the arguments I personally used during our separations! This paragraph alone would have saved me a world of hurt.

It even has a couple checklists for husbands who WANT to come home...stuff I learned the very hard way.

Anyway, I know some of you are becoming part of couples ministry, take a look at this book.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you might find this useful.

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Leilana ]</small>